Has Harley Davidson made a mistake?

[battleop]

Kind of abandons the loud pipes save lives concept. I think it's a mistake.

 

As a neighbor of an A Hole that has one I hope they catch on.  

[bersaguy]

Harley Davidson is coming very close to building a Crotch Rocket which will appeal very well with the younger generations that are looking for a Bike to ride. Indians are back and they have that Spyder 3 wheeler out there which I saw my first one of those on the road the other day. Harley is realizing that the generations that love the traditional Hogs are going by the way side as time passes by so does traditions. I have a buddy that still rides a Hog but has his sweet heart parked in his living room. # 5 of the 100 Bikes built on the100th Anniversary of Harley-Davidson. He put his order it and paid for it 2 years before they began building them to get a number below #10 and got # 5. It has I think 3 miles on it as he trailer-ed it home from Boswells.   He is my age and up until this year rode often but I have noticed he is slowing down and the bike he is riding he has kept longer than any he has every had so either he likes it a lot or he is not planning on riding as much. That's my guess. I think his old body it giving him those little indicators telling him to "quit beating me up!".........................jmho

[HvBikeWlTravel]

I think the V-Rod was an attempt by Harley to make the most uncomfortable bike in the world.  :rofl:

But the  "prize" continues to be given annually to ...................... Ducati!

[DaveTN]

Harley has been into many things, all in a effort to make money with the mystique of claiming to be American made.

Mystique, claiming??

I’m pretty sure if I took all the foreign parts off my Harley; it wouldn’t start. Does that make it a ricer?

Now don’t get me wrong I grew up on motorcycles and they were ricers; 13 Kawasaki’s and one Honda. I was 40 before I could afford a Harley, but from my teens I knew I would have one someday.

[Spots]

As a neighbor of an A Hole that has one I hope they catch on.

Lmao. yeah loud pipes can get old. My bike has drag pipes on it. A lot of guys run them just to be assholes, but they really do help you get noticed by drivers on the street, which is a very good thing. I think Harley has learned that its either diversify or die. The new models are all aimed at taking some of the market back from the Japanese.

Tapatalk ate my spelling

[Murgatroy]

One guestion is why do people buy electric vehicles? Switching over for a minute to the car world, I think a good number of folks buy the electric/hybrid cars for the fuel cost savings more so than the "green" factor. To me this kinda goes out the window since most motorcycles already get good gas mileage.

But you are looking at it all wrong.

 

My Fiesta gets 46 MPG real world, not EPA, 46MPG with me driving it down the road. My Shadow got 50MPG real world, not EPA. Me riding down the road.

 

My Fiesta can fit four people. My Shadow could only fit two. That means in a pinching and going scenario, I am getting 188MPG/P in my loaded Fiesta and only 100MPG/P on my Shadow.

 

Now, since most Americans only drive with one person per vehicle, that is not as relevant a point as it could be, but it is still something not to be overlooked.

[RC3]

But you are looking at it all wrong.

 

My Fiesta gets 46 MPG real world, not EPA, 46MPG with me driving it down the road. My Shadow got 50MPG real world, not EPA. Me riding down the road.

 

My Fiesta can fit four people. My Shadow could only fit two. That means in a pinching and going scenario, I am getting 188MPG/P in my loaded Fiesta and only 100MPG/P on my Shadow.

 

Now, since most Americans only drive with one person per vehicle, that is not as relevant a point as it could be, but it is still something not to be overlooked.

Sell your fiesta and buy the fiesta st. TURBO MAN. 

[Ugly]

I didn't know Fiestas were still on the road

[Murgatroy]

Sell your fiesta and buy the fiesta st. TURBO MAN. 

It is my wife's car, she can't drive a manual. I drive a Mustang.

[Good_Steward]

And don't forget about the Italian Harley 2-strokes in the late 40's to the mid 70's. A mistake (?) where the japs did it much better.
 
Harley has been into many things, all in a effort to make money with the mystique of claiming to be American made.

Aermacchi....

[Good_Steward]

A winning formula can last for a long time, but eventually you gotta change or die. Harley actually reminds me of Smith & Wesson a bit. S&W revolvers which built the company, are still top notch and their wonder nines were solid as well. But without the diversification into the polymer pistols and the AR's over recent history, they would be a dying company falling into niche market status. It is time for HD to innovate or get left behind.

This is also the reason I ride Victory motorcycles now.

[Good_Steward]

But you are looking at it all wrong.
 
My Fiesta gets 46 MPG real world, not EPA, 46MPG with me driving it down the road. My Shadow got 50MPG real world, not EPA. Me riding down the road.
 
My Fiesta can fit four people. My Shadow could only fit two. That means in a pinching and going scenario, I am getting 188MPG/P in my loaded Fiesta and only 100MPG/P on my Shadow.
 
Now, since most Americans only drive with one person per vehicle, that is not as relevant a point as it could be, but it is still something not to be overlooked.

I am sure you know that most motorcycles are not purchased because they get awesome gas mileage. If that was the case, everyone would ride scooters and the newest iteration of the little Honda 500s that go around 70mpg.

I honestly don't give a damn if my Cross Country only got 25 mpg, even thought it gets around 45. I can also damn sure promise you I would rather get 45mpg out of my bike than 45mpg out of a Focus or Fiesta.

[Murgatroy]

I am sure you know that most motorcycles are not purchased because they get awesome gas mileage. If that was the case, everyone would ride scooters and the newest iteration of the little Honda 500s that go around 70mpg.

I honestly don't give a damn if my Cross Country only got 25 mpg, even thought it gets around 45. I can also damn sure promise you I would rather get 45mpg out of my bike than 45mpg out of a Focus or Fiesta.

You are aware that my post was in disagreement with someone that was proposing a motorcycle as an economical and green decision, right?

[Peace]

I would come much closer to buying this than I would a traditional Harley.   .... and I "get" and love the art, history, and vibe of Harley.   

 

 

- as for what some may or may not like about it.  It will always, always, always be capable of more torque - throughout the RPM range than any combustion engine that would fit on a bike.

 

- it should be one smooth ride.  I would love to check it out!

 

-maintenance ought to be minimal, daily commute expense would be crazy low.   I would just need some strobes all over the thing to be "visible" in the lane.

 

Good move.  -this shows they are world-leaders in their industry - I'm hoping this is the beginning of great things for them.

[RC3]

It is my wife's car, she can't drive a manual. I drive a Mustang.

Keep the fiesta. Burn the mustang. 

[No_0ne]

And one more thing. Graphene based batteries, even now at the beginning of development, can already store 6x more energy than a the best battery on the market of comparable size. This means those electric cars that are getting ~200 miles per charge would be able to go 1,200 miles per charge. And because graphene based batteries are like capacitors they do not require hours to charge like conventional batteries. The graphene based batteries are also significantly lighter which would also increase mileage.

Graphene is what was needed to get electric vehicle costs down. The majority of the additional cost of elect vehicles is the batteries. But because graphene is so cheap to produce the cost difference should be significantly reduced.

 

I've read a little about using graphene to make quick-charge higher capacity batteries, but I can foresee a real problem with the scenario of utilizing them in higher power applications like car batteries.  To get the charge times down in high amperage batteries, the charging system will have to output either much higher amperage, much higher voltage, or both to provide the requisite energy for charging.  Electric and hybrid vehicles already face the problem of limited charging facilities, newer types of batteries requiring different charging systems will have even more limited availability.

[tnguy]

-maintenance ought to be minimal, daily commute expense would be crazy low.   I would just need some strobes all over the thing to be "visible" in the lane.

 

 

That "loud pipes" thing is a crock anyway.

[Peace]

That "loud pipes" thing is a crock anyway.

 

I tend to embrace managing risk.  I have a strobe on my road bike (human-powered), and I would want strobes on a motorcycle... wouldn't ride loud pipes (I've been annoyed too many times), but even if I did, I would have a mini-strobe, front, back, and sides.

[tnguy]

I can see some merit in the strobes. Though people will turn in front of you while looking right at you anyway.

[Ugly]

That "loud pipes" thing is a crock anyway.

Guessing you mean just an excuse to be obnoxious. Me, I've run loud pipes for the last 20 years, not drag pipes, they're a waste of back pressure but louder than stock. I believe they help, granted, a lot of society seemed to have lost responsibility for their actions when it comes to driving. Many don't even see flashing lights with sirens blaring coming up behind them much less a little light from a bike. But the pipes do help more than nothing.

[DaveTN]

That "loud pipes" thing is a crock anyway.

I’ve been riding all my life and my experience as a rider and as a cop that worked a lot of traffic is that anything that makes a cager more aware of your presence may help. A lot of motorcycles wrecks are drivers changing lanes into a bike because they have a blind spot in their sides mirror and don’t know the bike is there. If they don’t see you it may help if they hear you.

What’s your experience that makes you think it’s a crock?

[Ugly]

I will say this, the pipes help but more often than not the cage driver isn't paying attention, I've surprise too many people when I come up beside them, pathetic. I'm on the defense constantly and stay away from as many risky situations as I can.

[DaveTN]

I can see some merit in the strobes. Though people will turn in front of you while looking right at you anyway.

There are people that will turn in front of you intentionally. But there are some that don’t see you because they are talking on their cell phone and can’t process all the information around them. Then someone gets to die because a driver thinks they need to talk on the phone will driving.

[tnguy]

I've been riding street for longer than it was legal and driving for nearly as long. I notice bikes and I notice when I don't notice them. When I notice loud pipes, the motorcycle is typically not in any position that it would be advantageous. Between car insulation, the stereo, the inverse-square law, sonic obstructions and being focused on other traffic, the directionality of the sound (typically backwards from the direction the bike is heading), those "loud pipes" are often not all that noticeable anyway. Except to those people outside or in their homes just trying to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet.

 

I've followed the argument for nearly three decades and started out of the opinion myself but the truth is, there's no supporting evidence. The best thing you can do as a motorcyclist is be situationally aware, avoid blind spots, wear a helmet and gear and don't ride out to a bar and load up on beer.

 

As to the "just an excuse", I'm sure that's true for some but there are many, I'm sure, who are simply sincerely wrong.

 

Now, it's a nice day. Time to do some riding... :)

Edited June 22, 2014 by tnguy

[Dolomite_supafly]

I've read a little about using graphene to make quick-charge higher capacity batteries, but I can foresee a real problem with the scenario of utilizing them in higher power applications like car batteries.  To get the charge times down in high amperage batteries, the charging system will have to output either much higher amperage, much higher voltage, or both to provide the requisite energy for charging.  Electric and hybrid vehicles already face the problem of limited charging facilities, newer types of batteries requiring different charging systems will have even more limited availability.

Pretty sure that was what was said when the first internal combustion engine came to market. How could anyone put a liquid in every city to power cars but they did. Before the internal combustion engine almost all vehicles were some sort of electric but at the time it was easier to run a liquid fuel. The idea of providing electricity for an electric vehicle is much easier, and cheaper, option than some sort of liquid fuel.