Anyone have a Non NFA 14" "firearm"?

[glowdotGlock]

I am about to order the parts needed to turn my PGO 500 into a 14" barrel, 26.5" overall length "firearm". Thanks to Dolomite for showing me this. Does anyone else on here have one? http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

[glowdotGlock]

So no one has one of these on here?

[daveW]

I don't have one but...if I ever run across a pgo for the right price, I plan to. It's been on my "list" for a while. If you do it, please share your experience!

[Murgatroy]

What is preventing you from just cutting the barrel flush with the mag cap after installation of the Raptor Grip?

 

Would that be slightly longer than the 14"?

[RC3]

I have messed up wrists from high school football and looking at that thing makes me dread firing it. 

[glowdotGlock]

[quote name="Murgatroy" post="1164118" timestamp="1404190090"]What is preventing you from just cutting the barrel flush with the mag cap after installation of the Raptor Grip? Would that be slightly longer than the 14"?[/quote] I guess you could. Just as long as the gun left the factory with a pistol grip and is longer than 26".

[Murgatroy]

I like the look of the 14" shown in that link, but my thinking, that is an awful lot of scratch just to get an inch or two shorter than what a hacksaw would give me, ya know?

[DaveTN]

It may be okay with the ATF, but has it been tested in Tennessee? It does not meet the Tennessee definition of a handgun or a shotgun. I see the risk of being arrested for possession of a sawed off shotgun under state law, with big lawyer bills to follow even if you win.

39-17-1301. Part definitions
(15) "Short barrel" means a barrel length of less than sixteen inches (16'') for a rifle and eighteen inches (18'') for a shotgun, or an overall firearm length of less than twenty-six inches (26'');

(16) "Shotgun" means any firearm designed, made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth-bore barrel either a number of ball shot or a single projectile by a single function of the trigger;
39-11-106. Title definitions.
(16) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12'') that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;

[Dolomite_supafly]

It may be okay with the ATF, but has it been tested in Tennessee? It does not meet the Tennessee definition of a handgun or a shotgun. I see the risk of being arrested for possession of a sawed off shotgun under state law, with big lawyer bills to follow even if you win.

39-17-1301. Part definitions
(15) "Short barrel" means a barrel length of less than sixteen inches (16'') for a rifle and eighteen inches (18'') for a shotgun, or an overall firearm length of less than twenty-six inches (26'');

(16) "Shotgun" means any firearm designed, made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth-bore barrel either a number of ball shot or a single projectile by a single function of the trigger;
39-11-106. Title definitions.
(16) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12'') that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;

Where did you pull this copy of 39-17-1301? I have looked high and low and cannot find the part about the 12" barrel for pistols. I know it used to be there but at some point it has been removed, which it should be, to prevent confusion.

 

The key to this is "shoulder fired". The OP is buying a gun that was never "made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder" therefore it does not meet the definition of a "shotgun". And because it does not meet the definition of "shotgun" it does not need to have the required 18" barrel of a "shotgun".

 

OP, I would carry a copy of the ATF opinion letter as well as a copy of 39-17-1301. Then I would try to explain to any inquiring LE that the firearm you are building does not meet the definition of a "shotgun" according to TCA or the ATF.  

[DaveTN]

Where did you pull this copy of 39-17-1301? I have looked high and low and cannot find the part about the 12" barrel for pistols. I know it used to be there but at some point it has been removed, which it should be, to prevent confusion.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/
Under 39-17-1301
 

The key to this is "shoulder fired". The OP is buying a gun that was never "made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder" therefore it does not meet the definition of a "shotgun". And because it does not meet the definition of "shotgun" it does not need to have the required 18" barrel of a "shotgun".

That may be for the BATF; they directly addressed it. And it may be okay in Tennessee if you go by the letter of the law. But it clearly violates the intent of the law. I would want to see case law or at the very least an AG opinion on it. I don’t think an argument that it doesn’t fall into either category would keep some DA’s from filing state charges.
 

OP, I would carry a copy of the ATF opinion letter as well as a copy of 39-17-1301. Then I would try to explain to any inquiring LE that the firearm you are building does not meet the definition of a "shotgun" according to TCA or the ATF.

I also would have a bondsman on speed dial and do your homework for a criminal defense attorney. You should know that the BATF rulings on this weapon have nothing to do with state law.

[Oh Shoot]

39-11-106. Title definitions.
(16) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12'') that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;

Where did you pull this copy of 39-17-1301? I have looked high and low and cannot find the part about the 12" barrel for pistols. I know it used to be there but at some point it has been removed, which it should be, to prevent confusion....

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/
Under 39-17-1301

 

Handgun definition in 39-11-106. Dave missed his own cite. :)

 

I have mentioned the peculiarities of possessing a "firearm", like an AR pistol 26" or more with a vertical forward grip on it. Under previous code, there was no way you could have such loaded in vehicle even with HCP, as it is not a "handgun", "rifle", or "shotgun".   But now any "firearm" is allowed for anyone.

 

But you still can't carry it on person in TN with HCP, as it's not a "handgun". And actually, if you conceal it on person, you break federal law, as it becomes an AOW when concealed.

 

But most all AR pistol configs use <12" barrels, so this particular legal quirk isn't really applicable to their "firearm" status in same way as Dave's point.

 

 

- OS

Edited July 4, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

Handgun definition in 39-11-106. Dave missed his own cite. :)

No, Dave answered the question "Where did you pull this copy of 39-17-1301?" I also quoted 39-11-106, but that wasn't the question.

[Oh Shoot]

No, Dave answered the question "Where did you pull this copy of 39-17-1301?" I also quoted 39-11-106, but that wasn't the question.

 

Okay, Chief Splitting Hairs ;)

 

- OS

[DaveTN]

Okay, Chief Splitting Hairs ;)
 
- OS

Yes you were, and I accept your apology.

[300winmag]

Is this legal in all states with the barrel 14 inches or just federally legal?  I would be concerned that some state would have a stricter definition of this than the feds.

Edited July 12, 2014 by 300winmag

[Oh Shoot]

Is this legal in all states with the barrel 14 inches or just federally legal?  I would be concerned that some state would have a stricter definition of this than the feds.

 

Don't know for sure, but likely isn't. For sure, a number of states do not accede to federal legality/definitions for all firearms.

 

- OS

[DaveTN]

Is this legal in all states with the barrel 14 inches or just federally legal?  I would be concerned that some state would have a stricter definition of this than the feds.

I think you could have a problem in this state. It does not meet the definition of a handgun for this state.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I think you could have a problem in this state. It does not meet the definition of a handgun for this state.

Neither does my Contender PISTOL.

[DaveTN]

Neither does my Contender PISTOL.

And that went all the way to the SCOTUS with them applying that the law can’t be ambiguous. Tennessee law is not ambiguous. Who wants to play that game over a sawed off shotgun?

[Oh Shoot]

I think you could have a problem in this state. It does not meet the definition of a handgun for this state.

 

It's not claiming to be a handgun. Indeed, just like an 26" AR pistol with VFG, it can't be legally concealed on the person as per federal ruling.

 

- OS

Edited July 12, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

It's not claiming to be a handgun.
 
- OS

What’s it claiming to be, other than not a violation of Federal Law?

[Oh Shoot]

What’s it claiming to be, other than not a violation of Federal Law?

 

Well, nothing makes it illegal to have a "handgun" with a barrel over 12", whatever you'd like to call it.

 

I agree you could technically not carry it on person with an HCP, just like an 26" AR pistol configured with VFG. There is a Buntline Special with +12" barrel too. So, none of these are "handguns" under the definition, but there's nothing in any statute that makes any of them illegal to own, shoot, or carry in vehicle.

 

- OS