Legal Insurance for CCW?

[Tau213]

I was listening to the radio when I came across a commercial for CCW legal insurance. From what the I heard it covers legal fees and attorney fees. My first question is does anyone have legal insurance that covers a self-defense shooting? My second question is has anyone hand experience with this company or others and is it worth the money?

Sorry if this the wrong forum, this is my first post. Edited June 2, 2014 by Tau213

[Trekbike]

Check out Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network. It`s my second year of membership for myself and wife. I joined after attending a TGO meeting with Chip Cain of Cain Law Firm (vendor here) back in Dec 2012.

[Tau213]

Thanks for the information. I was worried about buying CCWSafe I couldn't tell if it was legit or a fly by night business.

[Oh Shoot]

The paranoiac view of having that is that if actually needed, it would be asserted by prosecution as proclivity to seek out an armed encounter.

 

- OS

[Falcon1]

The paranoiac view of having that is that if actually needed, it would be asserted by prosecution as proclivity to seek out an armed encounter.

 

- OS

I tend to agree.  I would look for a local attorney who specializes in firearms law.  If you cannot find one, ask here:

 

http://www.harrislawoffice.com/content/areas_of_practice/firearmslaws.htm

[RobertNashville]

There are several providers out there and frankly, I wouldn't carry a firearm on me without it. I obtain my primary coverage through my membership in USCCA but there are other good options out there.  Should you ever have the misfortune of discharging your firearm in self defense you will NEED an attorney (and I hope you have the business card of one or two local ones with you when you carry)...if you happen to be charged by a DA you can count on a minimum expense of $250K to mount an effective defense so unless you are flush with that kind of cash, insurance is a necessity.

I also HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you take Massad Ayoob's MAG20 Class; Rules of Engagement ( http://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/ ). It is a truly exceptional two-day full 16 hour course that is worth many times the cost.

Edited June 3, 2014 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

The paranoiac view of having that is that if actually needed, it would be asserted by prosecution as proclivity to seek out an armed encounter.

 

- OS

There are ways to successfully counter that argument (and the similar arguments a DA would bring against you if you are charged).

 

DA: "Why do you carry "hollow point" bullets designed to do extreme damage to human flesh so that when you shot the young, victim (you know; that upstanding, innocent 16 year old who broke into your back patio door door at 2AM) he died from the massive internal injuries" Do you use such ammunition just because you want to kill people?"

 

YOU:  "Mr DA, Sir, I carry that kind of ammunition for the same reasons the local Police, Sheriff's Deputies and the THP do!"   ;)

Edited June 3, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Hershmeister]

I would think a general umbrella liability policy would be a wiser use of funds and provide a wider range of coverage. They're pretty cheap and if you have assets, your homeowners policy will likely not be enough.

[Tau213]

My work offers legal insurance but from what I can find it does not cover criminal or civil charges with self-defense. I looked up CCWSafe they supposely cover all the charges from criminal and civil suits. But that sound too good to be true for only $99 a year. I also read they haven't been to court yet either.

[Oh Shoot]

My work offers legal insurance but from what I can find it does not cover criminal or civil charges with self-defense. I looked up CCWSafe they supposely cover all the charges from criminal and civil suits. But that sound too good to be true for only $99 a year. I also read they haven't been to court yet either.

 

Well, perhaps because the actual story is that maybe 1% of people who legally carry handguns ever have to use them in self defense away from the home, and maybe only a slightly higher percentage of folks have to use guns in self defense in their home period?. And that 95% or more of those cases actually are deemed justified, and are never prosecuted?

 

And yeah, anyone can sue anyone, but also that 95% or more of those suits go nowhere also?

 

- OS

Edited June 3, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[midtennchip]

I would think a general umbrella liability policy would be a wiser use of funds and provide a wider range of coverage. They're pretty cheap and if you have assets, your homeowners policy will likely not be enough.

You really need to check the umbrella policy's fine print. Most general liability policies specifically exclude intentional acts. Self-defense is, by definition, an intentional act.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="midtennchip" post="1154935" timestamp="1401766083"]You really need to check the umbrella policy's fine print. Most general liability policies specifically exclude intentional acts. Self-defense is, by definition, an intentional act.[/quote] Will do!

[cannoncocker]

The liability section of my home owners policy specifically states the intentional act exclusion "does not apply to bodily injury resulting from the use of lawful reasonable force by any insured to protect persons or property". My umbrella policy, written by the same carrier, provides excess liability coverage over my home owners policy on a form following basis.  This means if the limits of my home owners policy are reached, the umbrella policy kicks in.

 

Read the liability section of your home owners policy.  You may already have coverage.

[chances R]

The liability section of my home owners policy specifically states the intentional act exclusion "does not apply to bodily injury resulting from the use of lawful reasonable force by any insured to protect persons or property". My umbrella policy, written by the same carrier, provides excess liability coverage over my home owners policy on a form following basis.  This means if the limits of my home owners policy are reached, the umbrella policy kicks in.

 

Read the liability section of your home owners policy.  You may already have coverage.

 

^^

This is what my reads as well.

[midtennchip]

Umbrella policies are, as a general matter, a very cheap product (relative to other coverages) and I have one myself. If the policy does cover self-defense, then you are good. However, even the language mentioned above has some "ifs, ands, & buts" in there. Specifically, we have seen coverage denied (including denial of paying for defense) based on very strict readings of the policy.

For example, what does "lawful reasonable force" mean. If you get charged with a crime, the umbrella policy is likely NOT going to pay the defense costs because it hasn't been proven that your intentional act was "lawful" or "reasonable." Also, the umbrella policy is a liability policy, meaning it pays when you are liable to another person for damages. It is rare for an umbrella policy, or any general liability policy, to cover criminal defense costs. Unless the umbrella policy has a specific provision for paying for defense of criminal prosecution, there is a good chance that the umbrella policy is NOT the same type of coverage as the what the OP is talking about. Edited June 4, 2014 by midtennchip

[bersaguy]

I have a renters policy coming due in a couple months and i will make it a note to see how my coverage reads as to the liability section. Thing is if I have a home invasion while I am home one of two things is going to happen. They are going to die or I am and at that point I am not going to really be worrying about if my liability insurance will protect me if I kill one or more intruders. I will find that out when and if it ever happens I guess. ..............jmvho

[MountainDewed]

I've been doing quite a bit of research on covering myself for self defense mishaps(runaway bullets, convict everyone type DA's, etc...) the past 2 days and it is tough finding real information(not the biased stuff written because the reporter was paid)r. I know this is an old post but I always see the do a search first rule but also wasn't sure if I should leave this necro alone, so I just continued this  :surrender:.

 

I myself am just looking for a way to get a lawyer immediately to help me IF it ever comes to looking like ANY charges might be brought against me. If it does ever happen. The only things I'm maybe worried about is that stray bullet or liars(surviving ofc) for example and the unknown. For me so far, this sounds like "The Network" but not totally sold yet. I'm still doing a bunch of reading on every possible avenue.

 

  It took me forever to find but I came across USCCA's policy(Member resource guide) they send to members. I just wanted to post it here for anyone that likes reading this stuff and maybe can explain it in easier form for others that are looking for piece of mind insurance type options?  

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf/USCCA-Member-Resource-Guide_Web.pdf

 

I do need to read this because what I read yesterday from them and what I read today seems to have changed overnight and puzzled me somewhat.

Edited September 11, 2015 by MountainDewed

[Dolomite_supafly]

Justified or not if you EVER have to stand in front of a judge you really should have counsel, even if frivolous and are sure it will go no where.

Best case scenario, without counse, is everything is dropped. Worst case, going to prison for a long time. How much is your freedom worth?

[DaveTN]

I myself am just looking for a way to get a lawyer immediately to help me IF it ever comes to looking like ANY charges might be brought against me.

Don’t let the insurance stop you. I don’t know how many times I have heard “Don’t say anything to the cops until you talk to a lawyer!” That’s only good advice if you can talk a lawyer right then. I would bet most people throwing out that “advise” can’t do that. You could have them hand you a phone and say “Call him”.

If you have to shoot someone strangers standing around you will start making decisions about you that will impact you and your family. They will make those decisions based on the information they have. I can’t see me in a situation where I would need a lawyer in a shooting, but it’s possible. I will have those people on my side and I will be involved in the decision making process of what’s about to happen.

If you feel that strongly about staying out of jail or covering yourself financially; be prepared to make that call when they hand you a phone. Decide who you want and see what they will charge to meet with you. Then you will be better prepared for the situation you are concerned about. While you are talking with them you can ask them about this company you have questions about and this type of insurance in general.