How to: SBR/SBS

[glowdotGlock]

I am interested in applying for my tax stamp for a short barrel shotgun. I have tried to do some google searching but I would like to get your input. Where and how do I apply? I already have the firearm and the money. I have heard once you apply it may take up to 90 days. Any help or stories of your experiences would be appreciated. Thank you. The one on the right is what I have in mind.

Edited June 13, 2014 by glowdotGlock

[Lumber_Jack]

You need to fill out a Form 1 with the ATF. You'll have to submit the $200 tax fee, passport photos, fingerprints and get you local Chief LEO or Sheriff to sign. It will take 10-12 months most likely.

[glowdotGlock]

I have to have a passport?

[garethsk]

You need to get some passport photos, not an actual passport.

[John Wells]

The other option is to set up a trust, which will allow you to skip the Chief Law Enforcement Officer signoff, Fingerprints, and photos.  If that's something you're interested in knowing more about, let me know.  I'd be happy to help you or answer any questions you have.

[glowdotGlock]

I don't mind going the traditional route. Whichever is easiest. I won't have any problem getting our Sheriff's approval and getting the photos. I am just new to this and have been putting off inquiring.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you want I can talk you through the process, just give me a call. Pretty sure you already have my number but if not just send me a PM. It is an easy but can be time consuming to get everything together.

 

Not sure if you are aware of this but if you take a gun that originally came with a pistol grip you can put any barrel length on it as long as it is at least 26" overall length and does not have a shoulder stock. You cannot do it with a shotgun that originally came with a shoulder stock.

 

By the way, this is a LEGAL shotgun that does not require any sort of NFA registration. The reason is because it started life without a shoulder stock and is at least 26" overall length. BTW, that is a 14.5" barrel.

But once you attach a shoulder stock the classification changes and it becomes a shotgun and with a 14.5" barrel you are in violation of the law unless registered.

[glowdotGlock]

[quote name="Dolomite_supafly" post="1158623" timestamp="1402693199"]If you want I can talk you through the process, just give me a call. Pretty sure you already have my number but if not just send me a PM. It is an easy but can be time consuming to get everything together. Not sure if you are aware of this but if you take a gun that originally came with a pistol grip you can put any barrel length on it as long as it is at least 26" overall length and does not have a shoulder stock. You cannot do it with a shotgun that originally came with a shoulder stock. By the way, this is a LEGAL shotgun that does not require any sort of NFA registration. The reason is because it started life without a shoulder stock and is at least 26" overall length. BTW, that is a 14.5" barrel. But once you attach a shoulder stock the classification changes and it becomes a shotgun and with a 14.5" barrel you are in violation of the law unless registered.[/quote] I really like this. I didn't know that. I may go this route for now. I wasn't dead set on having a stock. I just like the short barrel that ends at the tube. That looks really good.

[glowdotGlock]

[quote name="Dolomite_supafly" post="1158623" timestamp="1402693199"]If you want I can talk you through the process, just give me a call. Pretty sure you already have my number but if not just send me a PM. It is an easy but can be time consuming to get everything together. Not sure if you are aware of this but if you take a gun that originally came with a pistol grip you can put any barrel length on it as long as it is at least 26" overall length and does not have a shoulder stock. You cannot do it with a shotgun that originally came with a shoulder stock. By the way, this is a LEGAL shotgun that does not require any sort of NFA registration. The reason is because it started life without a shoulder stock and is at least 26" overall length. BTW, that is a 14.5" barrel. But once you attach a shoulder stock the classification changes and it becomes a shotgun and with a 14.5" barrel you are in violation of the law unless registered.[/quote] Does this particular pistol grip have a name? When you think pistol grips I think of the more virtical ones. I like the long one in this pic and I'm sure it helps on the length ; ) I have a Mossberg 500 "Persuader" that came with a pistol grip. so I could put the kind of grip on it as pictured above and deduct some barrel til' I'm to about 26.5" or so then? I hope I am understanding this right.

[molonlabetn]

That's a bird's head grip... Several companies make them.

BTW, The loop on the pump forend isn't just for looks... You'll need it to hang on with anything but the lightest loads Edited June 14, 2014 by molonlabetn

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can also use the same stock for installing a collapsible AR stock on the shotgun but use a pistol buffer tube or remove the tube completely. A Knox recoil reducing stock with the stock removed would probably work well also. And any muzzle device must be permanently attached to be included in overall length measurements.

 

But you must be absolutely, 100% positive that the shotgun left the factory without a shoulder stock installed. The ONLY way to ensure that is to buy brand new. If you buy used and it was a "shotgun" originally from the factory and you have a barrel less than 18", regardless of overall length, you are in possession of a illegal SBS unless registered.

 

This was all hashed out by Len Savage with several letters written to the ATF. Here are the letters:

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

The second link actually has the picture of an "shotgun" with a barrel of less than 17" that the ATF said was NOT an NFA item. That is unless it was hidden on your person. The ATF have a long standing rule that if a "firearm" is concealed on your person it becomes an AOW. So although it is legal it is also illegal to conceal it on your person without being registered as an AOW.

 

The shoulder stock is what defines a "shotgun". To be classified as a "shotgun" it must have left the factory with a shoulder stock, if not then it does not meet the definition of a "shotgun". And because it doesn't meet the definitions for a shotgun, rifle or a handgun the default definition is "firearm". And the only requirement for a gun that meets the definition of "firearm" is it must be at least 26" long. And you can also add a vertical fore grip when it is a "firearm" as well.

 

And with the SIG brace being so popular it also begs the question that if you add it to a "firearm" (shotgun) that has a pistol buffer tube does it change its status from "firearm" to something else. I will not comment on that subject for legal reasons but I have my ideas. Anyone else want to write that letter? How cool would it be to have a 12 gauge "firearm" with a 14" barrel and a Sig brace. Definitely something that would be fun but without a letter from the ATF I would be afraid LE would go crazy when they seen it.

[Oh Shoot]

And with the SIG brace being so popular it also begs the question that if you add it to a "firearm" (shotgun) that has a pistol buffer tube does it change its status from "firearm" to something else....

 

Seems pretty clear it does not, as the two rulings from ATF FTB specifically say the SIG brace does not change the status of a firearm either by configuration or usage.

 

In the first, "...the brace, when attached to a firearm, does not convert that weapon to be fired from the shoulder, and would not alter the classification of a pistol or other firearm".

 

And echoed in the second as to method of use of the brace, "...using such an accessory improperly does not constitute a design change. Using such an accessory improperly would not change the classification of the weapon as per Federal law".

 

- OS

[molonlabetn]

I wouldn't want to be the first to test the word of the BATFE as conclusive, but I agree with OS that a sig brace would seem to apply to a pistol-grip shotgun as a device which does not change its classification... Provided one does not attempt to conceal the weapon in public, as astutely mentioned by Dolomite.

[Oh Shoot]

I wouldn't want to be the first to test the word of the BATFE as conclusive, but I agree with OS that a sig brace would seem to apply to a pistol-grip shotgun as a device which does not change its classification... Provided one does not attempt to conceal the weapon in public, as astutely mentioned by Dolomite.

 

A parallel example:

 

 

That is a "firearm" with the VFG attached, and is a "firearm" whether the SIG brace is attached or not

 

Without the VFG attached, it is a "handgun", and a "handgun" whether the SIG brace is attached or not.

 

As per the ruling, the brace simply has no effect on classification of any firearm, which of course means it can't figure as part of legal OAL either. But of course AFAIK nothing ever has been ruled to count on the ass end past necessary functional assembly except a grip or stock anyway, so that's nothing new.

 

- OS

Edited June 14, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[glowdotGlock]

I have been doing some research on the 14 incher above. I have found a parts list to convert a 500. I am thinking seriously about ordering the parts next week. If I do I will start a build thread. http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=438

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="glowdotGlock" post="1158824" timestamp="1402730565"]I have been doing some research on the 14 incher above. I have found a parts list to convert a 500. I am thinking seriously about ordering the parts next week. If I do I will start a build thread. [url="http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=438"]http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=438[/url][/quote] Unless the mossy 500 came without a stock you are on dangerous ground

[glowdotGlock]

[quote name="Hershmeister" post="1158911" timestamp="1402761661"]Unless the mossy 500 came without a stock you are on dangerous ground[/quote] It came new with a pistol grip.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="glowdotGlock" post="1158912" timestamp="1402761726"]It came new with a pistol grip.[/quote] But did it come only with the PG?

[glowdotGlock]

[quote name="Hershmeister" post="1159036" timestamp="1402779266"]But did it come only with the PG?[/quote] It did.

[daveW]

Aren't the mossbergs stamped "PGO" ?