Army wants a harder-hitting pistol

[The Legion]

This is an interesting article I found today which not only talks about the Army wanting to change from the 9mm to a more powerful handgun, but also has an interesting discussion about the .40 S&W round later in the article.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/07/03/army-wants-harder-hitting-pistol/?intcmp=features

[Steelharp]

You're a couple hours behind. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/79947-a-1911-thats-uglier-than-a-glock/

[Dolomite_supafly]

They should adopt the M45A1 and piss the Marine Corps off.

 

They should go back to the 45 ACP if they are going to keep using FMJs. And personally, regardless of caliber, they should use some sort of expanding bullet.

[nightrunner]

Or just go 5.7x28mmFNH Edited July 4, 2014 by nightrunner

[bersaguy]

I don't know why the ever moved away from the 45 ACP. Stupid does as stupid is I guess. The 45 worked for them very well for many years. "If it ain't broke you don't fix it."............................jmho      Then there is always the 7.62x25 like the Russian Tokarev .....................jmho

Edited July 4, 2014 by bersaguy

[Dolomite_supafly]

Now the 7.62x25 Tokarev is an amazing round. It is one of only a handful of pistol calibers that can defeat a kevlar helmet. It defeat steel and glass better than most other calibers. And being a bottle neck cartridge the reliability will be a lot higher. And magazine capacities are the same as with 9mm. Imagine a modern defensive pistol loaded with 16 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev, I think it would outperform 95% of all other calibers out there. If someone would produce a modern handgun in the caliber I would buy it immediately and start carrying it.

 

If adopted by the Army it would also eliminate the biggest complaint of the 45 and that is the fact females can shoot it just as well as males. That was the biggest reason why the Army adopted the 9mm, females were complaining about not being able to shoot the 1911 as well as males and therefore affected qualification, promotions etc.

 

What is even more amazing is the 7.62x25 Tokarev has been in existence for at least 75 years in its current form. And as the 30 Mauser it is close to 100 years old.

 

I am probably the biggest fan of the caliber and I am honestly surprised you cannot buy a modern handgun in the caliber.

[three5seven]

Not a good sign for Beretta. And just right after they decided to move to TN. 

[SonnyCrockett]

How much firefighting does the Army do with their side arm?

 

My guess........not much

[runco]

I would think for most handgun military contracts, the manufacturer only covers the overhead cost, and not much else, whereas the civilian business is the bread and butter in profit!  So Beretta is probably not sweating this, unless its civilian market caves, and in my view, Beretta even with its current US contract, is not a top 5 civilian preferred gun! 

[peejman]

I would think for most handgun military contracts, the manufacturer only covers the overhead cost, and not much else, whereas the civilian business is the bread and butter in profit! So Beretta is probably not sweating this, unless its civilian market caves, and in my view, Beretta even with its current US contract, is not a top 5 civilian preferred gun!

Not make money selling stuff to the government? Now that's funny! :D Edited July 4, 2014 by peejman

[Garufa]

And less than two years ago the Army awarded a contract for up to 100,000 new M9's.

[DaveTN]

How long did it take for the M9 to be mainstream when they switched over to it?

How many handguns does the military purchase a year?

Don’t all branches of the military use the same handgun (other than some SF units)? I mean “The Army” isn’t going to switch over to another weapon unless all the military does...Right?

[Will Carry]

  I think the 45acp would be a better choice than the 9mm.  It has been effective I the past.

[DaveTN]

While they are at it they need to get rid of that lame azz .223 also. The .308 is a far superior round to the 223 in making the opponent unable or unwilling to fire his weapon at you.

.223 is for punching paper or hunting varmints.

I truly think its sad that many of us have better battle rifles than our military that is facing the enemy in battle.

[austin7.62]

It'd be cool if they went .357 Sig. 

[austin7.62]

Now the 7.62x25 Tokarev is an amazing round. It is one of only a handful of pistol calibers that can defeat a kevlar helmet. It defeat steel and glass better than most other calibers. And being a bottle neck cartridge the reliability will be a lot higher. And magazine capacities are the same as with 9mm. Imagine a modern defensive pistol loaded with 16 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev, I think it would outperform 95% of all other calibers out there. If someone would produce a modern handgun in the caliber I would buy it immediately and start carrying it.

 

If adopted by the Army it would also eliminate the biggest complaint of the 45 and that is the fact females can shoot it just as well as males. That was the biggest reason why the Army adopted the 9mm, females were complaining about not being able to shoot the 1911 as well as males and therefore affected qualification, promotions etc.

 

What is even more amazing is the 7.62x25 Tokarev has been in existence for at least 75 years in its current form. And as the 30 Mauser it is close to 100 years old.

 

I am probably the biggest fan of the caliber and I am honestly surprised you cannot buy a modern handgun in the caliber.

Do you reload for x25, Dolomite?

[UncleJak]

I want a glock in 7.62x25! Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[Erik88]

Question: What happens to all the old rifles and handguns the military is done with? Do they sell/give them to other countries? I never see them for sale, only police trade ins.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Do you reload for x25, Dolomite?

I did when I had a gun chambered in it but I no longer have a gun.

[DaveTN]

Question: What happens to all the old rifles and handguns the military is done with? Do they sell/give them to other countries? I never see them for sale, only police trade ins.

If they aren’t fit for duty handguns are destroyed. I’ve heard rumors that M14’s and M16’s have been converted to semi-auto and donated to Police Departments. But I don’t know that for sure.

Although the M4 is more desirable the M16 is still a functional battle rifle (if you are okay with .223), we (taxpayers) paid for those M16’s and the government should be required to keep them in the event we would need them, as long as they are functional and safe.

[bersaguy]

Now the 7.62x25 Tokarev is an amazing round. It is one of only a handful of pistol calibers that can defeat a kevlar helmet. It defeat steel and glass better than most other calibers. And being a bottle neck cartridge the reliability will be a lot higher. And magazine capacities are the same as with 9mm. Imagine a modern defensive pistol loaded with 16 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev, I think it would outperform 95% of all other calibers out there. If someone would produce a modern handgun in the caliber I would buy it immediately and start carrying it.

 

If adopted by the Army it would also eliminate the biggest complaint of the 45 and that is the fact females can shoot it just as well as males. That was the biggest reason why the Army adopted the 9mm, females were complaining about not being able to shoot the 1911 as well as males and therefore affected qualification, promotions etc.

 

What is even more amazing is the 7.62x25 Tokarev has been in existence for at least 75 years in its current form. And as the 30 Mauser it is close to 100 years old.

 

I am probably the biggest fan of the caliber and I am honestly surprised you cannot buy a modern handgun in the caliber.

I have a buddy that owns two Tokarev's and he also shoots a couple Colt 45 ACPs he has and you can definitely tell when he switches to the Tokarev in the range even wearing good muffs. He is very accurate with both of to Tokarev's and said is by far the most enjoyable gun he owns to shoot. You can also tell when he goes from shooting the new 7.62x25 ammo verses the ammo he bought several years back in old Russian military loads.................jmho 

[tnhawk]

The Army had a harder-hitting pistol for many years. Time to go back to the 45 acp and 7.62 rifle.

[daddyo]

You mean they don't use .380?

[eRay]

If they aren’t fit for duty handguns are destroyed. I’ve heard rumors that M14’s and M16’s have been converted to semi-auto and donated to Police Departments. But I don’t know that for sure.

Although the M4 is more desirable the M16 is still a functional battle rifle (if you are okay with .223), we (taxpayers) paid for those M16’s and the government should be required to keep them in the event we would need them, as long as they are functional and safe.

 

The M16's have been donated to police departments without converting to semi-automatic.

[K191145]

From the artical:

"I talked to a Chicago cop that shot a guy eight times with a .45 to kill him and that was a 230 grain Hydra-Shok," Langdon said. "And that guy now carries a 9mm …he realized that handgun bullets suck. "You have to shoot people a lot with a handgun."

8 times? It doesn't say "where" he shot the guy though. It's hard to imagine, even someone hyped up on meth or crack not going down if he were shot a few times in the lungs, it's obvious the cop didn't get a heart shot. It's definatly shot placement with any caliber. I know the old saying that a hit with a 9mm is better than a miss with a .45 which is true but I believe a hit with a .45 is better than a hit with a 9mm, but hey, i've never been shot back at in a gun fight so there's probably no telling what I would hit. I'm probably just brainwashed from years of reading and hearing that the .45 is more effective than the 9mm and since the military has to use hardball, issue them all Glock 21s.