Has Harley Davidson made a mistake?

[Murgatroy]

Harley is introducing 500cc water cooled bikes, too. Electric bikes have been around, but now they have a bit of legitimacy.

 

 

I think this is exactly what it would take to bring Harley Davidson into the twenty-first century.

 

There are a lot of cats that want to ride something reliable, nice, good looking, and the brand is less important than the mission. H-D isn't the largest manufacturer in the world, Honda is. Harley just has some of the most closed minded fan bois, just like the Glock or 1911 or Sig mindset that nothing else is good enough.

 

Harley is a brand, not a bike.

 

The Livewire might be enough to make them a bike again.

 

Or at least push someone else to make a better one, which is a nice side effect of innovation.

[Ugly]

The Harley opinions are up there with Glock opinions :ugh:

 

Harley went corporate a few years ago hence the slicing off of Buell as well as a bunch of other business moves, mostly bad ones in my opinion especially getting rid of Buell. 

 

I think they might be trying to fill a niche for law enforcement since that community has found to like the sneaky aspect of quiet mobility, the Zero discovered that.

Perhaps the corporate folks are climate greenies. If the company wanted to fill a need that would be a good quality dual sport such as the KLR, if they wanted to make a dent in the emission market they would offer diesel versions too, that would sell me. I do dig me the feel of a Harley, ya either love them or hate em and I love em. They are way behind the times with technology and thats fine with me, as a mech and owner I would rather wrench on the old bone shaker then the frequently updated foreign bike platforms. Hydraulic lifters were stock on Harleys since 1948 and for the life of me I can't understand why I would have to adjust the valve train on a brand new bike. Give that a go on a Ducati and get back to me.

 

Anyway, unless this electric bike gets 7-800 miles on a charge I wouldn't even consider it and can't imagine many other people would either.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The Harley opinions are up there with Glock opinions :ugh:

 

Harley went corporate a few years ago hence the slicing off of Buell as well as a bunch of other business moves, mostly bad ones in my opinion especially getting rid of Buell. 

 

I think they might be trying to fill a niche for law enforcement since that community has found to like the sneaky aspect of quiet mobility, the Zero discovered that.

Perhaps the corporate folks are climate greenies. If the company wanted to fill a need that would be a good quality dual sport such as the KLR, if they wanted to make a dent in the emission market they would offer diesel versions too, that would sell me. I do dig me the feel of a Harley, ya either love them or hate em and I love em. They are way behind the times with technology and thats fine with me, as a mech and owner I would rather wrench on the old bone shaker then the frequently updated foreign bike platforms. Hydraulic lifters were stock on Harleys since 1948 and for the life of me I can't understand why I would have to adjust the valve train on a brand new bike. Give that a go on a Ducati and get back to me.

 

Anyway, unless this electric bike gets 7-800 miles on a charge I wouldn't even consider it and can't imagine many other people would either.

 

Name a bike that can go 700+ miles on a tank.

 

I think it is a great thing. They are trying to bring in a younger generation to riding motorcycles which isn't a bad thing. Electric motors generate their max torque from the first revolution unlike gasoline engine that require the revs to build.

[Ugly]

You don't need to go 700 miles on a gas bike, you simply gas and go. The electric charge process won't be that quick. 

 

The BMW GSA1200 has a 7 gal tank and I have read about some diesel KLR's as well as a diesel Bullet, these would all go further than my butt can handle however the greater distance between fill ups is quite handy. 

 

Personally I couldn't handle 700 miles at a shot on anything but I'd hate to be out in the boonies looking for a plug for my scooter. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Ugly

[Murgatroy]

Real world range of 200 miles would be more than enough on a charge. Even for a long commute, you would be hard pressed to do more than that in a day. For touring, obviously an electric bike would be out of the question, unless you were hot swapping like you can with the Zero.

 

 

I am a gear head. I like driving. I like tinkering.

 

But I am being realistic here. I want to continue to know this pleasure. I want my daughter, and her children to know what it is like to drive or ride through the mountains. I want to do it without hiding a Red Barchetta in a barn so they can come out on the weekends.

 

Fossil fuels are getting too expensive, and they won't last forever. If we can embrace and support innovation in alternate fuels, alternate energy sources, there is a chance that we can still have user operated mechanical vehicles in the future, and not all mass transportation.

 

Electric vehicles are today's ticket to tomorrow, and as the technology becomes adopted, it will get better. Just like the automobile always has.

 

I applaud H-D for doing this. I applaud Elon Musk for releasing his patents. I hope that others can follow their lead and bring real change, and not just a show pony to the yard.

[Ugly]

Good point and vision but fossil fuels can last 100+ years if we wanted and they could be a lot cheaper. It's all politics and greed.

I'd like to see more hydrogen development personally. Edited June 20, 2014 by Ugly

[TripleDigitRide]

While this isn't my kinda bike, I like the idea. Seeing as this is the first time I've heard about this bike, I suspect it's nothing more than a prototype. HD will want to get plenty of feedback before heading to production. As far as battery life goes, I don't see the range being more than 50-70 miles, tops. Those batteries are heavy, so they are going to be forced to keep the battery fairly small.

[DaveTN]

I’m a Harley rider. I laughed when I saw the V-Rod. I didn’t think it would sell, but I was wrong.

Harley is a pretty amazing company. I doubt they just decided to do this. Apparently the top people in marketing and sales in the industry think there is a market or they can create one. Good for them.

Anything an American company can do to keep jobs here and offer Americans products made here is a good thing for us all.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are advances being made very day in how to store energy. Graphene is the most promising at the moment. It is a super capacitor that can take a full large instantly and then meter it out. They charged a small piece of grapheme for a couple of seconds and it ran a light source for over 5 minutes. And graphene is super light, super conductive, super cheap to make and once the bugs are worked out will be better than any battery on the market today. They say that if you use it in cell phone you can charge the cell phone in a few seconds and be good to go. This will make filling up a car, or motorcycle, battery quicker than filling up a car. It will also be substantially cheaper to fill up compared to fossil fuels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo_1Y_yJZ-o
And remember these graphene strips are one (1) atom thick so imagine how many can be stacked together if it was the same size as a traditional battery.

There are even home grown scientists making graphene based batteries because it is so easy and cheap to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABZ6Sskf-0A


Not sure why these are not imbedding but they are definitely worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-AF7_Blj_k


And graphene is the wave of the future according to IBM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWxn_a0dEKI

[Dolomite_supafly]

And one more thing. Graphene based batteries, even now at the beginning of development, can already store 6x more energy than a the best battery on the market of comparable size. This means those electric cars that are getting ~200 miles per charge would be able to go 1,200 miles per charge. And because graphene based batteries are like capacitors they do not require hours to charge like conventional batteries. The graphene based batteries are also significantly lighter which would also increase mileage.

Graphene is what was needed to get electric vehicle costs down. The majority of the additional cost of elect vehicles is the batteries. But because graphene is so cheap to produce the cost difference should be significantly reduced.

[Trekbike]

One guestion is why do people buy electric vehicles? Switching over for a minute to the car world, I think a good number of folks buy the electric/hybrid cars for the fuel cost savings more so than the "green" factor. To me this kinda goes out the window since most motorcycles already get good gas mileage. So back to the reason for my OP. I think most riders buy Harleys for the image and to me it doesn't fit the typical Harley image. Again, I think they will have limited success with this bike. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[BigK]

I don't think HD expects to cannibalize one single current customer with this new product. They know their customer base won't be moved by this product. They're clearly going after new blood. Adventuresome environmentally-conscience guys (young and mid-lifers), who like the idea of 2 wheels, but hate the noise pollution as much as the exhaust fumes. Alternative fueled vehicles will happen eventually, whether we want them or not. The early entries into the market will have an advantage. Plus, what does it hurt? The classic biker type has no reason to fear his brand is being diluted by this product or its target consumer.

[kieefer]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1160695" timestamp="1403264016"] Anything an American company can do to keep jobs here and offer Americans products made here is a good thing for us all.[/quote] Harley has gone global and have sent many jobs overseas. All due to cost and gov. regulations, so don't fool yourself.

[AdotOdot4]

I'm definitely not in HD's target demographic, but this is the type of design that might bring me over to their brand. I mostly ride to commute and even weekend rides are less than 150 miles so I don't need huge battery capacity.

[hipower]

I don't think HD expects to cannibalize one single current customer with this new product. They know their customer base won't be moved by this product. They're clearly going after new blood. Adventuresome environmentally-conscience guys (young and mid-lifers), who like the idea of 2 wheels, but hate the noise pollution as much as the exhaust fumes. Alternative fueled vehicles will happen eventually, whether we want them or not. The early entries into the market will have an advantage. Plus, what does it hurt? The classic biker type has no reason to fear his brand is being diluted by this product or its target consumer.

Well said, bigk. That's pretty much how I felt about it when I first saw the post. It's not a bad looking bike, but what do I know. As far as the styling, it sure seems to be modeled similar to the import bikes of today.

[tnguy]

HD is in a weird place. They are kinda stuck in the past with their "tough guy biker" image yet they sell HD branded aftershave, pet toys and frisbees. They really need to move forward and this could be a good move for them. They need something after they dumped Buell like yesterday's newspaper.

[2.ooohhh]

Harley has gone global and have sent many jobs overseas. All due to cost and gov. regulations, so don't fool yourself.

Which jobs? The jobs producing bikes for overseas markets?

[Good_Steward]

I like it. Good on Harley Davidson for not just sitting on their asses and churning out the exact same thing year after year. I'd like to see this actually show up in showrooms.

You mean like the last 111 years?

 

Just sayin'

 

Actually, not that long. Just since the 50's

[Good_Steward]

What's next a Harley scooter?

 

No, but there was this...

 

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/mcy/4524482862.html

[peejman]

Which jobs? The jobs producing bikes for overseas markets?

 

 

Manufacturing of the a large number of the sub components (forgings, castings, rubber, plastic, some finished assemblies), just like the auto makers.  While the final assembly may be here, the pieces come from all over the world. 

[Ugly]

They've been importing components for many many years, even back in the day when only two plants existed. The quality f the imported stuff is better than it used to be too. I've got a stock set of cast rims that are made so pourus, the company decided to use inner tubes so the air didn't leak through the rim.
They still work fine though :)

[kieefer]

No, but there was this...

 

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/mcy/4524482862.html

 

And don't forget about the Italian Harley 2-strokes in the late 40's to the mid 70's. A mistake (?) where the japs did it much better.

 

Harley has been into many things, all in a effort to make money with the mystique of claiming to be American made.

[RC3]

I think we should kick start a cold fusion bike. 30 years to a tank. BEAT THAT OIL CORPORATIONS!!!!

[Sam1]

While they might have some success with this new model, I think they've made a marketing mistake.    I'm not a Harley rider but don't see this would have much appeal to what I think most Harley riders are looking for in a motorcycle.   

 

What say yee?

 

 

Just creating a product for another sector, like Ford produces Mustangs and SUV's... not everyone wants the same thing.

 

As far as the electric bikes themselves, I think they are bad ass.  Anyone who says otherwise has not seen the killacycle that turns 0-60 in under 1 second and uses less than 10 cents worth of electricity to turn a sub 8 second 1/4 mile time.  Can't wait until the technology is around to have a motorcycle that can run 200mph on batteries and have reserves long enough to last a few hours.

 

<edit> obviously not talking about enough power to be running 200mph for hours

Edited June 20, 2014 by Sam1

[Chucktshoes]

You mean like the last 111 years?

 

Just sayin'

 

Actually, not that long. Just since the 50's

A winning formula can last for a long time, but eventually you gotta change or die. Harley actually reminds me of Smith & Wesson a bit. S&W revolvers which built the company, are still top notch and their wonder nines were solid as well. But without the diversification into the polymer pistols and the AR's over recent history, they would be a dying company falling into niche market status. It is time for HD to innovate or get left behind.