DO YOU THINK THIS IS SAFE?

[Fitty%]

However it's still not safe, especially judging by SOME of the shooting I saw in this video. They aren't taking fire and there is no mission, so why take this kind of risk?

The reason SOME of the shooting was sub par is that it was everyones first tim operating the Saiga-12 weapon system. I took them ALL through the proper safety and function of the weapon BEFORE they shot it as I do with ALL that are new to that system. The man down range was comfortable with the shooters abilities enough to head down range. 

[Fitty%]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

 

All this talk about safety and breaking 180 blah blah...is all very sensible.

 

But,

 

There's a good chance that the same folks saying how stupid and unsafe this might be, are the same people who walk out in front of a moving car in the Walmart parking lot fully expecting (trusting) a complete stranger to stop his moving 3600 lbs. bullet.  

 

Or they will Jay walk when the hand is red trusting that a complete stranger will be paying attention enough to slow down or stop and give them the right away and not get killed!?

 

I understand the need for being safe.  But why do people not trust other people with a gun in their hand but will trust the exact same person to be a fully competent driver operating a much larger and more deadly machine than a gun?

Great point made here!

[Fitty%]

This appears to be the range at LBL. There are no range safeties there, it is just open to the public. People go out there and trash the range with plastic bottles and cardboard boxes (amongst other things) used for targets. They don't pick up after themselves and make the range look like a dump. 

It is the Golden Pond range. Thats is a very good point about people NOT bringing what they brought back out when they leave....as it says in plain english on a large sign for you to do!

[Fitty%]

ERROR 

 

Edited June 2, 2014 by Fitty%TACTICAL

[Fitty%]

 important not to develop tunnel vision. However, if that was the intent, I would think it would have been mentioned in the original post.....

It was not the intent but it is a very good point.

[Fitty%]

Sent from somewhere in the cosmos using magic...and bacon.

I want this phone!.........lol

[Fitty%]

I agree.
I think both parties are irresponsible . The shooter should have stop shooting. And , The target guy could have at least wait till the shooter was done.
Is this something that you would do with kids watching? I hope not.

IMO . The video looks like two kids that were turned loose with guns with out any proper training or gun discipline .

What if both parties knew exactly what the there was doing? There were no kids.....they also have "proper training & gun discipline"

[Fitty%]

Wannabe Yeager video?

Not a wannabe....just me. But I think I will do a FULL video on this exact subject now.

[Fitty%]

I understand training for real world scenarios . But this was no such training .
I don't understand why, we're still comparing it to that sort of training.

If you can't trust the man next to you NOT to hit you when you both are in "lanes" then how will you be able to trust him in a live fire room clearing scenario?

[Fitty%]

This is live fire group training,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCjSzrANnhc

 

However I suspect it was made and published to see what the reaction would be.

First off....the guys in this video look like they're just copying a Magpul video with extreme "mag-fips" and all ...lol

[Fitty%]

The OP obviously knows and trusts the guys in the video. The target guy was shooting the OP's gun.

You forgot "deployed with them many times" as well.....lol

[Fitty%]

Accidents happen, so why cross the line?

You are correct and can't argue with this statement at all.

[BigK]

The reason SOME of the shooting was sub par is that it was everyones first tim operating the Saiga-12 weapon system. I took them ALL through the proper safety and function of the weapon BEFORE they shot it as I do with ALL that are new to that system. The man down range was comfortable with the shooters abilities enough to head down range. 

 

Hey, it's his skin on the line. If he's good with it, that's all that matters, I guess. Your thread just asked "do you think this is safe", so I was giving my honest PERSONAL opinion.

 

for the record...the sub par shooting I was referring to was the guy who performed the mag dump into a cloud of dust above his target without seeming to even know he was missing. 

 

I meant no offense

Edited June 2, 2014 by BigK

[Fitty%]

Hey, it's his skin on the line. If he's good with it, that's all that matters, I guess. Your thread just asked "do you think this is safe", so I was giving my honest PERSONAL opinion.

 

for the record...the sub par shooting I was referring to was the guy who performed the mag dump into a cloud of dust above his target without seeming to even know he was missing. 

 

I meant no offense

No offense taken bud lol......the guy the just kept on missing gave his reason right after. Im sure you can hear it in the video. He just wanted to do a mag dump because it was the first time shooting a Saiga-12 and he loved it.

[BigK]

No offense taken bud lol......the guy the just kept on missing gave his reason right after. Im sure you can hear it in the video. He just wanted to do a mag dump because it was the first time shooting a Saiga-12 and he loved it.

 

I can respect that reasoning...who doesn't wanna mag dump a Saiga-12?

[vontar]

I would rather do a mag dump on an AA12.

[10-Ring]

I wouldn't like it, I wouldn't do it, personally I wouldn't feel comfortable around that sort of thing.  However, I say to each his own.  The reward doesn't seem worth the risk to me, but we all do our own things.  I've done things in other hobbies that many people would just shake their heads at. 

[Fitty%]

I would rather do a mag dump on an AA12.

But the cyclic rate of the AA12 is much lower then that of the Saiga-12....but it is more controllable due to that.

[Jonnin]

the 180 rule is silly to me: bullets do not go out the muzzle and hang a left.  I have before and will again stand less than 180 from a live shooter if there is a good reason to do so (example, to get a cool muzzle flash pic, with an experienced and trusted shooter who knows I am there and what I am doing).  But this scenario was nothing like the 180 rule.  IMHO the target changer is 100% safe so long as the shooter does not have any freak accidents (drop-discharge type stuff, or hot-brass-down-the-shirt-dance, etc) and the shooter keeps on putting the rounds on his target.   FINE.  But freak accidents and stupidity DO happen, and that makes the scenario totally unsafe and unacceptable to me.   Worse, its unclear but the shooter seems unaware of the other guy. 

 

Shooting is like driving.  There are things you can do that are safe.  There are things you can do that are unsafe.  There are things that are safe with pros but not noobs ("don't try this at home").  There are things that are usually safe but have risks.  And just like driving, you can't trust the other people around you outside of very specific circumstances, usually in a private setting, and not always even then...

 

so my final answer is: dangerous and unacceptable situation.

[Tedro2022]

He still has his ears on, what's unsafe about it? :hiding: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A.J. Holst]

I think it would be "safer" not to head down range when the line was hot, even if I had trained with my shooting buddies.

 

I understand they have trained / deployed together and probably have the skill set to operate safely in this kind of environment.

 

Heading down range in this particular scenario didn't appear to be a training exercise, just one guy impatient to allow the shooter to finish and wanted to get the target ready for when it was his turn.

 

What if the Saiga had jammed, shooter muzzle-swept the area when trying to clear and had a ND? Not probably but falls within the realm of possible.

[Fitty%]

What if the Saiga had jammed, shooter muzzle-swept the area when trying to clear and had a ND? Not probably but falls within the realm of possible.

 

If it jammed I would like to think, actually Im positive, that the shooter would point the muzzle down to clear the weapon. But accidents do happen and thats why I've asked this question to get everyones take on it.