define Middle Class

[Mike.357]

I know I am not well off.  I am pretty sure I am not poor. I am blessed with a great job and know I am overpaid.   I work for the best man in the world.  I assume I give him value in what I do.  Or surely he would replace me. Or at least not pay me what he does,  I never have asked for money.  Hired on and had no clue what my pay rate was.  Like I said I work for a great man.  There is no one I have ever known I think more of than Bob.

 

So I read I should not pay more than thirty% of my income for housing. I damn well pay more than that for my mortgage and all that comes with it.

I cannot pay my mortgage with one pay check.  I have a 100K house (when I bought it), more than three acres wooded.  I have some debt but I manage. Great credit rating.  Banks want my business.  I contribute 8% to a 401K.  Got a few K in the bank.

 

I really thought I was solidly middle class,  Now from what i read I am pretty much considered poor

 

WTF?

 

what is middle class anymore?

[rugerla1]

I don't know, but one thing's for sure: It's being adjusted daily. I'm only 41 but I remember when I graduated I thought my Uncle was rich because he made $10/hr (small country town). I also remember thinking only a decade ago that someone making $50k/year didn't have a whole lot to worry about money wise. I believe the classes are dropping faster than most people realize. Unless someone doesn't go shopping or pay bills, I don't know how they don't see how broke they are.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Yeah, the more people Obama makes feel poor the more people will probably vote for him and his promises of turning the poor into middle class.

 

I have always said there needs to be poor and there needs to be rich as well as all those in the middle. If everyone made the same then we would all be living worse off than we do now. If tomorrow all the poor were given a million dollars then that would be the new poverty level with the liberals screaming they need more money from those who are not "poor".

 

Everyone has the same opportunity to not be poor but the lazy ones are the ones who are content with being poor so long as they can be lazy. I have seen trailers with a blue tarp covering the 1/2 that burned and there are still people living in it. Now you never see the car leave the driveway so they are content to live in a 1/2 burned house so long as they do not have to work.

 

Funny thing is all those programs designed to help the poor are actually programs to enslave, making them reliant upon their master to survive. The welfare programs couldn't be designed any better to enslave those the government wishes to control. ln exchange for a small amount of money those enslaved agree to give up any aspirations they might have for a better life. I know I would be pissed if I looked back at my life and realized I gave up my dreams for what amounted to less than minumum wage.

 

We have both worked hard our entire lives to get what we have. If they want to call us poor at least I know, in my heart, I worked for what I have and in my mind that makes me a richer person than anyone who was given any amount of money.

[Hershmeister]

Median houshold income in @50k/year

[runco]

Poor, Middle, and Rich are in the eye of the beholder.  We live, we function, we do just about everything, and you know what, when I walk into Walmart for a loaf of bread, and come out $100 later with other stuff that I don't really need, I consider myself well off.  I never think about my financial social status.  But I do work, don't want a dime from any government program.

[gl19gobang]

.40 S&W?

[Ugly]

It is all part of the plan to enslave us, otherwise what is happening in our daily lives with the cost of goods, fuel taxes etc would be talked about. The news mentions where the best gas prices are but they never mention why they are so high. It is starting to get to the point where people are getting to their limit. People are starting to snap and unleash their fury on the wrong people.
From what I've been reading, they want to get rid of the middle class, until we have change for the better, it'll keep getting worse.

[Jonnin]

sounds middle class to me... those are the things that define it...  things like

 

- having a mortgage, and paying it

- having a car

- having land is a plus, not required

- having a retirement at all

- having some in the bank for emergencies

- having insurance (the whole package, home, health, car, etc)

- having a job that has decent pay, benefits, and requires more than a high school education to perform

- not living hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck to the point that anything going wrong in your life would result in an immediate financial crisis.  

to name a few. 

 

 TN is an anomaly.  It is considered to be a "poor" state due to median income and education level, yet people here can do very, very well on a low income due to cost of living being very low.   A job here that will barely pay the rent in atlanta can get you a good sized home, car, and a solid lifestyle.

[jhc77]

.40 S&W?

Middle for me then  :surrender:

[peejman]

sounds middle class to me... those are the things that define it...  things like

 

- having a mortgage, and paying it

- having a car

- having land is a plus, not required

- having a retirement at all

- having some in the bank for emergencies

- having insurance (the whole package, home, health, car, etc)

- having a job that has decent pay, benefits, and requires more than a high school education to perform

- not living hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck to the point that anything going wrong in your life would result in an immediate financial crisis.  

to name a few. 

 

 TN is an anomaly.  It is considered to be a "poor" state due to median income and education level, yet people here can do very, very well on a low income due to cost of living being very low.   A job here that will barely pay the rent in atlanta can get you a good sized home, car, and a solid lifestyle.

 

 

Pretty much all of this. 

 

Mike, sounds like you have a great job and a good life.  When I started this job, it had a pretty strong "family" vibe where the big boss knew everyone's name.  Over the past 7 years it's quickly transitioned to just another faceless corporation, and I'm one of the minions.  That sucks big ones as that's exactly what I was trying to escape when I quit my prior job. 

 

Based on the recent salary survey I saw, I'm below the 25th percentile in gross pay and that's rather depressing.  I'm sure that's significantly location based, but still....  

 

We live a modest life on my modest income.  The only debt I have is my mortgage, and I wish I'd spent 15% less on that.  If I lost my job, we could make it 3-5 months on cash savings before having to raid the 401k.  I feed, clothe, and house the wife and kids and occasionally have a little extra cash for a few toys.  In the grand scheme, it ain't bad. 

[A.J. Holst]

If the master plan is to eliminate the middle class we set the stage for the new aristocracy created by greed, power, influence and money "balanced" against the rest of us in serfdom, last time I checked, this program didn't work out to well for the tzars...

I saw a late model S class Benz with an Obama bumper sticker - didn't the owner understand that "lifting up the poor" means they should be entitled to driving a Benz too?

The aristocracy of pull better be careful, the mob they have pandered to has been fed and they will want more since they have needs...and they ain't going to be satisfied with free bread and alms. Edited July 9, 2014 by Gotthegoods

[monkeylizard]

I don't know what middle class is, but "rich" is anyone making more than me. :D

[Ted S.]

Too many definitions.

 

As much as I don't like government work, this pdf does a decent job of summarizing the "middle class" definition problem:

 

http://www.commerce.gov/sites/default/files/documents/migrated/Middle%20Class%20Report.pdf

 

EDIT: I know this is an old article (2007), but I think it still does a great job putting "poor" in perspective for Americans:

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/08/how-poor-are-americas-poor-examining-the-plague-of-poverty-in-america

 

I think tend to think "middle class" is more of a talking point or image thing in this country, because even the poor people in this country are much better off than most people in the world.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Ted S.

[KaNaPaPi]

Income is ABOVE the poverty line, but below $250,000 per family. I know "some" will argue that the upper limit is RICH.

Edited July 9, 2014 by KaNaPaPi

[Ted S.]

EDIT: I know this is an old article (2007), but I think it still does a great job putting "poor" in perspective for Americans:

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/08/how-poor-are-americas-poor-examining-the-plague-of-poverty-in-america

 

I think tend to think "middle class" is more of a talking point or image thing in this country, because even the poor people in this country are much better off than most people in the world.

 

A more up to date article on what is "poor" in America:

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty?query=Air+Conditioning+Cable+TV+and+an+Xbox:+What+is+Poverty+in+the+United+States+Today

[NoBanStan]

I always have steady work, live within my means, pay the bills on time and still have some money to spoil my kids. Statistics or no, I would say that's middle class.

[Lowpower]

Rant on!!!

 

I'm a 2%'r.   98% of my wages go to taxes.  

 

The problem is the Gov't wants the taxes so they can spend, spend, spend but are rapidly running out of people who can pay taxes.

 

People used to go to school and either graduate from 12 grade or go on to college and graduate. Those that graduated from High School

tended to work more blue collar hands on, OJT jobs which were somewhat protected from Company abuse by Unions. 

 

The people in Unions became sort of a mini Gov't wanting more and more. At some point they voted themselves out of business by asking for 

more than the Company could afford to pay so they went overseas for the same products built more cheaply. 

 

Remember any major Corp has one God. The Stock Holder. To maintain good standing with the ones holding the shares the Corp has to continue to promise

more dividends to keep the share holders. At some point there is nothing more in the assembly line that the Corp can cut but if they can double up workloads

for employees.  Less employees means more money to promise to share holders. This placates the share holder for a year or two then the Corp has figure out what to 

do next since the income remains the same. Benefits go next. Then some operations go offshore like IT to India. A quarter the price for something that can be done over the 

internet. They get a few more years for the share holders. At some point it's all over and the owners close up shop. 

 

Ref. the college grads...they get higher paying jobs usually get scooped up by the major corporations. Their thinking is those grads took the extra time and effort to 

stay in school and continue learning skills they will need in the work place. Those folks are generally salaried iso hourly. They offer benefits in lieu of Unions. Those 

benefits are somewhat the same as Union work without the dues.  Pension, Health Care, Vacation, Holidays, Annual Bonus pay, etc. All of these benefits come out of

the Company's bottom line.

 

A quick look back around 40 years or so. A college education averaged 10-15K a year, living on campus. Less if you stayed home. Community colleges were a lot less. 

The high end colleges cost quite a bit more. Some folks were never meant to go to college but were able to make a fair living and provide for their family and retirement 

if they worked hard, union or not.  Prices have gone up...ALOT! Lots of reasons...greed. And college professors are the people cause the problem. It is all economics now.

And with Tenure you can't get rid of the bad apples. And those are the same bad apples that are preaching politics to your kids. I'd say 905 of the college teachers are

beelding heart liberals because it keeps them in their jobs.

 

Enter the liberal Gov't. 

Healthcare - offered to anyone. No more benefits for working for a Company. You pay.

Pensions - no longer offered. Garbage 401K's and portable pension funds are the new pension. It raises the question who manages your 401K? At what price? If you do, where do you get the time to learn what funds to chose and then have the time to manage it? This benefit costs the Corp but cuts into your money saved. Hmmmmm...

Minimum Wage - This was originally meant to give school kids a means of learning about working. They're trying to get $10 an hour and really want to push for $15. CA min wages are $9.

Food Stamps - A friends sister in TX got a job at WalMart and they gave her the food stamp paperwork to fill out. All of the stores are doing it.

Immigration Reform - Votes for Democrats from illegal aliens. Need I say more.

Savings Interest?  Pretty much gone right? The Gov't bailed out the Banks so they don't need your money.

Welfare Queens - The more un-fathered kids you have the more money you make off taxpayers without having to work for a living.

Assisted living - CA gives you money to help pay for your housing. 

Gas coupons - they're coming.

Old age and Retirement - City Gov't pensions although small included health for spouses. Now is the pension holder dies the spouse has nothing (Obamacare) she can afford.

Gas Prices - unregulated by the Gov't as long as they get their cut. A bird farts in Aruba and gas prices go up. 

Ilegal kids crossing the border - Turn them back around. 

Illegal aliens living in America are protesting in the streets? Round them up and send they back.

Mil Vets - Our Gov't ensures the rest of the world is cared for before they worry about our vets. Why else are there org's to help our vets?

Inflation -  Dbl Digit is here now. Don;t let anyone fool you.

College? - If an lazy bum can make the equivalent of 50K per yearwhy would some want to pay $200-300K to go to college to compete for McDonalds jobs?

Therre is no incentive to work any more.

I am a middle class worker. I am a Baby Boomer. When I retire I will probably be the last of the pensioners left in America. 

Future welfare queens - Don;t forget the young school girls in CT and TN who made a pact to have babies....Amazing.

 

Until the people in Washington are voted out of office what you are seeing now will continue.

 

Whats even more pitiful is what happens when the money runs out? If people make $10 an hour, get a cost of living allowance, food stamps and gas coupons they will be effectively 

making around 50K per year but will have no money. No retirement, horrible health care, businesses closing at a high rate. Businesses being bought up by other Countries. Believe me 

when I say most of the meats will be coming from China very soon as are most products.

 

You will end up at the mercy of the Gov't. History shows that Gov'ts have no mercy except to themselves. What happens when they can no longer collect taxes because there isn't

any money to collect.

 

The list goes on. Our Gov't uses typical lawyer court room arguments.  "if it sounds right then it must be so".  

However, if it smells like poop then it probably is. 

 

God is gone form America. Sodom and Gomorrah is here, now and the American People is allowing it to happen.  Look at Mississippi. The Democrats crossed 

line to vote for the standing Republican Senator because he is useless rather than have a real Republican get in office and do something for America. And many 

Republican's allowed it to happen. How messed up is that? 

 

I'm going to enjoy my retirement but I really feel bad for the folks with nothing to look forward to. You can call them the X,Y or Z generation or whatever but they're 

all screwed until they wake up vote out these very, very bad politicians currently in Office. All of them need to go.Our Gov't needs a house cleaning. Get the word out 

and lets vote em out of Office.

 

Rant off.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Lowpower

[E4 No More]

If you define it then you must answer to it, and the politicians don't ever want to answer to anything. By keeping it subjective then they can make you believe what they want. "The middle class is shrinking!" Well, duh, it's growing too. It's similar to arguing what the definition of the word "is" is.

[Mike.357]

according to USA Today I am a failure.

 

My house is no where near worth 275K, I need to trade my truck for a 4X4 and and among my other failures I need to allot for a near 5K vacation.

http://www.newser.com/story/190466/it-costs-130k-to-live-the-american-dream.html

 

I guess all I can do is to try to pay my bills on time, be the best grandfather and husband I can be and try to be a stand up guy.  I will never meet the other standards

[Jonnin]

according to USA Today I am a failure.

 

My house is no where near worth 275K, I need to trade my truck for a 4X4 and and among my other failures I need to allot for a near 5K vacation.

http://www.newser.com/story/190466/it-costs-130k-to-live-the-american-dream.html

 

I guess all I can do is to try to pay my bills on time, be the best grandfather and husband I can be and try to be a stand up guy.  I will never meet the other standards

 

Again, its a TN thing.  Your home in another country like new york city is probably worth over 1 million, maybe more than 2.  Here, its worth a fraction of that.  USA today spans the USA and averages the values.  Its why the 250k limit is senseless...  250k here is doing darn well, while in other places, its not really impressive due to the 2 million dollar mortgage...  I mean, run the numbers on your link.  The grocery bill on that page would feed my family for 5 years or more -- its OVER 1000 bucks a MONTH for FOOD.  I spend  at most 200, and that is a bad month where I need expensive cleaning supplies or other nonfood items.  3k for cell phone and internet?  I spend less than 1/2 that for such services, though I dont do a lot of TV and my phone is cheap, those are choices because I prefer to buy guns and ammo (which didnt make the list).  The vehicle cost is as if you bought a car every 2 years, not every 10 as is much more common amongst the middle class.  My car is a 2005 and has tons of life left in it.   It cost like $1000 per year.  The list goes on and on... that breakdown is simply moronic.

 

It may be ok for the "dream" but dream on.   Even if you could afford it, would you buy a car every 2 years, and do a yearly 5k vacation, and eat at ruth chris every night to run up the grocery bill?   No, only the most goofy rock-star rich do that crap.  Real middle class people do not waste money like that.  Heck, I went to school with the kids of multi-millionaires and they didn't do that crap -- its why they have money.   Ever seen the really stupid rich that spend themselves into poverty, like N. Cage?   That is the minority... most have more sense.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Jonnin

[E4 No More]

My house in Lavergne is 1,633 sqft and is currently valued below what I paid for it at $135,000. An apartment in San Francisco of the same square footage in 2010 was going for $3,000,000 and they bragged about it! Screw these reports!

[peejman]

according to USA Today I am a failure.

 

My house is no where near worth 275K, I need to trade my truck for a 4X4 and and among my other failures I need to allot for a near 5K vacation.

http://www.newser.com/story/190466/it-costs-130k-to-live-the-american-dream.html

 

I guess all I can do is to try to pay my bills on time, be the best grandfather and husband I can be and try to be a stand up guy.  I will never meet the other standards

 

 

You and me both.  But I agree with what Jonin says too, they're surveying people in big cities.  A $200,000 house here would cost 3-5x more in the northeast or and even more on the west coast.  While I do own a 4wd SUV, it's 10 years old and I paid cash for it used.  $5k for a vacation?  In my wife's dreams.  She's desperate to take the kids to Disney, which would be in the $4k range for a week.  We're planning to go back to HHI for less than half that in the fall. 

[RED333]

I am happy where I am, house and land paid for, cars and trucks paid for.

Credit card paid EVERY MONTH, money put back, yep I am happy.

[RobertNashville]

I know I am not well off.  I am pretty sure I am not poor. I am blessed with a great job and know I am overpaid.   I work for the best man in the world.  I assume I give him value in what I do.  Or surely he would replace me. Or at least not pay me what he does,  I never have asked for money.  Hired on and had no clue what my pay rate was.  Like I said I work for a great man.  There is no one I have ever known I think more of than Bob.

 

So I read I should not pay more than thirty% of my income for housing. I damn well pay more than that for my mortgage and all that comes with it.

I cannot pay my mortgage with one pay check.  I have a 100K house (when I bought it), more than three acres wooded.  I have some debt but I manage. Great credit rating.  Banks want my business.  I contribute 8% to a 401K.  Got a few K in the bank.

 

I really thought I was solidly middle class,  Now from what i read I am pretty much considered poor

 

WTF?

 

what is middle class anymore?

The percentage of income that goes toward housing is not a magic figure. The point is that if you are spending more than 25-30% of your net income toward housing then you likely won't have enough left over for other necessities; especially the necessity of saving (both for emergencies and for retirement).  Whether you are middle class or not is not  really the point, in my opinion...for me the question is if you are happy where you are financially (note; "happy" in this context doesn't mean complacent). If you are comfortable where you are (even if you want to do better), meeting your basic needs and a few "wants" and are saving enough then what difference does a label make?

 

[JPR1959]

The bottom line for me is pretty simple.  I feel I will have to work until the day that I die regardless of what someone else thinks.  My house is not worth what I paid for it 9 years ago, my 401K has survived 3 recessions in 7 years, I make less than I did 10 years ago, and my current pay raises don't keep up with my increase in medical insurance much less the cost of living.  I'm screwed, but so are a lot of other people.