What is a "weapon" for TN school carry?

[macville]

So first off, I am thankful for people like Jon Meis who kept his wits and stopped a murderer before he could kill more than one person. But it got me thinking about our state (and FL since my parents teach there) in regards to carrying self defense tools. Mr Meis used pepper spray to slow/stop the attacker, then he tackled him (that's my understanding from the reports.) So I was wondering if things like pepper spray are considered a weapon in TN. This is what I found in TN on what you cannot carry on school grounds

 

 

  (a) As used in this section, "weapon of like kind" includes razors and razor blades, except those used solely for personal shaving, and any sharp pointed or edged instrument, except unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance.

( B)  (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.

 

So would pepper spray be considered "any other weapon of like kind"? Would a shooting taser or a contact taser be considered a weapon?

[bersaguy]

Well since I am surprised that they did not have slippery wet noodle included in their list of weapons I would guess Pepper Sprays Mace and tazers of any kind would be considered an illegal weapon on school grounds...............jmho

[RED333]

I repair cooking equipment, sometimes in a school.

I asked a Police officer what was the diff between my knife and a knife carried by a student.

He told me that mine was a "tool" till I used it as a weapon.

The student has a weapon all the time as a student did not need a knife at school to do a job.

Shop hand tools are the same, a tool, it depends on what you are gona do with it

as to when it becomes a weapon.

[macville]

Well since I am surprised that they did not have slippery wet noodle included in their list of weapons I would guess Pepper Sprays Mace and tazers of any kind would be considered an illegal weapon on school grounds...............jmho

 

Here would be my argument against that though... a shooting taser is like a firearm, but a contact one, along with pepper spray aren't like anything that's listed in the law. And something like pepper spray can't cause permeant damage, where as all the items they list can. I think this is an issue we need to bring up so at least teachers/college students can have some protection. Obviously, pepper spray has been proven to help (although, he did tackle the shooter with some other guys, so it wasn't just the pepper spray) so maybe start with making that legal. Of course, you could use the same argument about firearms...

[bersaguy]

If you are really looking to make all schools safer take down the Gun Free Zone restrictions and allow trained HCP approved adults, teachers, administration officials, Janitors  to carry and schools will become safer immediately. Chances of that happening. 10 million to 1...................jmho

[A.J. Holst]

I repair cooking equipment, sometimes in a school.
I asked a Police officer what was the diff between my knife and a knife carried by a student.
He told me that mine was a "tool" till I used it as a weapon.
The student has a weapon all the time as a student did not need a knife at school to do a job.
Shop hand tools are the same, a tool, it depends on what you are gona do with it
as to when it becomes a weapon.

Protecting yourself from an armed assailant is a job, right? So my gun is a tool that sits in a toolbox on my belt until I need it. The tool you bought knowing you may need it but hope to never have to use it.

[RED333]

Protecting yourself from an armed assailant is a job, right? So my gun is a tool that sits in a toolbox on my belt until I need it. The tool you bought knowing you may need it but hope to never have to use it.

 I like your train thinking, it wont pass muster.

[tartanphantom]

 

[dawgdoc]

This is the problem that we have in Georgia and will be changing on July 1.  Currently, the list of weapons includes basically everything, including pepper spray because it can be argued that it "shoots a projectile."  At the very least, it is ambiguous enough that no one can clearly say pepper spray is allowed, and no one wants to be a test case over pepper spray.

 

After July 1, "weapon" is supposed to just refer to a gun, knife, or bomb.  Of course, the bill that change the law also removed all the restrictions on Weapons License holders, and the jackwads in charge are trying to say that the law doesn't really say what the law says.

 

Since we expect at least part of the law (pertaining to GWL holders being exempted) will have to wind its way through the courts, a Kimber Pepper Blaster looks like it might be useful for my wife if she volunteers at the school (at least until the State recognizes that we aren't the ones to be worried about).

[300winmag]

I was under the impression that pepper spray was legal at schools in TN.  At least you can have a loaded firearm in your vehicle at a school now if you have a permit.  The gun in your truck and pepper spray carried on you are better than nothing.

[bersaguy]

I was under the impression that pepper spray was legal at schools in TN.  At least you can have a loaded firearm in your vehicle at a school now if you have a permit.  The gun in your truck and pepper spray carried on you are better than nothing.

I guess if you can spray the shooter with the pepper spray and make it to you vehicle and back before he or they regain their vision and shoot you on sight it might work. My self I would just keep spraying them with the spray till you run out of they run away or they are blinded for life and you can take their gun away.................jmho

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

It is whatever those in charge decide is a weapon. Perhaps the person who is causing the destruction should be labled as such? I challange ANYONE to show me where anything from a knife to an atomic bomb has caused any destruction or damage without some kind of interaction (whether deliberate or accidental) by a human being. The old adage remains true...it ain't the weapon, it's the intent of the person who wields it.

[superduty]

I was under the impression that pepper spray was legal at schools in TN. At least you can have a loaded firearm in your vehicle at a school now if you have a permit. The gun in your truck and pepper spray carried on you are better than nothing.

Is this fact, that you may have a firearm in your car on school property? Not doubting you, but if you can provide a link, I'd appreciate it. I have to pick up my kids from school all the time, and if I can leave the Shield in the car rather than go home and put it away first, I'd be happy to learn that.

[Oh Shoot]

Is this fact, that you may have a firearm in your car on school property? Not doubting you, but if you can provide a link, I'd appreciate it. I have to pick up my kids from school all the time, and if I can leave the Shield in the car rather than go home and put it away first, I'd be happy to learn that.

 

IF you have permit, it's a fact, year old law.  Of course for many years previous to that you could already have a loaded gun in the car if you're in the act of dropping off and picking up passengers subject to other state laws about possessing loaded firearm in vehicle period.  And come July 1 that will apply to anyone, as anyone not prohibited from owning firearms may have loaded firearms in vehicle, no permit required.  Although that still won't apply to parking on school property with them, that still requires a permit.

 

Anyway, the law regarding permit holders being able to possess firearms in public and private parking lots, including schools is 39-17-1313, quoted below. It has actually just been amended too, to clarify "private vehicle" better and more widely, and that has already taken effect also, but has not been compiled where I can quote it as one entity yet, but will paste amendmend in below the main statute.

 

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39-17-1313.  Transporting and storing a firearm or firearm ammunition in permit holder's privately owned motor vehicle.

  (a) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1309, § 39-17-1311, or § 39-17-1359, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, the holder of a valid handgun carry permit recognized in Tennessee may transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder's privately owned motor vehicle, as defined in § 55-1-103, while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if:

   (1) The permit holder's vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be; and

   (2) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the vehicle:

      (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in the motor vehicle; or

      ( B )Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box, or interior of the person's privately owned motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to such vehicle if the permit holder is not in the vehicle.

( b ) No business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property shall be held liable in any civil action for damages, injuries or death resulting from or arising out of another's actions involving a firearm or ammunition transported or stored by the holder of a valid handgun carry permit in the permit holder's privately owned motor vehicle unless the business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property commits an offense involving the use of the stored firearm or ammunition or intentionally solicits or procures the conduct resulting in the damage, injury or death. Nor shall a business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property be responsible for the theft of a firearm or ammunition stored by the holder of a valid handgun carry permit in the permit holder's privately owned motor vehicle.

(c) For purposes of this section:

   (1) "Parking area" means any property provided by a business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property for the purpose of permitting its invitees, customers, clients or employees to park privately owned motor vehicles; and

   (2) "Parking area" does not include the grounds or property of an owner-occupied, single-family detached residence, or a tenant-occupied single-family detached residence.

 

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SENATE BILL 1701

By Green

AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39,

Chapter 17, Part 13, relative to motor vehicles in

or on which a firearm or firearm ammunition may

be transported or stored by a handgun carry

permit holder.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE

OF TENNESSEE:

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313(a), is amended by

deleting the language “privately owned motor vehicle

” and by substituting instead the language

“motor vehicle”.

SECTION 2. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313(a)(1), is amended by

deleting the language “permit holder’s vehicle” and b

y substituting instead the language “permit

holder’s motor vehicle”.

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313(a)(2), is amended by

deleting the language “or stored in the vehicle:” and

by substituting instead the language “or

stored in the motor vehicle:”.

SECTION 4. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313(a)(2)( b ), is amended by

deleing the following language:

privately owned motor vehicle or a container securely a

ffixed to such vehicle if the permit

holder is not in the vehicle.

and substituting instead the following language:

motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to such mot

or vehicle if the permit holder is

not in the motor vehicle.

SB1701

010112

-2-

SECTION 5. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313( b ) , is amended by

deleting the language “privately owned motor vehicle

” wherever it appears and by substituting

instead the language “motor vehicle”.

SECTION 6. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-

1313(c), is amended by

adding the following language as a new subdivision:

(_) “Motor vehicle” means any motor vehicle as defined

in § 55-1-103, which is

in the lawful possession of the permit holder, but shall

not include any motor vehicle

which is owned or leased by a governmental or business en

tity and that is provided by

such entity to an employee for use during the course of e

mployment if the entity has

adopted a written policy prohibiting firearms or amm

unition not required for employment

within the entity’s motor vehicles;

SECTION 7. This act shall take effect May 1, 2014, t

he public welfare requiring it.

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- OS

Edited June 10, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[superduty]

Excellent, thanks OS.

[300winmag]

Do not ever say that you have a weapon at a school in this state.  If you have a baseball bat in your vehicle, you have a glove and ball.  If you have a knife, it is a tool for opening things or cutting up fruit.  A 4 d cell Maglite is to use as a flashlight when you have car trouble.

 

It is pretty clear now that you can have a firearm in your vehicle anytime at a school in TN just about anytime IF you have a handgun carry permit.  Pepper spray does not seem to be a weapon in TN.  A few states do consider pepper spray a weapon.  

[Falcon1]

Do be careful if you are an employee of the school system.  Lt. Gov. Ramsey's comments to the contrary, your employment can still be terminated if you have a firearm in your vehicle IF your school board's policy prohibits the possession of firearms.  They just can't have you taken away in handcuffs afterward.  The law provides no protection for your job in this "at-will" employment state.