Is Iraq heating back up?

[BigK]

Heard some folks talking about several Iraqi cities falling back into the hands of extremists. Looks like things are NOT getting any better over there.

 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/iraqi-drama-catches-u-s-off-guard-1402529874

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/world/meast/iraq-violence/

 

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2014/06/12/obama-iraq-will-need-additional-us-assistance

Edited June 12, 2014 by BigK

[NoBanStan]

Big shock there right? That whole section of the world wouldn't know what to do with peace time. They've been killing each other since killing was invented....I doubt they'll ever stop.

[BigK]

but...Obama told them to stop this time

[bersaguy]

4000 American soldiers died in a war with no hope of it remaining free like it was when we left it. Should have left Saddam alone and was a major mistake by Bush to invade Iraq. I say within another 6 months Iraq will be in the hands of an enemy far more dangerous that Saddam every was. Baghdad will fall in next 30 days or less. As long as they stay over there and leave us alone let them have it. Keep a close recon on what takes place over there and this time make sure the recon is accurate. If they begin to pose a threat to America send them word that any aggression towards the United States will result in a swift and permanent end to Iraq. Let them figure out what that means....................jmho

Edited June 12, 2014 by bersaguy

[bersaguy]

but...Obama told them to stop this time

I needed good laugh today and that was it.................... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rock: :rock:

[BigK]

If those people don't want freedom enough to fight for it, I find it hard to justify our involvement any more. Missiles, drones, boots on ground, and airstrikes aren't cheap. 

[bersaguy]

If those people don't want freedom enough to fight for it, I find it hard to justify our involvement any more. Missiles, drones, boots on ground, and airstrikes aren't cheap. 

Just one big single special delivery package from the tube of one of our Nuclear subs placed directly center mass of Iraq would do the job. If a people won't fight for what our troops gave their lives to give them they don't deserve a second chance...................jmho

[JohnC]

We've handed the entire middle east over to the muslim brotherhood and terrorist groups because most of what we've ended up doing is unseating dictators that kept things semi-in-check and replacing them with the worst of the worst militant sharia law jihadi terrorists.

I haven't kept up with Egypt after the Arab Spring, but I think they did kick the brotherhood to the curve, so there might be hope there, although, last time I checked, they were murdering the hell out of Egyptian Coptic Christians, etc.

[monkeylizard]

I'll bet a nickel that the heavy equipment ISIS siezed in Mosul from the Iraqi Army will be on the fast track west to Syria. Methinks the rebels in Syria just got put on an equal playing field with Assad's troops. No matter how Syria or Iraq turn out after this, it won't be good for the U.S.A.

[BigK]

We've handed the entire middle east over to the muslim brotherhood and terrorist groups because most of what we've ended up doing is unseating dictators that kept things semi-in-check and replacing them with the worst of the worst militant sharia law jihadi terrorists.

 

Isn't that ironic? In the 80's we spent a sizable amount of money and effort to oust fundamentlist extremist Shah's and their ilk to install greedy dictators that we could reason with. Now we are doing the opposite.

[TMF]

[quote name="BigK" post="1158108" timestamp="1402596136"]If those people don't want freedom enough to fight for it, I find it hard to justify our involvement any more. Missiles, drones, boots on ground, and airstrikes aren't cheap. [/quote] There are people there who want freedom enough to fight for it. In fact, they are fighting for it, have been and we are turning our backs on them. They're called the Kurds. They just seized Kirkuk today (overnight). That is a huge deal in regard to establishing their own country; it's also nearly half of Iraq's oil. This is the end of Iraq as we know it. The insurgency that Sunni extremists have been waging may have wound down over time. Gains in Mosul and Tikrit could easily been temporary for a whole bunch of reasons. It wouldn't have lasted. However, the taking of Kirkuk signals a secession from Baghdad and the creation of Kurdistan. Iraq will never recover from that. They will never see that territory again unless Baghdad can drag Turkey into this mess. I hope that doesn't happen. If it does, the US will not support the Kurds and may go so far as to continue to support Turkey and Baghdad with military hardware and cash, which is crap. The Kurds could be our only true ally in the region. Anyone that has ever fought alongside the Peshmerga know the kind of people they are. They aren't like the Arabs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TMF]

[quote name="monkeylizard" post="1158117" timestamp="1402597350"]I'll bet a nickel that the heavy equipment ISIS siezed in Mosul from the Iraqi Army will be on the fast track west to Syria. Methinks the rebels in Syria just got put on an equal playing field with Assad's troops. No matter how Syria or Iraq turn out after this, it won't be good for the U.S.A.[/quote] They used to have a tank battalion (or bde) in Udaim. Insurgents took that yesterday and word is the IA left all their equipment behind. If they still had tanks there then the insurgents have them now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TMF]

4000 American soldiers died in a war with no hope of it remaining free like it was when we left it. Should have left Saddam alone and was a major mistake by Bush to invade Iraq. I say within another 6 months Iraq will be in the hands of an enemy far more dangerous that Saddam every was. Baghdad will fall in next 30 days or less. As long as they stay over there and leave us alone let them have it. Keep a close recon on what takes place over there and this time make sure the recon is accurate. If they begin to pose a threat to America send them word that any aggression towards the United States will result in a swift and permanent end to Iraq. Let them figure out what that means....................jmho

 

I'm not convinced Baghdad will fall.  I think it will turn into a killing ground of sectarian violence, but it is so large and mixed that I don't believe one side or the other can really "hold" it.  If anything, Iraq is running it's natural course, and is returning to a time before the Brits came in and drew a bunch of random lines in the sand.  Right now the Sunni insurgents are taking hold of traditionally held lands.  They will never take control of Shia territory.  It just won't happen.  The Kurds just scratched out what they need to survive, and I expect they will formally announce their secession in the coming weeks or months, depending how the Iraqi Army handles the Sunni insurgency.

 

So what we have is Iraq splitting into three parts.  This is what folks have been talking about for the better part of a century.  It is finally happening.  I don't see a problem with it other than al Qaeda affiliated groups getting their own country (eastern Syria and Western Iraq).  It will be a security risk for us later down the line.  Other than that, I feel as if the Sunnis can have their country, the Shias can have theirs and the Kurds can finally have a legitimate Kurdistan.  Sounds to me like they're sorting it all out just fine.

[JohnC]

This all sounds terrible.... Really, it couldn't get much worse.

[KKing]

[quote name="BigK" post="1158108" timestamp="1402596136"]If those people don't want freedom enough to fight for it, I find it hard to justify our involvement any more. Missiles, drones, boots on ground, and airstrikes aren't cheap. [/quote] Amen, as bad as it sounds...let them kill each other off

[mikegideon]

If those people don't want freedom enough to fight for it, I find it hard to justify our involvement any more. Missiles, drones, boots on ground, and airstrikes aren't cheap. 

 

We got megatons that are fully depreciated. 

[Oh Shoot]

This all sounds terrible.... Really, it couldn't get much worse.

 

Sure it can,  just now Biden revealed to have told al-Maliki that we will "intensify and accelerate security support".

 

So we're about to "help" a government that is losing its army and police by the hour.

 

- OS

[tnguy]

but...Obama told them to stop this time

 

Maybe he should have written it to them. With his pen.

[TMF]

Sure it can,  just now Biden revealed to have told al-Maliki that we will "intensify and accelerate security support".

 

So we're about to "help" a government that is losing its army and police by the hour.

 

- OS

 

I'm sure we're doing our best to funnel winter clothing and wet weather gear to the Iraqi Army.

 

At this point, the only thing that would undo the damage by the insurgency would be to put boots back on the ground or provide overwhelming air support to the Iraqi Army.  I don't predict either will happen.  Up until now, the limited support that the administration has been overt about has been the increase in intelligence personnel.  It ain't that type of war anymore.  This is becoming quite conventional.  A bunch of analysts generating reports that we could get from CNN or al Jazeera obviously isn't helping.

 

They need gigantic American balls to stop what's happening.  The type that schwack bad guys like it's cool and piss on their bodies.  We aren't in that business anymore.

Edited June 12, 2014 by TMF

[bersaguy]

Well, we have about a 1000 troops and trainers in Baghdad right now and they have not made any decision to pull them out. Are we going to see a Benghazi of biblical proportion by being stupid enough to leave them there as Baghdad falls and see if they can blame another video for their stupidity. I think we need to be doing the same exact thing other Contracting Companies are doing and that is sending in company jets to get our people out. "Biden may be letting his alligator mouth over load his Hummingbird ass making promises he can't keep to the Iraq leadership"....................jmho

Edited June 12, 2014 by bersaguy

[bersaguy]

Maybe he should have written it to them. With his pen.

I'm quite sure he knows how to write in Arabic so maybe he should have..................jmho

[btq96r]

There are people there who want freedom enough to fight for it. In fact, they are fighting for it, have been and we are turning our backs on them. They're called the Kurds. They just seized Kirkuk today (overnight). That is a huge deal in regard to establishing their own country; it's also nearly half of Iraq's oil. This is the end of Iraq as we know it. The insurgency that Sunni extremists have been waging may have wound down over time. Gains in Mosul and Tikrit could easily been temporary for a whole bunch of reasons. It wouldn't have lasted. However, the taking of Kirkuk signals a secession from Baghdad and the creation of Kurdistan. Iraq will never recover from that. They will never see that territory again unless Baghdad can drag Turkey into this mess. I hope that doesn't happen. If it does, the US will not support the Kurds and may go so far as to continue to support Turkey and Baghdad with military hardware and cash, which is crap. The Kurds could be our only true ally in the region. Anyone that has ever fought alongside the Peshmerga know the kind of people they are. They aren't like the Arabs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This may be the most realistic assessment of the entire mess.  The Kurds should seize this chance, it might not come again soon.

[Hershmeister]

For those who were not around in 1975, get ready....

[Garufa]

I was thinking of posting that very picture myself Hersh as our experiment in Iraq is destined to end that way.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Garufa

[bersaguy]

 I don't know about any one else but I am getting sick and tired of our Government sticking our noses in issues regarding other peoples problems. People keep talking about freedom. Back in the beginning when the Americans held the Boston Tea Party in the Boston Harbor it was the beginning of our reach for Freedom. Out numbered and far out gunned a determined group of Freedom loving people told the King and Queen of England to kiss their butts and what they could do with their taxes. Way I see it these third world country's seeking freedom can earn theirs the same way we won ours. They can fight for it and if they want it bad enough they will win the fight. Some people call them Civil Wars, other people call the religious wars. We had our Civil war also and I didn't see any other countries rushing over to help fight in ours. We settled it and the nation became one again. I say we quit volunteering to help every that asks for help and say NO!!! If you want it fight for it or live under the oppression you live under now. When we left Iraq they were a free and independent country. 4000 Americans died and thousands more injured and maimed for life giving the that freedom and now they are screaming and begging us to come back and help them again. I say NO NO NO and 1 more NO!!!!! If they want it bad enough they will find a way to get it. If they want someone else to come and do the dirty work for them again and lose more American lives the answer needs to be NO!!! Freedom is not free and if we keep fighting and dying for a country we earned the freedom for once and go back again they will never stand on their own. South Korea is a good example of that. We fought to keep them and we have had to have a standing army presence there ever since. I say not again anywhere except Israel. We stand with Israel which is the only country over there we could depend on to fight for us and I guess that is probably why our President resents them so much..........................jmho