Metro PD Encounter

[blizzard]

What would be the legal definition of "Motor Vehicle" be? Would it be only a car or truck? Would a motorcycle with saddle bags qualify as a
"Motor Vehicle" therefore allowing the legal carrying of a loaded weapon under the new law?

[Oh Shoot]

What would be the legal definition of "Motor Vehicle" be? Would it be only a car or truck? Would a motorcycle with saddle bags qualify as a
"Motor Vehicle" therefore allowing the legal carrying of a loaded weapon under the new law?

 

Tennessee Code Annotated at:

 

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

 

"55-1-103.  "Autocycle," "motor bicycle," "motor vehicle," "motorcycle", "vehicle" and "freight motor vehicle" defined.

  (a) "Autocycle" means an enclosed motorcycle that is equipped with safety belts, rollbar, windshield, wipers, steering wheel, and equipment otherwise required on a motorcycle, and which has not more than three (3) wheels in contact with the roadway at any one (1) time.

( b ) "Motor bicycle" means a motorized bicycle as defined in § 55-8-101.

( c ) "Motor vehicle" means every vehicle that is self-propelled, excluding motorized bicycles and every vehicle that is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires. "Motor vehicle" means any low speed vehicle, or medium speed vehicle as defined in this section. "Motor vehicle" means any mobile home or house trailer as defined in § 55-1-105.

(d) "Motorcycle" means every motor vehicle that has a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three (3) wheels in contact with the ground, including a vehicle that is fully enclosed, has three (3) wheels in contact with the ground, weighs less than one thousand five hundred pounds (1,500 lbs.), and has the capacity to maintain posted highway speed limits, excluding a tractor or motorized bicycle.

(e) "Vehicle" and "freight motor vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks."

 

- OS

Edited June 28, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

I try to make things as easy as possible for the officer when I get pulled over. I roll down my windows (all of them), turn on the interior lights, place both hands on the wheel and when the LEO asks provide both Lisc and HCP which are on the dash so I don't have to take my hands out of sight. I figure that's gotta be a tense moment for an officer... walking up on an unknown... anything I can do to make their life easier. The officers seem to be appreciative. It might not be necessary but it costs me nothing and makes their lives a little less tense, so why not.

 

And all that movement as he is pulling you over won't make him tense. I would rather a person get all that in my presence than trying to do all that before I get to the car. From the back you probably look like you are trying to hide something or prepare for something other than a friendly encounter.

[maroonandwhite]

And all that movement as he is pulling you over won't make him tense. I would rather a person get all that in my presence than trying to do all that before I get to the car. From the back you probably look like you are trying to hide something or prepare for something other than a friendly encounter.

That's a good point. Maybe the easiest way to go about this is too just not get pulled over....... :cool:

[tnhawk]

That's a good point. Maybe the easiest way to go about this is too just not get pulled over....... :cool:

This is the most effective method I've found over the years.

[teecro]

I hold a lot of respect for the LEO that does his job in an upstanding and honorable manor but I absolutely despise those who make up the law along the way and/or abuse the power given to them.... I always hated that MI had a duty to disclose as it does nothing to make either of us safer when interacting after all I am an honest person are I not? Growing up in LA was so much better in that your car was considered an extension of your home and you were entitled to defend yourself as such. To that LEO almost never asked if there was a weapon in the car in LA... I will generally obey the law without question no matter the state that I'm in and if required I will inform but I'll be dammed if I will divulge any info I'm by law not required to give....

 

Respect goes both ways....

[Fallguy]

If they get caught delaying traffic stops because a person has a gun and *might* be a prohibited person...  They'll have problems.  

 

Second, up until July 1st, having a loaded gun has been a crime...  that goes away in your car...  so they can't detain you for having the gun anymore, unless they have RAS that you specifically are a prohibited person.

 

The other big surprise for officers.. 39-17-1351(t) doesn't apply to non-permit holders...  so there is no 'disarming for safety' of non-permit holders who has a loaded firearm in their vehicle under state law.

 

 

Since the new law creates an exception to 39-17-1307, not a defense to it...  I foresee a lot of officers having issues with the new law, and a number of lawsuits coming from it.

 

 

Good points.

[charlessummers]

Since I carry on the right, I fear of exposing my firearm while reaching for my license. Haven't been pulled over "yet", but I've rehearsed what I'm going to say/do when that happens. I would hate to be reaching for my wallet and another officer from the passenger side spot my firearm and think I was reaching for it instead. So yeah... all windows down, radio off, lights on, hands on the wheel at 10 and 2 until the officer reaches the truck. Then I'm going to mention that I'm legally armed and let him know where my firearm is. He can tell me how to handle it from there.

 

Not that I'm scared of the police... but if I were in his shoes, that's how I'd want it to happen. They never know who their approaching... and it's my job to make them at ease with me.

[tnhawk]

.....Not that I'm scared of the police... but if I were in his shoes, that's how I'd want it to happen. They never know who their approaching... and it's my job to make them at ease with me.

If I'm stopped I'll be nervous.  I don't want the officer and myself both on edge.

[itw69fxst]

I try to make things as easy as possible for the officer when I get pulled over. I roll down my windows (all of them), turn on the interior lights, place both hands on the wheel and when the LEO asks provide both Lisc and HCP which are on the dash so I don't have to take my hands out of sight. I figure that's gotta be a tense moment for an officer... walking up on an unknown... anything I can do to make their life easier. The officers seem to be appreciative. It might not be necessary but it costs me nothing and makes their lives a little less tense, so why not.

I do pretty much the same thing - I know cops have a bitch of a job - so I try to make my interactions with them as positive as possible.

[tnhawk]

It's as stressful for an officer as it is for a driver to be stopped on the side of the road.  However the officer is required to put his safety at risk on a frequent basis to do his job.

[bird333]

So if you are armed, should you try to get your license, and proof of insurance out before the cop approaches you or wait so he can see?

[monkeylizard]

It depends on whether or not I have enough time to get that stuff out after stashing my weed and open container before he gets out of his car.

[mikegideon]

It depends on whether or not I have enough time to get that stuff out after stashing my weed and open container before he gets out of his car.

 

Just throw it out the window. He won't notice :)

[monkeylizard]

I'm not going to throw away perfectly good hooch and ganja! Are you mad?!?!?!

[jughead]

wont notify again if and when i get stopped. been stopped twice both time officers went ballistic because of cocked and locked 45. both took gun and unloaded it and told me i couldnt carry it that way one made me put it under the seat said open carry was not legal

[teecro]

wont notify again if and when i get stopped. been stopped twice both time officers went ballistic because of cocked and locked 45. both took gun and unloaded it and told me i couldnt carry it that way one made me put it under the seat said open carry was not legal

 

This is not surprising at all as most LEO are not really gun people at all and are simply not all that familiar with the 1911 and that it is likely more safe C&L than their dept issue Glock.....

[Beretta Racer]

Although you are under no requirement in Tennessee to advise the LEO, many appreciate the gesture and will thank you for it. A few years back I was on my way home from work on the 4th of July and was doing 68 in a 50. Ooops! Got pulled over in a small town notorious for writing a ticket for even a couple of mph over the limit. I kept my hands where the officer could see them and gave him my permit with my DL and POI. He gave me a warning because he said he appreciated my being nice and helpful. Saved me a pile of cash. 

[tnhawk]

.... I kept my hands where the officer could see them and gave him my permit with my DL and POI. He gave me a warning because he said he appreciated my being nice and helpful. Saved me a pile of cash. 

Different town, similar experience. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

This is not surprising at all as most LEO are not really gun people at all and are simply not all that familiar with the 1911 and that it is likely more safe C&L than their dept issue Glock.....

If it was a problem we would have heard about 1911 butt in the last 100 years. Can't say I haven't heard the same for Glocks.

[DaveTN]

If they get caught delaying traffic stops because a person has a gun and *might* be a prohibited person...  They'll have problems.  
 
Second, up until July 1st, having a loaded gun has been a crime...  that goes away in your car...  so they can't detain you for having the gun anymore, unless they have RAS that you specifically are a prohibited person.
 
The other big surprise for officers.. 39-17-1351(t) doesn't apply to non-permit holders...  so there is no 'disarming for safety' of non-permit holders who has a loaded firearm in their vehicle under state law.
 
 
Since the new law creates an exception to 39-17-1307, not a defense to it...  I foresee a lot of officers having issues with the new law, and a number of lawsuits coming from it.

Nothing in the law keeps an Officer from making the scene safe. Probable cause or RAS is not required to disarm anyone. If an Officer wants to make the scene safe it sound be pretty easy to articulate that; if required to do so. Although I doubt this will be a problem; what law do you think they would be violating?

If the state legislature wanted to recognize your right to carry; they would do so. They have not done that.

[Fallguy]

Nothing in the law keeps an Officer from making the scene safe. Probable cause or RAS is not required to disarm anyone. If an Officer wants to make the scene safe it sound be pretty easy to articulate that; if required to do so. Although I doubt this will be a problem; what law do you think they would be violating?

If the state legislature wanted to recognize your right to carry; they would do so. They have not done that.

 

The TN Constitution does give citizens the right to be armed.  The law makes an "exception" to 39-17-1307 not a defense. 

 

I agree an officer can make the scene safe, but a blanket policy (whether personal or by department) of disarming every person they encounter, just seems like a blatant abuse of authority to me. 

[DaveTN]

I agree an officer can make the scene safe, but a blanket policy (whether personal or by department) of disarming every person they encounter, just seems like a blatant abuse of authority to me.

I agree. And there may be a problem if an Officer said that and his department supported it.

But many people will feel that the Officer has done something wrong if they are disarmed. Is it something the Officer should worry about? Well, if something tells them they should disarm someone carrying a deadly weapon on a traffic stop, and they ignore that due to some fear of repercussions; they probably should find a different line of work.
 

The TN Constitution does give citizens the right to be armed.

And the state legislature took away that right.

[tnguy]

The first thing someone will do if they are going to attempt to do you harm is disarm you. It's not the norm but it's not like there aren't bad cops and cop impersonators out there. 

 

Now, obviously, there are sometimes exigent circumstances where disarmament would be appropriate but for an otherwise law abiding citizen in a routine traffic stop, certainly not.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tnguy

[DaveTN]

The first thing someone will do if they are going to attempt to do you harm is disarm you. It's not the norm but it's not like there aren't bad cops and cop impersonators out there. 
 
Now, obviously, there are sometimes exigent circumstances where disarmament would be appropriate but for an otherwise law abiding citizen in a routine traffic stop, certainly not.

I think stopping a suspect DUI vehicle or someone driving recklessly is a “routine” traffic stop (if there is such a thing). But things like that will get you immediately disarmed. Failure to comply with Officers orders to either disarm or allow him to disarm you could escalate into something more than a simple traffic stop.

If an Officer is violating some Tennessee law or Department policy by disarming you; you have recourse after you are released from the stop.