Prepper gone bad

[Luke E.]

Which ones? License Plate Production Personnel Rock Reduction Specialist Guest star role in "Orange is the new Black" Or the perennial favorite, Bunkmate

 

:rofl:

[Luke E.]

 I wonder if we'll ever know if they really find any of this "vast stockpile" of weapons or if no stockpile is found, will they just "donate" a stockpile so that it doesn't look bad on them? Or if there were actually any Explosive devices found or if they have and actual evidence besides the hear-say that he had any of these items of illegally purchase any of the firearms "stockpile".. I want to think that the FBI will be on the up and up here but I tend to believe that they aren't going to want to make a big showing and come up empty handed.. What I hate more than anything is that there is a need for these types of post, back when my grandfather was in law enforcement the officers were widely accepted as being good men that were there to see that the law was followed and had no interest in fooling with anyone that wasn't breaking the law. Now days it's just not that way, sure most officers are straight laced but there is a large enough percentage of bad apples that there is an overwhelming sense of distrust both within and outside of gun enthusiast, prepper and political circles.The "bad apples" in law enforcement, politics, etc... have done major damage to the image of the whole and will take a great effort on the part of the good ones to ever start healing those wounds and start to regain trust.. Does anyone else see that happening? As for this Winters fellow, I surely hope that if no hard evidence is found, he is sent home to carry on.

[Ugly]

My opinion is the leadership is driving an agenda, like the IRS and EPA. I do think the majority of LEO are there for the right reasons, probably a very small group trying to make a name for themselves or have short man syndrome. I've spent a good number of years in Jacksonville FL and from what I've seen the LEO have been top notch, rarely a black eye incident.
So my opinion is those with the fed badge are more questionable this day and age.

I'm sure the prepped will be charged with something till the news forgets about him.

[npgunner]

I mean I'm just sayin' ... this guy doesn't look to be in peak physical condition and he was able to runaway from an FBI SWAT team? Maybe they should stop worrying about the preppers and hit the treadmill ...

[DaveTN]

The Judge said he is too dangerous to get bond. I wonder what info he has that caused him to make that determination.

[Someotherguy]

The Judge said he is too dangerous to get bond. I wonder what info he has that caused him to make that determination.

 

He could throw a can of tuna at federal agents maybe..? :yum:

[JAB]

The Judge said he is too dangerous to get bond. I wonder what info he has that caused him to make that determination.

 

If they just let him go then other people might get it into their heads that citizens of this country have rights?

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="JAB" post="1161750" timestamp="1403530420"]If they just let him go then other people might get it into their heads that citizens of this country have rights?[/quote] And that's something we just can't have. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JAB]

I can understand this fellow's urge to flee...to not want his property searched...to be afraid of the government LEOs but ff there was nothing improper about the search warrant then he should have complied and then settled the matter in court.  If there WAS something improper about the search warrant then he still should have complied and then settled the matter in court. In short; these kinds of things aren't settled "in the street' or standing at the front door of your house or by running.

 

You are right but I think this guy's perspective also has to be considered.  People probably look at him as a paranoid guy who thinks the government is coming after him - except that it turns out that he wasn't so paranoid and the government really was coming after him.  If a person's greatest fear is of being bitten by a snake then if they open their front door and see a bunch of snakes crawling around on the ground then they probably aren't going to rationally stand there and try to figure out if any of the snakes are venomous - they are going to run.  In that same vein, i wouldn't be surprised if the feds wanted this guy to either start shooting or run so that they could play this non-event of a case for all it is worth and create a reason to arrest him even if they really had no reason to arrest him.

[Ranger431]

If you exercise your rights to criticize this administration, you will be targeted. It's been the norm and will continue to be.

[Hershmeister]

"Even the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages was tolerant by modern standards. Part of the reason for this was that in the past no government had the power to keep its citizens under constant surveillance. The invention of print, however, made it easier to manipulate public opinion, and the film and the radio carried the process further. With the development of television, and the technical advance which made it possible to receive and transmit simultaneously on the same instrument, private life came to an end." 1984, Part 2, Chapter 9, pg. 206-7

[lunarpowered]

I thought actual evidence is needed for a warrant and not just word of mouth.

[Sidinman]

I thought actual evidence is needed for a warrant and not just word of mouth.

Naw not anymore.

[tnhawk]

I can understand this fellow's urge to flee...to not want his property searched...to be afraid of the government LEOs but ff there was nothing improper about the search warrant then he should have complied and then settled the matter in court.... In short; these kinds of things aren't settled "in the street' or standing at the front door of your house or by running....The Constitution protects us from unreasonable searches, not all searches but it's a judge who decides whether the search was or wasn't reasonable (note I used past tense)....

If you have unlimited funding to afford the proper legal defense, that's a good way to settle a problem.  Most ordinary citizens don't.

[E4 No More]

I smell Waco.

[E4 No More]

Reminder: Democrat administrations have a history of going after what they deem as "Religious Right Wing" groups even to the point of setting them up by selling them a shotgun just barely under the legal length.

[RobertNashville]

If you have unlimited funding to afford the proper legal defense, that's a good way to settle a problem.  Most ordinary citizens don't.

So is one only supposed to act reasonably and abide by the rule of law if one has a big bank account and can afford the best attorneys and everyone else should just run away?

I can believe that there may come a time when all levels of government are so utterly corrupt that we can trust nothing they do and it will be necessary to assume that the rule of law is completely meaningless.  Under such conditions, "running away" or "fighting to your last bullet" might actually be the appropriate course of action. However, I don't believe we have reached that state of corruption in this country and baring such corruption; running away was stupid and it was certainly reasonable for the authorities to pursue him and consider him a fugitive.

 

I admit that I haven't done a deep dive into all the details here but as far as I can tell, the authorities followed the Constitution in obtaining a warrant. As such, a person is expected to react like reasonable, law-abiding citizen which means that when someone shows up with a valid search warrant we don't run away; we let them search and we deal with whatever comes.

[Luke E.]

I can agree with part of what you stated but the last line, "we let them search and we deal with whatever comes" ? You have fun with that. I'm not saying that I'm running if someone comes to the door but that is not open ended. If I ever feel like I am about to be wrongfully detained and that unless I scoot things will get much worse then I'm outta here. Maybe our whole system isn't to the point of corruption that you described but having personally witnessed an officer stick a bag of dope in a handcuffed mans shirt pocket then pull it back out declaring what he'd just found, you must understand where my skeptisim comes from. Would the guy I speak of been just as well to have run? Maybe. I only point this out to make the point that there are situations that might warrant taking your chances.
Also, I'm pretty sure when the others above questioned the constitutionality of the search it was based more on their doubt that the warrant should have ever been issued.

[RobertNashville]

There may have been something wrong with how the warrant was obtained but I doubt that anyone here has any idea (and even less facts) about whether the warrant was properly issued and based on competent evidence or not. As such, I'm not going to jump to conclusions and assume that it wasn't done properly. :)

Of course there are corrupt law enforcement officers (from local police to FBI) and there are corrupt judges as well but that isn't, in my opinion, justification for running away unless we have substantive reason to do so - the Constitution specifically allows law enforcement to search our homes, belongings and person so long as they follow the rules so unless we know that the law enforcement officer is operation out of compliance with the Constitution we have an obligation to follow the rule of law as well; at least that's how I see it.

Edited July 2, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Ugly]

Our government isn't following the rule of law, the head at least. 

 

That makes me think this guy was worried about being set up. I hope the truth comes out for him.

[Clod Stomper]

There may have been something wrong with how the warrant was obtained but I doubt that anyone here has any idea (and even less facts) about whether the warrant was properly issued and based on competent evidence or not. As such, I'm not going to jump to conclusions and assume that it wasn't done properly. :)

Of course there are corrupt law enforcement officers (from local police to FBI) and there are corrupt judges as well but that isn't, in my opinion, justification for running away unless we have substantive reason to do so - the Constitution specifically allows law enforcement to search our homes, belongings and person so long as they follow the rules so unless we know that the law enforcement officer is operation out of compliance with the Constitution we have an obligation to follow the rule of law as well; at least that's how I see it.

 

I wish you luck in your future endeavors.

 

Edit:  If I KNOW that I have done nothing wrong.  If I also KNOW that our gov't is corrupt.  If I KNOW that they have a history of leaving dead bodies or worse, mutilated children from "no-knock" warrants.  Then, I'm gonna GTFO ASAP.  

 

"So long as they follow the rules"  HA!  They haven't had rules for the last 22 years.  Probably more.  (I'm talking about the feds)

 

"Unless we know that the law enforcement officer is out of compliance with the Constitution"  I have little doubt that this is the case in this situation.  Maybe "we" don't know it, but the "perp" almost certainly knew it.  

 

Did they find anything incriminating on him?  I'm genuinely curious.  I haven't been following the case.  If not, they shouldn't have been there.

 

Edit Part Deux:  Snark stricken.  I shouldn't be up past my bedtime.  

 

But this sort of thing genuinely infuriates and scares me.  This could quite literally be one of us.  I know that I have nothing illegal in my home, but if word gets out that I'm a "prepper" (I hate that term), then suddenly I'm on the radar and the assumption suddenly is that there must be illegal weapons of some sort.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Clod Stomper

[Hershmeister]

Prepper took a plea deal http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/valrico-prepper-winters-takes-plea-deal-in-federal-gun-case/2193774

[TMF]

Prepper took a plea dealhttp://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/valrico-prepper-winters-takes-plea-deal-in-federal-gun-case/2193774

Ya make a few dozen booby traps and buy some firearms for felons and all of a sudden the Feds want to throw you in jail. What's the world coming to?

[gregintenn]

We currently have a thread in the loung about making homemade explosives. Surely most of us are on one or more watchlists. Do you all see this sort of thing happening to some of us in the future?

[DaveTN]

We currently have a thread in the loung about making homemade explosives. Surely most of us are on one or more watchlists. Do you all see this sort of thing happening to some of us in the future?

DHS has plans of controlling ammonium nitrate among other things and adding laws about explosives, it was scheduled for this summer. So if you are violating laws and posting it on the net you might get someone’s attention. It is my understanding right now it’s illegal to make it up unless you use it right then, so I guess some have a potential for having a problem.