Support your local gun shops!

[Rightwinger]

Rightwinger,

 

Do you mind if I ask who you consider your "local gun shop"?

That would currently be D&T.  I used to part time there and went by there last Friday to pick up a new Vortex Sparc.  I have also shopped with G&L, Larry's Pawn in Portland, Antlers and Fins in Lafayette.  Do you mind if I ask why it matters? 

 

Will I drive to Rivergate to buy a bottle of Hoppes, nope.  But will I stop buy and get the sleeve of targets, couple of boxes of ammo and a sight, like I did last week, HELL YES. 

[tnhawk]

I prefer to use local shops for guns as well as other purchases.  Most of my guns were purchased after comparing and handling them at a local shop.  Unfortunately there are no local shops for my amateur radio equipment and only one for scuba equipment. 

[A.J. Holst]

Well, if you buy strictly on low price, what do you expect or demand terms of service? You certainly won't be a repeat customer if my competition can beat my price by $10 (or more if an Internet retailer)

Great customer service is performed by above average people who care and it's tough to recruit and retain them when your wages have to match your pricing structure. Painting with a broad brush the low price leader doesn't offer wage scales that get the best folks and it is evident at...insert company name here...

Unfortunately in many LGSs I've been in I would have gotten better service if the place was self serve! I've also bought from a few with competitive prices, willing to negotiate and good selection.

If I pay a few dollars more I expect an increase in both service and quality.

For you salespeople out there, be aware approximately 40% of your customers by on price; the good news is everyone else sees value in quality and service.

[runco]

Seriously, I have had fun with this OP, I hope no serious offense was taken!  I know I am being very eccentric with my comments, that is my nature, especially on buying items from local vs. the best price. 

 

Just like Walmart and big box stores destroyed small town USA mom and pops, the internet and businesses like Buds Gun Shop, GB, PSA, Optics Planet,  Ebay and Amazon are destroying whats left.  If local brick and mortar retailers do not see the tidal wave coming with internet shopping, and its double digit increase in purchases year after year, no amount of loyalty will help them survive.  GM, Chrysler and Ford once talked of loyalty, and see what happened to two of them just 5 years ago.  As a suggestion if someone is in firearms retail management or retail entrepreneurship, and wanted to survive the next 25 years, I would strongly suggest creating visions and creativity on how to use the internet to compete.  My idea to contribute:  I do think gun shops w/o indoor shooting ranges will go by the wayside in the next several years.   Too many people with guns now, and no where to shoot!  Indoor ranges is what the internet cannot compete against.  What if a local gun shop combined 6 mos of free or reduced gun range time with a purchase of a gun, what would that do to lure buyers, especially the 40% mentioned. 

[Rightwinger]

If you buy there, they will build it.

 

 

Our personal field of dreams

[gregintenn]

That would currently be D&T.  I used to part time there and went by there last Friday to pick up a new Vortex Sparc.  I have also shopped with G&L, Larry's Pawn in Portland, Antlers and Fins in Lafayette.  Do you mind if I ask why it matters? 

 

Will I drive to Rivergate to buy a bottle of Hoppes, nope.  But will I stop buy and get the sleeve of targets, couple of boxes of ammo and a sight, like I did last week, HELL YES. 

Sure. You and I aren't that far from each other, and I was afraid there was a good local gun shop I didn't know about.

 

I've done business with all the shops you named.

Edited June 22, 2014 by gregintenn

[tnguy]

Seriously, I have had fun with this OP, I hope no serious offense was taken!  I know I am being very eccentric with my comments, that is my nature, especially on buying items from local vs. the best price. 

 

Just like Walmart and big box stores destroyed small town USA mom and pops, the internet and businesses like Buds Gun Shop, GB, PSA, Optics Planet,  Ebay and Amazon are destroying whats left.  If local brick and mortar retailers do not see the tidal wave coming with internet shopping, and its double digit increase in purchases year after year, no amount of loyalty will help them survive.  GM, Chrysler and Ford once talked of loyalty, and see what happened to two of them just 5 years ago.  As a suggestion if someone is in firearms retail management or retail entrepreneurship, and wanted to survive the next 25 years, I would strongly suggest creating visions and creativity on how to use the internet to compete.  My idea to contribute:  I do think gun shops w/o indoor shooting ranges will go by the wayside in the next several years.   Too many people with guns now, and no where to shoot!  Indoor ranges is what the internet cannot compete against.  What if a local gun shop combined 6 mos of free or reduced gun range time with a purchase of a gun, what would that do to lure buyers, especially the 40% mentioned. 

 

I would love a decent indoor range around here. I've semi-considered getting one going myself but decided it was something I didn't want to get into.

 

The truth is, when businesses starts calling for "loyalty", it means they're not competing anymore. That may or may not be their own fault but of the gun stores I've been into, it's been a mixed bag. I think some of it is just that a shakeout is needed in retail. Having looked into opening a store, leases around these parts are just way too expensive and that can only lead into store owners finding it hard to be competitive against online places. A huge reality check is very overdue.

 

There's not just an issue with gun stores too. Several times I have tried to shop local but have found it impossible as the local stores have not been open when I am not at work. It's like people just don't want to admit what they're facing.

[Ugly]

Personally I am not a fan of indoor ranges, at all. But I would be more inclined to use one if you could shoot darn near anything in it.

[tnguy]

Something to do on a rainy day :)

 

Plus I'm sure indoors gives more options for location due to sound insulating properties.

 

I'd love to get some land for an outdoor range. Financially it's viable but it's about deciding the best move to make.

Edited June 22, 2014 by tnguy

[Rightwinger]

Bringing this one back to life to keep the thought going. 

 

Guys, think about the shops in your area.  Think about those purchases you have made or not, based on a smoking internet deal.  I've bought there as well.  But I'm changing.

 

Think out into a not to distant future.  Politicians know they really can't push a gun ban or confiscation nationwide.  We've all heard and discussed the methods they would use to ban guns, all they have to do is:

Limit ammo sales in the correct way (finding .22 easy?)

Expand other laws that can prevent you from owning or buying (had a doctor ask if you own guns?  know anyone with a frivolously applied order of protection?)

Heck, ban or limit primers......nothing else works then

 

But what if it were this easy....just don't put an internet tax on anything for a little longer.  The local guys are hurting!  Or worse, gone already!  When all the local guys are gone.....who is going to do that transfer?  Bud's and the other big internet dealers are gone shortly after that.  Who is going to do that transfer you saved a smoking 20 bucks on?  Think about it.  Buy local!  When you do a transfer, buy something from that FFL while your there.  These guys want to make a living and serve you.  When you walk in and pick up your 3 Aim or two Bud's deals and then happily avoid the sales tax and then buy NOTHING else, you are helping create and perpetuate the scenario above.

 

This is a forum for gun owners.  Are we helping our own cause with our purchase methods?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rightwinger

[contendershooter]

Seriously, I have had fun with this OP, I hope no serious offense was taken!  I know I am being very eccentric with my comments, that is my nature, especially on buying items from local vs. the best price. 

 

Just like Walmart and big box stores destroyed small town USA mom and pops, the internet and businesses like Buds Gun Shop, GB, PSA, Optics Planet,  Ebay and Amazon are destroying whats left.  If local brick and mortar retailers do not see the tidal wave coming with internet shopping, and its double digit increase in purchases year after year, no amount of loyalty will help them survive.  GM, Chrysler and Ford once talked of loyalty, and see what happened to two of them just 5 years ago.  As a suggestion if someone is in firearms retail management or retail entrepreneurship, and wanted to survive the next 25 years, I would strongly suggest creating visions and creativity on how to use the internet to compete.  My idea to contribute:  I do think gun shops w/o indoor shooting ranges will go by the wayside in the next several years.   Too many people with guns now, and no where to shoot!  Indoor ranges is what the internet cannot compete against.  What if a local gun shop combined 6 mos of free or reduced gun range time with a purchase of a gun, what would that do to lure buyers, especially the 40% mentioned. 

I believe this has some validity, but here is the deal. Unions destroyed the big 3 automakers, and the fact the reliability across the board couldn't compete with Toyota, Nissan, Honda.  Also Chrysler and GM lost a lot of people when they stepped in the bed with the govt in regards to the bailout money, and the govt sold GM back to itself for pennies on the dollar compared to the tax dollars used to bail them out, and the fact a lot of people aren't comfortable with GM vehicles due to OnStar and the fact the govt. can have your vehicle disabled with a phone call. It was done in a high speed chase not long ago in Nashville with a new Camaro. Secondly, gun shops typically purchase from the same wholesalers that Wal-Mart, Cabellas, Bass Pro, etc. purchase from.  Some retailers like BassPro, Cabellas, Gander Mountain are higher than your LGS, whereas Academy is typically cheaper. Money is tight now, and if Bud's can sell a Ruger P95 for 300.00 delivered, so should Guns and Leather, D&T, Nashville Armory, etc. I had a friend who was a LEO that had his FFL and sold out of his home and online. I got to see his Jerry's Sports Center wholesale catalog and seen how much markup are in guns.  For example at the time a Taurus 85 at a LGS was running 269-329.99, it cost him to get one 177.65 new, blued. He sold them online for 249.00 as fast as he could get them. Now 100.00 don't seem like a lot of markup, but multiply that across multiple firearms, and the markup on the high dollar stuff was even greater, you could make a nice penny.  Places like Buds is volume based sales, so that is why they don't have the markup as much. not to mention they have a huge store and LEO sales division, and large range. I just posted myself asking what happened to Academy of Self Protection in Joelton, and there is a sign in the window that says "RIP Academy of Self Protection, has the years they were open and says at the bottom gone due to the price point shopper". I take they are referencing people buying from Buds, KY Gun Company and others.  The gun shops need to be more competitive in pricing, and be more than willing to match Buds and others prices or at least come within the transfer fee price calculated in, and a lot of LGS are not willing to do that. 

[LagerHead]

To me gun shops are no different than any other shop. I go where I get the best bang for the buck given all my other requirements: time, budget, need vs. want, etc. Sometimes that means I buy locally, sometimes that means I buy from the Internet, and I have driven quite a distance just to check out somebody's shop. It just depends. But there are gun shops about which we have all heard complaints that I wouldn't buy from if they were 50% cheaper and located right next door. "You know of whom I speak." 

 

So yea, all things being equal, I will support my local <whatever> shop. But I'm not going to be robbed or treated like an a-hole just to do it. 

[DWARREN123]

Another vote for Tennessee Gun Country and G&L!   :up:

[HvBikeWlTravel]

I did visit the Green Dragon in Fairview last Tues. evening. Pleasant experience. Fairly well stocked. Could not find holster I wanted but quite an effort was made by the owner. Good guy.

He is closed on Mon. but open 10-6 on Sat. I believe.

[RC3]

I love my local gun shop. They are great and helpful people. Not to mention they keep a plenty of extra AR parts just in case. 

[Smith]

[quote name="contendershooter" post="1169077" timestamp="1405533073"]I believe this has some validity, but here is the deal. Unions destroyed the big 3 automakers, and the fact the reliability across the board couldn't compete with Toyota, Nissan, Honda. Also Chrysler and GM lost a lot of people when they stepped in the bed with the govt in regards to the bailout money, and the govt sold GM back to itself for pennies on the dollar compared to the tax dollars used to bail them out, and the fact a lot of people aren't comfortable with GM vehicles due to OnStar and the fact the govt. can have your vehicle disabled with a phone call. It was done in a high speed chase not long ago in Nashville with a new Camaro. Secondly, gun shops typically purchase from the same wholesalers that Wal-Mart, Cabellas, Bass Pro, etc. purchase from. Some retailers like BassPro, Cabellas, Gander Mountain are higher than your LGS, whereas Academy is typically cheaper. Money is tight now, and if Bud's can sell a Ruger P95 for 300.00 delivered, so should Guns and Leather, D&T, Nashville Armory, etc. I had a friend who was a LEO that had his FFL and sold out of his home and online. I got to see his Jerry's Sports Center wholesale catalog and seen how much markup are in guns. For example at the time a Taurus 85 at a LGS was running 269-329.99, it cost him to get one 177.65 new, blued. He sold them online for 249.00 as fast as he could get them. Now 100.00 don't seem like a lot of markup, but multiply that across multiple firearms, and the markup on the high dollar stuff was even greater, you could make a nice penny. Places like Buds is volume based sales, so that is why they don't have the markup as much. not to mention they have a huge store and LEO sales division, and large range. I just posted myself asking what happened to Academy of Self Protection in Joelton, and there is a sign in the window that says "RIP Academy of Self Protection, has the years they were open and says at the bottom gone due to the price point shopper". I take they are referencing people buying from Buds, KY Gun Company and others. The gun shops need to be more competitive in pricing, and be more than willing to match Buds and others prices or at least come within the transfer fee price calculated in, and a lot of LGS are not willing to do that. [/quote] Most can match price, but they can't match state sales tax. In TN that is huge. 9.25% is typically close to the profit margin, so they end up not making money absorbing an additional 9.25% in the cost, even with shipping and transfer. Internet sales tax would even the field and keep far more LGS in business as pointed out by Joelton's sign.

[TripleDigitRide]

This topic is always a little tricky. As someone who spent several years working for his Father's local small business, I'm well aware of the blood, sweat, and tears that often goes into being an owner/operator.

There is no shortage of those with who think they can simply open a business and become successful. We saw a bunch of this when every Joe Schmo with a few extra dollars or decent credit decided to open a gun store during the last couple Obama scares. They saw everyone else making money, and allowed the dollar signs to muddy their thought process.

You can't expect to open a successful, long-lasting gun shop (or any other type of business) if you can't be competitive with the more established shops in the area. This has been especially true during the last several years when the vast majority of potential customers have been forced to spend more wisely.

Times are continually changing, and everyone will be forced to continually adapt. We were hearing many similar argument as the likes of Wal-Mart, Target, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. were putting many mom & pop stores out of business at alarming rates. In the end, most of us rarely step foot in the mom & pop shops who've managed to hang on. Those who've survived are either in locations which make it more convenient, or they've learned to adapt. The internet is here to stay, and it will continue to change the way a majority will buy and sell. Those who don't learn to adapt will suffer.

While the Internet will likely have a similar affect on local businesses as Wal-Mart and Lowe's, we will learn to evolve just the same. While some local gun shops will likely be forced to close, others will learn to adapt. Bud's is a perfect example. They just happened to have enough foresight to stay ahead of the curve. They have brick & mortar shops, as well as a thriving online presence. If I'm not mistaken, they are actually in the process of opening other brick & mortar locations. I'm actually surprised at least one of the shops in this area hasn't had followed suit.

I highly doubt we'll ever be without our fair share of local shops. I live in Springfield, and there are nearly a dozen gun shops within a 30 minute or so drive. Extend that drive a few extra minutes, and the amount of available shops will likely at least double. Frankly, for multiple reasons, most of them aren't worth visiting. Many of them could close today, and most of us would see no negative impact.

It sucks to see someone lose their business, but unfortunately that's the nature of the beast. My father started his moving company before the Internet was being used by everyone. Once every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a pickup truck and no overhead started advertising for free on websites like Craigslist, he began to see a big decrease in business. Most potential customers wanted to be moved as cheaply as possible, and he could no longer compete. He was able to see the writing on the wall, and decided sell the company. The buyer was even less prepared to compete, and the business closed for good. It's sad, but that's the way it works.

[TripleDigitRide]

Most can match price, but they can't match state sales tax. In TN that is huge. 9.25% is typically close to the profit margin, so they end up not making money absorbing an additional 9.25% in the cost, even with shipping and transfer.Internet sales tax would even the field and keep far more LGS in business as pointed out by Joelton's sign.

That's why adapting is crucial. I suspect most of the well known Internet retailers sell to far more customers who live out of state than they do local residents.

[TripleDigitRide]

The fact that Bud's is supposedly opening a shop in Tennessee should be helpful to local dealers. On the other hand, there are a few other online retails who will continue to be extremely difficult to compete with.

[DaveTN]

Like any business; dealers will, come and go. When the prices of used jumped to the prices of new; I quit buying used and bought new. When dealers were acting like they were doing me a favor by making a $500 gun available to me locally for $600 I went to the internet.

Now the tide is changing. There are quite a few more gun dealers in the MidState than there were just a few years ago. I don’t need to see a gun to buy it; I don’t need good service from a dealer: I need them to sell me what I want at a fair price. Service and support? I buy mostly Smith & Wesson; they are my service and support.

The last gun I bought new I got a PM from a forum member letting me know someone had it at a good price. I called them and ask if they would hold it for me until I got off work and drove the 60 miles to their store. They made me give them a credit card number for a nonrefundable deposit which took me a little by surprise; but whatever. I refuse to deal with the dealers that are charge outlandish prices; even when they are a couple of miles from me. And I wish they would go out of business so a good shop would open here.

If gun dealers are hurting I would guess it’s because either they can’t get inventory or they are overpriced; because we all know guns are selling.

There is no government agenda going on here, that’s tin foil hat non sense; we did this. We also created the ammo shortage. Ammo will back in supply as soon as those who got caught off guard get their supplies built up.

Guns are already in pretty good supply. The problem with gun availability is distributors. They serve no purpose and add no value; they need to be gone out of the supply chain. Some dealers have good contacts with distributors and some don’t, I would guess it’s based on performance and who you know.

I bought many guns from Buds and CDNN, but my last three or four have been from dealers, not local, but in the MidState that sold to me at fair prices.

So I don’t know about anyone else here, but I’m not one of the tire kickers that goes to guns stores and paws all over guns while arguing price over something they have no intention of buying. I’m a gun buyer and I’m a little pizzed about all this bellyaching that we are turning our backs on gun dealers; give me a break.

[DaveTN]

The fact that Bud's is supposedly opening a shop in Tennessee should be helpful to local dealers. On the other hand, there are a few other online retails who will continue to be extremely difficult to compete with.

Yes it will help local dealers because now people will have to pay our BAST up front whether they order on-line or not. But if the dealers don’t have the guns we want; price won’t matter. Buds prices have slowly been rising over the last few years; someone else will step in I’m sure once the supply chain opens up a little more.

[Oh Shoot]

....While the Internet will likely have a similar affect on local businesses as Wal-Mart and Lowe's, .....

 

Wal-Mart and Lowes (and most every other large chain) also sell online, ya know. I do believe more than half of Gunbroker sales are also from brick and mortar gunstores.

 

- OS

Edited July 20, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[TripleDigitRide]

Wal-Mart and Lowes (and most every other large chain) also sell online, ya know. I do believe more than half of Gunbroker sales are also from brick and mortar gunstores.

- OS

Yep. They must know a little something.

[btq96r]

I do believe more than half of Gunbroker sales are also from brick and mortar gunstores.

 

- OS

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it's upwards of 70-75% for complete firearms on gunbroker.  It seems every firearm I look at on there comes from a small store somewhere in these United States.  It's just the modern way for them to let people window shop and buy if they see something they like.

[Mike A]

I try to spend my money with those businesses I would miss if they closed.  That sentiment goes for the LGS as much if not more than retailers in other lines of goods.

 

I live in town.  I can’t shoot on my own property and don’t have a convenient place to shoot outdoors.  However, I do have three indoor ranges within a couple miles of my house.  I’m a relative newbie and appreciate the advice I’ve received at the LGS.  I appreciate what the LGS has to sell beyond the goods they offer.  I’d miss ‘em if they were gone.

 

I want a bargain as much as anyone else.  Lest I seem hypocritical, I will admit that I have done and still do some e-commerce.  However, as time has gone by, my e-commerce purchases are driven more and more by availability issues rather than purely price.

 

LGS(s) are engaged in a business and if their business model doesn’t work they’ll fail.  I understand and accept this.  However I also understand that a good LGS store is likely to have at least some of the following expenses (and likely lots more that don’t immediately come to mind) above and beyond the typical e-tailer:  1) Rent on retail friendly space.  2)  Knowledgeable staff sufficient to staff retail hours that probably has to be paid better than pick-and-pack warehouse help or big box retail clerks.  3)  A range that admittedly opens up additional streams of income but still has associated build-out, maintenance and liability insurance costs.  To expect a LGS to compete dollar-for-dollar with a warehouse operation or some fellow making some extra cash running a friends and family / e-commerce / gun show operation out of his basement isn’t realistic.  I take this into account and appreciate the LGS(s) that try to get close.    

 

I don’t want to tell anyone how to spend their money.  At the same time, we all vote with our dollars.  What we support flourishes and what we don’t disappears.   

Edited July 21, 2014 by Mike A