Scopes -- again I say invest your money here

[Guest gcrookston]

Today I had another experience with a guy that spent thousands on his rifles and hundreds on his scopes. Here I spend hundreds on my rifles and a thousand (or more), on my scopes.

If you have any desire to shoot more than 100 yrds, pay what you can for your rifle, but never skimp on good glass. My customer (the guy I was shooting with), spent $2,000 on his rifle and $200 on his scope.

After some terrible groups @ 500 yards I pulled a leupold Varix-III 6.5x20 off my rifle and mounted it on his... weird thing happened. his groups went from 7 moa down to under 2 moa. go figure

Dang, but I hate cheap glass. It makes me think of the guy driving the $425,000 Ferrari looking for the cheapest unleaded... what's the point?

and good ammo is next. If you can afford a $1,000 rifle you can afford to feed it well, scope it well and reap the benefits...

ok, I'm going back to sleep now. My pet-peeves are fed.

[Guest Revelator]

I'm not into long-range shooting (that's not why I have guns) but I catch your drift. Sounds like your customer needs some more lessons on shooting. I don't know anything about scopes. Never shot with one, don't really know how they work. Just curious, how much does one like the one you mentioned cost?

[Guest gcrookston]

I'm not into long-range shooting ...Just curious, how much does one like the one you mentioned cost?

Start at a number either 2x or 0.75x your rifle, depending upon application and work the numbers down to fit your means.

To shop for a good scope you look for 4 things

Parallax -- the ability of the reticle to hold Zero while the viewer is looking through the scope from different angles --this is the quickest and meanest way to tell cheap glass

Clarity -- this includes clouding/distortion at the edges, even black-outs (black-outs at the edges often come from poor parallax as well).

Focus -- the ability of the scope to clearly state the objective (target), and the reticle (cross hairs -- or other preferenced target indicators).

Light gathering Properties -- Usually the larger the bell (the receiving end of the scope) and the larger the tube (1" is standard, but 30mm or more is ideal), the better.

Generally speaking, an optical scope should be purchased for purpose. Under 100 yards, there is no reason to purchase a 34x Nighthawk or Sworavski.

Then again, you shouldn't be considering a $200 Samons or Springfield 3x9 if you intend to be reaching out to 500 yrds or more.

When buying a rifle scope, step outside the store and point it at a target at least 200 yards away down the road. Fiddle with the adjustments, move your head from side to side and up and down. Look for movement from zero, black and fuzzy areas at the edges. How much darker is the field of view looking through the scope than around it?

There are two scope manufactures I recommend: Leupold and Burris, and not so much Leupold anymore, their QA has been on the skids. I also recommend IOR. I own Burris, Leupold and IOR Scopes for my long-range (500+ yrd guns) and Bushnell for my up to 100 yrd guns. Would love to own a Nightforce or Sworavski... can't justify the incremental quality for the cost until I win the lotto.

That's a round-a-bout way of answering your question, but since my vision started to go at what I refuse to call middle aged, that's how I pick them...

note below, the large bells for light gathering, sunshades to block out unwanted shine, and also that half those guns pictured below cost less than their scopes did, while all achieve moa or less with quality ammo....

Edited October 11, 2008 by gcrookston

[willis68]

Gcrookston,

Is this a good long range scope? http://edbrown.com/htmlos.cgi/00191.2.738037752916453410 I am thinking of getting an Ed Brown Marine Sniper in 308 with this scope, what is your opinion of the rifle and scope?

[Rightwinger]

another happy Burris owner!

I am also trying out some Pentax glass I got from Joe last winter. Its not the high dollar stuff but its also not going to shoot out past 150 yards. Its mounted on a .340 Wby Mag so I'm more worried about recoil effects. We shall see.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Today I had another experience with a guy that spent thousands on his rifles and hundreds on his scopes. Here I spend hundreds on my rifles and a thousand (or more), on my scopes.

If you have any desire to shoot more than 100 yrds, pay what you can for your rifle, but never skimp on good glass. My customer (the guy I was shooting with), spent $2,000 on his rifle and $200 on his scope.

After some terrible groups @ 500 yards I pulled a leupold Varix-III 6.5x20 off my rifle and mounted it on his... weird thing happened. his groups went from 7 moa down to under 2 moa. go figure

Dang, but I hate cheap glass. It makes me think of the guy driving the $425,000 Ferrari looking for the cheapest unleaded... what's the point?

and good ammo is next. If you can afford a $1,000 rifle you can afford to feed it well, scope it well and reap the benefits...

ok, I'm going back to sleep now. My pet-peeves are fed.

+1

I also find people do this with concealment holsters.

They'll buy the latest/greatest handgun and throw it into a POS holster.

[Guest gcrookston]

Gcrookston,

Is this a good long range scope? http://edbrown.com/htmlos.cgi/00191.2.738037752916453410 I am thinking of getting an Ed Brown Marine Sniper in 308 with this scope, what is your opinion of the rifle and scope?

I don't know what to tell you. The link was to the main page of Ed's site.

[Guest gcrookston]

another happy Burris owner!

I am also trying out some Pentax glass I got from Joe last winter. Its not the high dollar stuff but its also not going to shoot out past 150 yards. Its mounted on a .340 Wby Mag so I'm more worried about recoil effects. We shall see.

I'd like to know how that works for you, let me know. I've an Unertl Hawk that finally broke on a 264 WM due to recoil (after about 50 years, but who's counting?). I'm having it rebuilt by the Unertl factory, they seem to think they'll honor all the old life-time warrantees...

Edited October 11, 2008 by gcrookston

[willis68]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/NF-NXS2256-MDOT.html

Sorry I thought the link took you to this, I will get the Marine Sniper with this scope only if another Assault rifle ban is activated, otherwise I will be getting this scope with this rifle http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF045&gid=FNG007&mid=FNM0109, in .308

Edited October 11, 2008 by willis68

[Guest mw.]

What kind of scope did he have on it?

[Rightwinger]

I'd like to know how that works for you, let me know. I've an Unertl Hawk that finally broke on a 264 WM due to recoil (after about 50 years, but who's counting?). I'm having it rebuilt by the Unertl factory, they seem to think they'll honor all the old life-time warrantees...

Will do. I'm hoping to shoot my Socom which I just put a Burris back on tomorrow. That one also tests optics pretty well. This is the 2nd Fullfield II I will have put on it. I may go ahead and shoot the Wby as well. Main focus of the shoot will be to check zero on my sons and my muzzle loaders.

[Guest gcrookston]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/NF-NXS2256-MDOT.html

Sorry I thought the link took you to this, I will get the Marine Sniper with this scope only if another Assault rifle ban is activated, otherwise I will be getting this scope with this rifle http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF045&gid=FNG007&mid=FNM0109, in .308

The nightforce is one of the best of the best...

When you take a Springfield or other low dollar scope (<$100) and hold it up against a Nikon or other mid-range scope (<$500), then take those and hold them up against a Burris or Leupold ($1000 +/-), you will note a functional increase in quality. Just when you think you've got the fits and shiggles with a Leupold Mk4M1 or Burris XTR, you get a chance to compare to a Nightforce or Swarovski and you will see quite clearly where that extra $1,000-$1,500 went.

IOR advertises they cut and grind the glass for Swarovski. The IOR is a heck-uv-a scope, but it is not Swarovski calibre by any means.

and I won't leave out Ziess --- my opinion of these is over-priced and on par with a mid-range scope like Nikon (at a Burris/Leupold price).

Edited October 11, 2008 by gcrookston

[willis68]

Thanks gcrookston,

If I do end up getting the Marine Sniper and the Scope, I will be getting an outstanding deal on both, believe me when I say it will be an incredible price as I have purchased several High End firearms from a dealer friend, so I guess my question to you would be would you buy the Ed Brown Marine rifle in .308 and the scope for $800.00 to $1K off the retail price of the combined purchase price?? You seem to know your stuff about rifles and I dont know anything about rifles or scopes, I appreciate your advice!

That is only if Obama gets in office, otherwise I will be getting a Scar without such a good discount, but alot less money nonetheless

Edited October 11, 2008 by willis68

[Guest gcrookston]

Thanks gcrookston,

If I do end up getting the Marine Sniper and the Scope, I will be getting an outstanding deal on both, believe me when I say it will be an incredible price as I have purchased several High End firearms from a dealer friend, so I guess my question to you would be would you buy the Ed Brown Marine rifle in .308 and the scope for $800.00 to $1K off the retail price of the combined purchase price?? You seem to know your stuff about rifles and I dont know anything about rifles or scopes, I appreciate your advice!

That is only if Obama gets in office, otherwise I will be getting a Scar without such a good discount, but alot less money nonetheless

Why not get two and sell me one? I am not endorsing this product, I'm just fawning all over it...

[willis68]

:)I will Let you know if that is not a problem as you are a friend of Joe, I will definately do what I can , Like I said it depends on the election results

Edited October 13, 2008 by willis68

[Guest Mugster]

Today I had another experience with a guy that spent thousands on his rifles and hundreds on his scopes. Here I spend hundreds on my rifles and a thousand (or more), on my scopes.

If you have any desire to shoot more than 100 yrds, pay what you can for your rifle, but never skimp on good glass. My customer (the guy I was shooting with), spent $2,000 on his rifle and $200 on his scope.

After some terrible groups @ 500 yards I pulled a leupold Varix-III 6.5x20 off my rifle and mounted it on his... weird thing happened. his groups went from 7 moa down to under 2 moa. go figure

Dang, but I hate cheap glass. It makes me think of the guy driving the $425,000 Ferrari looking for the cheapest unleaded... what's the point?

and good ammo is next. If you can afford a $1,000 rifle you can afford to feed it well, scope it well and reap the benefits...

ok, I'm going back to sleep now. My pet-peeves are fed.

Hey Glen, where were you getting 500 yards? Anyplace around these here hills?

[Guest gcrookston]

Hey Glen, where were you getting 500 yards? Anyplace around these here hills?

We shot a little NE of Bowling Green on his farm.

Edited October 18, 2008 by gcrookston