00 Buck @ 15'

[deerslayer]

I was reading on TGO the other day about how much one round from a shotgun would spread at close range. I had a little free time today and decided to find out for myself. The following is a picture of a USPSA target shot at 15' with one round of Winchester 3" 00 Buck out of my Mossberg 500 with an 18.5" cylinder bore (no choke) barrel. As you can see, the pattern is MAYBE 6" wide. I knew that it wouldn't cover the whole target, (many believe a shotgun blast will cover a whole room) but even I was a bit suprised--I thought that the short barrel combined with no choke would have thrown a bigger pattern. BTW, the 3" Winchesters THUMP (on both ends).

[Oh Shoot]

As you can see, the pattern is MAYBE 6" wide. ....BTW, the 3" Winchesters THUMP (on both ends). ..

Good post.

Yeah, that's about right, and really, is close to the same with any length barrel at that distance.

I've read several places about a Federal 00 load that is even significantly tighter...something to do with way the pellets are contained, or spun out, or something, forget what shell is called.

And YEAH, 3 inchers THUMP, betcher ass!

I've never shot a 3.5", don't care too either (my 870 ain't chambered for em anyway).

And you are right, there is a common misconception among folks who keep a shottie around for HD, but really don't shoot, that the thing will carpet bomb over a wide area.

- OS

[Guest tnmale46]

i shoot 3.5 ers in my charles daly it aint unbearable but yeah it kicks

[Guest Grout]

Good post.

Yeah, that's about right, and really, is close to the same with any length barrel at that distance.

I've read several places about a Federal 00 load that is even significantly tighter...something to do with way the pellets are contained, or spun out, or something, forget what shell is called.

And YEAH, 3 inchers THUMP, betcher ass!

I've never shot a 3.5", don't care too either (my 870 ain't chambered for em anyway).

And you are right, there is a common misconception among folks who keep a shottie around for HD, but really don't shoot, that the thing will carpet bomb over a wide area.

- OS

Yep,you still gotta aim the thing.

[musicman]

Cool, further backs up the good ol' 1 inch spread per yard rule of thumb. Thanks for the report!

[enfield]

That one's dead!!

[molonlabetn]

Thank you for posting this!

I'd be interested to see if the spread is noticeably wider from a short-barreled shotgun at the same distance. I would expect not much, with an equivalent choke anyways.

I know that my 20" FN SLP prints pie-plate-sized patterns even out to 25yd with the Federal 00 and Improved Cylinder choke. I'll take some pictures next time I get it out... perhaps this could become a 'post your choice HD load and gun pattern' thread, at 15'?

This is a good read, as well: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm

[Curiousgb]

If I remember correctly, from my days qualifing with the 870 when I was in the Coast Guard. We shot at 25', "aim for the belly button" all rounds in the chest abdomen area. We were also taught to bounce it of bulkheads and decks.

We always refered to the 870 as the "universal translator", when you racked a round it cleared up any confusion.

[Guest Mugster]

If I remember correctly, from my days qualifing with the 870 when I was in the Coast Guard. We shot at 25', "aim for the belly button" all rounds in the chest abdomen area. We were also taught to bounce it of bulkheads and decks.

We always refered to the 870 as the "universal translator", when you racked a round it cleared up any confusion.

Yep, it'll bounce good. Go right through drywall though.

[Curiousgb]

Yep, it'll bounce good. Go right through drywall though.

Not many ships I boarded had drywall.

[Guest Mugster]

Not many ships I boarded had drywall.

You know the difference between a coast guard ship and a navy ship right? If the coast guard ship sinks you can wade to shore...

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

You know the difference between a coast guard ship and a navy ship right? If the coast guard ship sinks you can wade to shore...

Sorry, couldn't resist

The way I always told that joke was to mention offhand how you had to be at least 6' tall to join the CG... wait for someone to look confused and ask why, and then you come out with the "so they can wade to shore" comment.

Anyway, what were we talking about?

[Curiousgb]

You know the difference between a coast guard ship and a navy ship right? If the coast guard ship sinks you can wade to shore...

Sorry, couldn't resist

Here we go. I have to be careful, I am married to a Navy Master Chief.

Difference between the Coast Guard and the Navy. In the CG the men are made steel and the ships are made of wood.

How many Coasties does it take for an at sea burial? Six, three to throw him overboard and three to stomp him in the mud.

And my favorite. If it weren't for the Coast Guard all Navy dependents would be ugly.

[Guest GT_Rat]

How do you know the coasties are too far out to sea? When the water turns blue the coasties turn green.

[Curiousgb]

How do you know the coasties are too far out to sea? When the water turns blue the coasties turn green.

Thats a good one.

Every time I went to Ref Training it was the Navy Ship riders that got sick. Something about ships that actually rocked. I remember doing a spec opps training we had some Marine Force Recon on board. They could not wait to get off they were some sick pups. But I still wouldn't mess with them.

[Guest GT_Rat]

I was on a Gator Freighter when I was Active Duty (USS Nassau). It was flat bottomed so it rocked pretty good even as large of a ship as it is. When I was in the reserves I did two weeks on a frigate that had problems with a ballast tank. It was riding really high in the water and as a result bobbed like a cork. I had to brace myself with my rack rail to keep from getting flung out of my bunk onto the deck while I slept.

[Curiousgb]

I was on a Gator Freighter when I was Active Duty (USS Nassau). It was flat bottomed so it rocked pretty good even as large of a ship as it is. When I was in the reserves I did two weeks on a frigate that had problems with a ballast tank. It was riding really high in the water and as a result bobbed like a cork. I had to brace myself with my rack rail to keep from getting flung out of my bunk onto the deck while I slept.

Oh the good ole days!

[Oh Shoot]

If I remember correctly, from my days qualifing with the 870 when I was in the Coast Guard. We shot at 25', "aim for the belly button" all rounds in the chest abdomen area. ...

Don't understand.

Buckshot/slugs rise?

6" in 7 yards?

Certainly, not my experience.

??

- OS

[Curiousgb]

Don't understand.

Buckshot/slugs rise?

6" in 7 yards?

Certainly, not my experience.

??

- OS

I agree it doesn't make sense. It was 25 yards sorry.

[Guest Watauga]

I was reading on TGO the other day about how much one round from a shotgun would spread at close range. I had a little free time today and decided to find out for myself. The following is a picture of a USPSA target shot at 15' with one round of Winchester 3" 00 Buck out of my Mossberg 500 with an 18.5" cylinder bore (no choke) barrel. As you can see, the pattern is MAYBE 6" wide. I knew that it wouldn't cover the whole target, (many believe a shotgun blast will cover a whole room) but even I was a bit suprised--I thought that the short barrel combined with no choke would have thrown a bigger pattern. BTW, the 3" Winchesters THUMP (on both ends).

My 590 does about the same with 00 buck. It's also fairly accurate with slugs with the ghost ring sights.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

The new Federal low recoil stuff is super tight even at 25 yards.The shot sits in the cup until it leaves the barrel so it gets less pellet deformation from barrel contact. Since the pellets end up being more concentric (less deformed) they fly in a tighter pattern.

I had a LE guy in class last month that was using it in a cylinder bore 18" 870 and getting FIST sized patterns at 25 yards. Frankly that is a bit too tight for my taste, but if ALL you have is buckshot and you might reasonably use it at 20+ yards then I guess it makes more sense. But still, it is interesting how many people still think that shotguns throw a "wall of lead".

I am one of those that come down on the side of bigger patterns to insure hits on moving targets and to get multiple organ perforation with each shot. But then again I view the shotgun as a 15 yards and less weapon and if I need to shoot farther I probably would have been better served with a rifle. But to each his own.

I've got an advanced shotgun class here Nov 8 and 9 and I'll try to get some pattern size data with different guns and loads and report back here after.

[et45]

I prefer a tighter pattern.I also prefer #1 Buck over 00 as well.A tighter pattern ensures a more massive wound and greater range.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

On the other hand the tighter pattern makes a clean miss more likely due to the small pattern size.... besides if one needs tight patterns there are rifles that throw .224" or .308" patterns...

Largely comes down to why one would choose the shotgun. If tight patterns are the ideal, then why not just use slugs? Why even bother with buck at all?

On the other hand if one expects a chaotic quick moving gunfight at pistol fight range (less than 15 yards) possibly in less than ideal lighting conditions I'd rather opt for a shotgun loaded with something that will give me decent target coverage while increasing the odds of me hitting those erraticly moving targets that are trying to kill me back.......

[et45]

Hit ratio is higher with a shoulder gun than a handgun.You have overpenatration issues with rifles (we are talking apartment/subdivision housing here),I don't like slugs compared to #1 buck.If I expect a gunfight I'm leaving before hand and if it is inside 15 yds you are going to have to aim because the pattern will not spread enough to cover half a room,hence the subject of this thread.This is just my opinion,if it gets me killed oh well.One less ******* in the world.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Good arguement for a short barrel thats for sure Heres another side to that arguement...if your using a shotgun for its "spreadability" should you buy lower quality shells so you get more spread?