What ever happened to the Remington 9mm

[Grayfox54]

When I first heard about it and saw pictures I had high hopes for the R51. I really wanted to like it and probably buy one. 

Then I saw one at a gun show and as soon as I picked it up my hand and brain both said "NOPE!". Lost all interest right then and there.  :down:

[1gewehr]

Amazing........it wasn't like they had to invent a new design and gun.

Actually, it is.  The original was an all-steel .380 (or .32).  The new one uses modern materials and is 9mm.  Even though the principles of operation are the same, the actual design would have to be done from scratch.  It's not just a matter of scaling up a bit.

[SmokyBaer]

I hope they get it straightened out. I want one if it'll work correctly.

 

The original model 51's are awesome.

 

Agreed...  They need to break out the old drawings and do a retro.

[spclopr8tr]

And yet the new issue of Guns magazine did a review on the R51 with glowing praise. I wonder just how far in advance of publication they have to cut off changes to the articles. If the R51 is truly dead you'd think Guns would have tried to pull the review. And, they are still listed for sale on GunBroker. Not sure if they were destined to be razor blades there would still be a market for them other than as a curiosity.

[Oh Shoot]

And yet the new issue of Guns magazine did a review on the R51 with glowing praise. I wonder just how far in advance of publication they have to cut off changes to the articles. If the R51 is truly dead you'd think Guns would have tried to pull the review. And, they are still listed for sale on GunBroker. Not sure if they were destined to be razor blades there would still be a market for them other than as a curiosity.

 

And full page ad in the July edition of American Rifleman, as already mentioned.  Both could just be as you suggest, though, a matter of lead time, too late to edit.

 

- OS

Edited July 16, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[graycrait]

POS in execution, brilliant in concept.

[hipower]

POS in execution, brilliant in concept.

Big lol. And very true.

[TNMTBik3r]

Saw today that Remington has removed it from their website... Guess they saw the light and admit it is a failure.

[babelt]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/foghorn/breaking-remington-scrubs-traces-r51-website/

[DaveTN]

I hate to see this happen to any gun company, but especially an American gun company that is expanding to the South.
I suspect Remington will try to make it right with the people that bought them.

[Oh Shoot]

I hate to see this happen to any gun company, but especially an American gun company that is expanding to the South.
I suspect Remington will try to make it right with the people that bought them.

 

Yeah, me too. Remington also has even more riding on the ongoing quality of Marlin firearms too.

 

- OS

[xjsnake]

Really wish they could have made it work as I love the idea and had been waiting for good early reports to pick one up. Glad I trusted myself and wasn't an early adopter. Oh well. Now that role is filled by a 9mm shield for me.

[dcloudy777]

I'd love to see some "smaller" manufacturer like maybe STI or Kahr buy the design/tooling from Remington (presumably for a song) and start making a decent version of this gun. 

[Guest tangojuliet]

call me when they bring back the model 53 

[TNMTBik3r]

Here is what happened, Remington offers to replace the one you bought with a new production run starting soon that fixes the issues.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-remington-replace-r51s/

[DaveTN]

Here is what happened, Remington offers to replace the one you bought with a new production run starting soon that fixes the issues.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-remington-replace-r51s/

Can't ask for more than that.

[mikegideon]

From what I've read, these functioned like pre-beta samples. 

 

 

 

 

 

To paraphrase prior conversations I've had....

 

 

Manager - "The cost is too high, we've got to implement these changes to get the cost down to our target before launch".  (because I won't get my fat bonus check if we don't)

 

Engineer - "Those changes haven't been validated.  We need another 8 weeks for that."

 

Manager - "No, the timeline isn't going to change.  You have to accelerate the validation program."

 

Engineer - "I can't.  It takes time to produce the hardware and run the tests.  9 women can't have a baby in a month."   <- yes, I actually said that once.

 

Manager - "Just implement them.  You can smooth out the rough edges later."

 

Engineer - "It's a lot more than just rough edges...   Launch could be a total train wreck."

 

Manager - "Whatever, either reduce the cost or senior management will go nuts."

 

Engineer - "Fine, you're the boss.  But this will probably be ugly."

 

*train wreck occurs*

 

Manager - "You idiots!  Can't you do anything?!  I'm sorry mr. senior manager, I have no idea what these dang engineers were thinking not validating those changes...."

 

Email is your friend. I NEVER throw one away until the other person is dead. :)

[TNMTBik3r]

More news, seems the engineers objected to the launch because of known issues but of course they were ignored and overruled.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/foghorn/remington-engineers-r51-launched-objections/

[DaveTN]

More news, seems the engineers objected to the launch because of known issues but of course they were ignored and overruled.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/foghorn/remington-engineers-r51-launched-objections/

Ha ha ha, most of the guns we have been shooting for the last 10 years (and many other products) would still be in testing if the engineers had their way. Besides that, Engineering didn’t release the product; quality did. Sounds to me like someone is just making stuff up.

[peejman]

Ha ha ha, most of the guns we have been shooting for the last 10 years (and many other products) would still be in testing if the engineers had their way. Besides that, Engineering didn’t release the product; quality did. Sounds to me like someone is just making stuff up.

Nope. Operations runs the show and decided to launch the product. Engineering just did what they were told.

[DaveTN]

Nope. Operations runs the show and decided to launch the product. Engineering just did what they were told.

Who is “operations”? Do they trump QA? The story is claiming they have a Remington Engineer saying there were known safety issues and they made them known to the brass, who decided to launch anyway. I guess that’s possible; but its sounds like BS to me.

[Garufa]

Who is “operations”? Do they trump QA? The story is claiming they have a Remington Engineer saying there were known safety issues and they made them known to the brass, who decided to launch anyway. I guess that’s possible; but its sounds like BS to me.

 

Sounds like American manufacturing to me.

[peejman]

Who is “operations”? Do they trump QA? The story is claiming they have a Remington Engineer saying there were known safety issues and they made them known to the brass, who decided to launch anyway. I guess that’s possible; but its sounds like BS to me.

Operations is the people who run production. Yes, they can override QA. They, and everyone else, are slaves to the bean counters. And by bean counters, I mean share holders and/or investors. Apparently the management at Remington didn't want to hear the bad news about the product. Fixing the problems (and product development in general) takes time and costs money, that makes the bean counters unhappy. And when the bean counters ain't happy, nobody's happy. As Garufa says.... Manufacturing in America. Edited July 26, 2014 by peejman

[DaveTN]

I see; I guess the gun industry operates differently than most other industries. As I said I guess it could happen. Maybe they should do like the junk coming from overseas; if you can sell it cheap enough no one expects it to be quality.

[graycrait]

If the R51 works, this time around and the reviews are good over many thousands of rounds I want one.