Metro PD Encounter

[jtmaze]

[quote name="teecro" post="1164890" timestamp="1404386732"]This is not surprising at all as most LEO are not really gun people at all and are simply not all that familiar with the 1911 and that it is likely more safe C&L than their dept issue Glock.....[/quote] I would have corrected the officer through his superiors. Especially if they were rude to be. JTM We the People of the United States, in order to form a more Perfect Union......

[BLACKVANDRIVER]

My two cents. For those of you who know me personally and have seen our previous BIG BLACK VAN. I screamed of please pull me over and harass me. Lots of tattoos and a very suspicious off road attack vehicle looking blacked out van.

 

Anyways, I was pulled over 6 times in the first 3 months of living in TN and every time I informed the officer that I was a card holder and was armed and what position the weapon was at. EVERY stop went very well and even got  a few welcome to TN and even one "I am sorry for pulling you over".

 

Long story short on that one. NV plate that has the "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign on it is part black and part white. He pulled me over to having a "broken" incomplete tag.  I let him know I was armed and had permits from several states that TN honors. He had me step out to show me and I pointed out that it was not broken but a 50/50 split in color and the look on his face was priceless! He was very apologetic and sent me on my way. 

 

The last time I was  stopped was for a headlight out. It had went out that day and didn't have time to change it and I was still working at D&T Arms. We closed the shop and headed home. Had lots of ammo, 2 AR's several hand guns and my FN FAL in the back. Got stopped by metro and did as usual inform of card holder and  of  every weapon I had in the suv and the officer was very nice and never once gave me a lick of trouble about the arms I had in back of my Tahoe he said get it fixed and back to the house I went. 

 

I know we are not obligated to inform. But for me it makes that stop go so much easier!

[Fallguy]

I agree. And there may be a problem if an Officer said that and his department supported it.

But many people will feel that the Officer has done something wrong if they are disarmed. Is it something the Officer should worry about? Well, if something tells them they should disarm someone carrying a deadly weapon on a traffic stop, and they ignore that due to some fear of repercussions; they probably should find a different line of work.
 
And the state legislature took away that right.

 

 

Agree on both points.

 

That is why I think "he who is not to be named" is right about 39-17-1307 being unconstitutional, although he went about trying to prove it the wrong way.

[tnguy]

If an Officer is violating some Tennessee law or Department policy by disarming you; you have recourse after you are released from the stop.

After you are dead, have been raped or received brain damage from a beating. And who do you go to for recourse if it was a cop impersonator?

Failure to comply with Officers orders to either disarm or allow him to disarm you could escalate into something more than a simple traffic stop.

Which is a major part of why attempted disarmament should be avoided except for very good reason.

[DaveTN]

After you are dead, have been raped or received brain damage from a beating.

I fail to see the logic here. If I were stopping a suspected DUI my first question would be “Sir, do you have any weapons?” Because next I would be having you step out of the vehicle. Are we then going to have a discussion about whether or not I’m a real cop? The fake cops that were working this area where at that point, pointing guns at you.

If you think it’s not a real squad car behind you, drive normally and call 911. They will tell you immediately if it’s a real cop.
 

And who do you go to for recourse if it was a cop impersonator?

Well if you are the victim of an armed robbery it only has a few outcomes. You are dead, you are injured and robbed, or they are dead.
 

Which is a major part of why attempted disarmament should be avoided except for very good reason.

I think by most Officers it would not even be an issue unless they see something that makes them have a good reason.

[tnhawk]

.... And who do you go to for recourse if it was a cop impersonator?....

You can get a jailhouse lawyer and see a judge impersonator, who will tell you that you have absolutely no case.

[TMF]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1165571" timestamp="1404576038"] I think by most Officers it would not even be an issue unless they see something that makes them have a good reason.[/quote] I recall a thread here where a TGO LEO said he disarms every lawfully armed person he stops. His argument being that it is his right to do so under the law. I don't believe he is the only LEO that thinks this way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveTN]

I recall a thread here where a TGO LEO said he disarms every lawfully armed person he stops. His argument being that it is his right to do so under the law. I don't believe he is the only LEO that thinks this way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow I bet he took some heat. I remember someone saying that they got stopped by a Park Ranger (I think) and they told him they disarm everyone, but haven’t been around when a forum LEO said they do. Did the thread get locked?

I don’t doubt that there are Officers that disarm everyone they stop, but I would say it’s rare and in a state that doesn’t recognize carry as a right; I doubt there is much recourse other than making a citizens complaint to their department and seeing if Command Officers deal with it. Edited July 5, 2014 by DaveTN

[TMF]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1165652" timestamp="1404592641"]Wow I bet he took some heat. I remember someone saying that they got stopped by a Park Ranger (I think) and they told him they disarm everyone, but haven’t been around when a forum LEO said they do. Did the thread get locked? [/quote] Don't remember. I just remember taking issue with that policy and about a half dozen people losing their minds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tnguy]

I fail to see the logic here. If I were stopping a suspected DUI my first question would be “Sir, do you have any weapons?” Because next I would be having you step out of the vehicle. Are we then going to have a discussion about whether or not I’m a real cop? The fake cops that were working this area where at that point, pointing guns at you.

If you think it’s not a real squad car behind you, drive normally and call 911. They will tell you immediately if it’s a real cop.
 
Well if you are the victim of an armed robbery it only has a few outcomes. You are dead, you are injured and robbed, or they are dead.
 
I think by most Officers it would not even be an issue unless they see something that makes them have a good reason.

Well, with DUI we're getting into the whole "drunk in charge of a weapon" thing which is a whole crime to itself.

Your last line is really the point but several comments in this thread have indicated that that isn't always the case. Which is what my comment addresses.

[JayC]

That's just not true anymore, the legislature restored that right for every law abiding adult citizen to carry a loaded firearm in their car.  It's an exception to 39-17-1307, not a defense such as having a permit 39-17-1308.

 

I never said they can't disarm you with valid cause, only they can't use 39-17-1351(t) to disarm you because they feel like it.  Officers can't come into your home to take a report on a car breakin and confiscate your firearms in their squad car while taking the report...  This change basically treats your car the same.

 

Their going to need a good reason to disarm people..  general 'officer safety' excuses currently used by some departments with permit holders won't hold water imho since 39-17-1351(t) doesn't apply to legally armed non-permit holders.

 

And the state legislature took away that right.

 

[bird333]

How do you get the gun from your house to your car?

[DaveTN]

How do you get the gun from your house to your car?

Walk

If you have to walk off your property the gun and magazine would have to be unloaded. Edited July 7, 2014 by DaveTN

[bird333]

That's just not true anymore, the legislature restored that right for every law abiding adult citizen to carry a loaded firearm in their car.  It's an exception to 39-17-1307, not a defense such as having a permit 39-17-1308.

 

 

How do you get the gun from your house to your car?

[Fallguy]

How do you get the gun from your house to your car?

 

As long as you are on your property it doesn't make a difference. 

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

Just my two cents...I THINK, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that if your license is run and you have an HCP, that will show up as well. Not sure how that correlates to running the plate before an interaction. FWIW, me personally, if I was carrying my approach would be what several others have stated....two hands on the wheel, and when asked for license and registration it would be..."Sir, before I move my hands, I have an HCP, the weapon is on my right hip by my wallet, how would you like to proceed?"

[teecro]

Just my two cents...I THINK, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that if your license is run and you have an HCP, that will show up as well. Not sure how that correlates to running the plate before an interaction. FWIW, me personally, if I was carrying my approach would be what several others have stated....two hands on the wheel, and when asked for license and registration it would be..."Sir, before I move my hands, I have an HCP, the weapon is on my right hip by my wallet, how would you like to proceed?"

 

If the constitution rocks why are you even disclosing? With no duty to disclose and with TN seeing fit to make legal to carry in car without permit disclosure unless asked is all but a mote point.... I'm all for being polite during an encounter with LEO but I'm not going to disclose any personnel info that I'm not obligated to give unless asked. 

[JayC]

There is a defense in 39-17-1308 for carrying a loaded firearm on your property, residence, or place of business.  If for some reason, you can move the firearm from your residence to your car via the popular but often unused 39-17-1308(a)(4) - "Incident to ...  other lawful activity"

 

How do you get the gun from your house to your car?

 

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

If the constitution rocks why are you even disclosing? With no duty to disclose and with TN seeing fit to make legal to carry in car without permit disclosure unless asked is all but a mote point.... I'm all for being polite during an encounter with LEO but I'm not going to disclose any personnel info that I'm not obligated to give unless asked.

Im disclosing not because i have to but because im dealing with another human being and i believe that keeping stress levels to a minimum is a good thing. Further, imo it is just NOT a good idea to be reaching into an area where your weapon is when dealing with LE. If they see it, at the very least there is going to be a spike in tensions, a one way discussion, and you are quite likely to get drawn down on...or worse.

[teecro]

Im disclosing not because i have to but because im dealing with another human being and i believe that keeping stress levels to a minimum is a good thing. Further, imo it is just NOT a good idea to be reaching into an area where your weapon is when dealing with LE. If they see it, at the very least there is going to be a spike in tensions, a one way discussion, and you are quite likely to get drawn down on...or worse.

 

Understood; everyone has their reasons for what they do... I'm 50 and I've had many interactions with LEO over the years with most of them being quite pleasant; but I don't keep a gun in my wallet or glove box either....  :2cents:

[JPS]

two hands on the wheel, and when asked for license and registration it would be..."Sir, before I move my hands, I have an HCP, the weapon is on my right hip by my wallet, how would you like to proceed?"

 

This is also my response. 

Why would you not disclose?  I guess you run the risk of a bad apple cop taking advantage of it, but seriously, how probable is that?  I'd much rather avoid any issues by letting them know up front that I'm a responsible permit-carrying citizen who would really like to avoid any hassles/tickets.

[BBill_TN]

Not to sound like I get pulled over much, but I seemed to have a rash of headlight issues with both my car and my gf's vehicle recently.

Probably pretty easy to figure out that there might be a gun in my car with the NRA tag, but no conspicuous markings on her car.

Each time I have chosen to disclose and each time was thanked for it. I said to the officer "You're welcome." And "that I know that TN is not a must disclose state, but I thought it was important that we were on the same page."

So in effect, should reinforce that knowlege for maybe their next stop that didn't disclose.

All good interactions by the way.

[Q-tip]

This is also my response. 

Why would you not disclose?  I guess you run the risk of a bad apple cop taking advantage of it, but seriously, how probable is that?  I'd much rather avoid any issues by letting them know up front that I'm a responsible permit-carrying citizen who would really like to avoid any hassles/tickets.

I prefer not to disclose because it has nothing to do with why I was stopped, I'm not going to tell him about all the stuff in my car that's not a danger to him.

 

I don't see a difference in telling him I have a gun and telling him about my grandma's toe fungus. Neither are relevant to why I was stopped. 

[oh58driver]

I was recently pulled over by a State Trooper. My tag was 1 day overdue, my fault but an honest mistake. 

His first sentence was " Good Morning.  Do you have your weapon today?"

"Yes Sir"

"Well just don't go for it" 

I tried to hand him my HCP with my DL and he said " Thanks but not necessary."

Short pleasant stop. 

[deadshot401]

There is no requirement under TN law to answer a police officers questions.  You're just not allowed to lie to them.  If they ask to see your HCP you must display it to them on request.

 

Frankly this officer better get his big boy pants on, because starting in July all law abiding citizens can carry a loaded gun in their car, they won't have an HCP to show, and they're not under any obligation to inform they have a firearm in the vehicle.

 

 

And it would behoove those unlicensed carriers to inform the officer about the weapon. If they don't and he spots it, they will be looking down the business end of his gun. Traffic stops are very dangerous for a police officer and if they are on top of their game, they're always on the lookout for potential threats. 

 

Personally the only interaction I've had with a TN Leo was at a DUI check point. I had my DL and HCP out and my window down as the THP Officer approached. We exchanged the usual howdy's and I handed the licenses to him. He asked where my gun was and I verbally gave him the location. He handed the licenses back with a have a nice day and waived me through.

 

As a retired LEO it's my experience things just go smoother if you inform the officer upfront that you are in possession of a gun.