I saw some dude open carrying today.

[K191145]

Well, normally that would not be any big deal much less worth posting about but this guy had a compact Glock on his side and walked right into the post office, technically you're not supposed to have it anywhere on federal property but he made no effort to conceal it or leave it in his truck. I'm pretty sure he wasn't a federal marshall, definatly blue coller. He didn't go to the office for anything but he's taking a chance that one of the workers might report him. I believe the guy who was working the counter today would have just told him not to bring his handgun in the P.O., maybe, he seems like a nice enough guy. Anyway, I've stopped many times at the post office when a local LEO was there getting his mail so this dude is taking a stupid chance IMO, open carry in a federal building. Maybe he's ignorant of the law, if he's not carefull he may get an education in the law.

 

BTW, i'm not opposed to open carry so i'm not making a general open carry argument.

Edited May 31, 2014 by K191145

[Erik88]

It is in fact illegal to carry into the post office. This guy apparently didn't realize that or didn't care. 

[K191145]

It is in fact illegal to carry into the post office. This guy apparently didn't realize that or didn't care.

Probably doesn't realize it, I know in my HCP class many years ago they covered the laws but even then I knew it's illegal to have a handgun on federal property. The only exemption is federal parks in states with shall issue laws.

[Oh Shoot]

Probably doesn't realize it, I know in my HCP class many years ago they covered the laws but even then I knew it's illegal to have a handgun on federal property.

 

Buildings are the only federal property that is universally off limits.

 

But guess what? They have to be posted according to federal statute for conviction. Unlike our own state posting law, federal USC specifically says no conviction if not properly posted. And none of the POs I frequent are.

 

So that only leaves a CFR law specific to post office property, which is $50 fine and/or month in jail, unlike the felony of carrying in posted federal building.

 

- OS

[teecro]

Buildings are the only federal property that is universally off limits.

 

But guess what? They have to be posted according to federal statute for conviction. Unlike our own state posting law, federal USC specifically says no conviction if not properly posted. And none of the POs I frequent are.

 

So that only leaves a CFR law specific to post office property, which is $50 fine and/or month in jail, unlike the felony of carrying in posted federal building.

 

- OS

 

 

Funny that you say that about them not being clearly posted in that the small PO I used in MI had the photocopied sign stuck to the bulletin board where everyone put their little for sale/wanted flyer's and the no guns sign was covered up with a pair of lost mittens for at least the last couple of years...

[Oh Shoot]

Funny that you say that about them not being clearly posted in that the small PO I used in MI had the photocopied sign stuck to the bulletin board where everyone put their little for sale/wanted flyer's and the no guns sign was covered up with a pair of lost mittens for at least the last couple of years...

 

From USC 18 Sec. 930, Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities:

 

"(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and ( b ) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be."

 

(a and e are firearm carry)

 

Note that no such provision for posting in 39 CFR 232.1 - Conduct on Postal Property., though. But the stakes are much lower, worst case scenario.

 

- OS

Edited May 31, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[300winmag]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

 

If it is a federal building, not a federal courthouse, it looks like it could be a misdemeanor.  Federal courthouse is a felony charge.

 

There is an exception that is given to federal buildings but not fed courthouses.  I also was under the assumption that USPS buildings were not federal facilities.  TVA, Federal Reserve, etc are technically federally chartered organizations, and I thought USPS fell in that category.

 

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

 

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Edited May 31, 2014 by 300winmag

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, think I misspoke about carry in fed buildings being felony, apologies.
 

I also was under the assumption that USPS buildings were not federal facilities.  ..

 
Have never ever found definitive clarification of that, one way or the other.

 

39 CFR 232.1 is pretty clear, though, but a veritable slap on the wrist by comparison.
 
- OS

Edited May 31, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[101]

Beyond contrary belief, most postal employees are gun loving.  

 

I would not want to test the water but chances are they would just ask you to not bring that in again.  Metro probably wouldn't do much either, not their jurisdiction.  The postal inspectors would have a field day with you though.  They get REALLY bored and any chance to throw cuffs they will.

 

My shop in Nashville has 26 employees.  13 of us are veterans.  17 of us have carry permits.

 

A local contractor open carried in our shop while doing business with us and we simply told him to leave his .45 in the truck next time (not by our choice).  Hell, up until about seven years ago the truck drivers that had the Federal Reserve building runs (money) were issued a sidearm.  Once they left the building loaded with cash they were on their own.

 

[gl19gobang]

I went to the post office a while back and looked for a posting ( I knew not to carry in there anyway and didnt) and there was nothing anywhere, but once I got inside, they had it on the wall.

[oldman]

Oops, been to two different post offices in the last few weeks, didn't see a posting and concealed carried and went about my business.

[NRA]

Unfortunately an IQ test is not required to obtain a carry permit.

[teecro]

I find it hard to understand how people just can't keep their mouths closed about breaking the law; even if it is a silly one... Concealed to me means that no one knows before, during or after the fact...

[K191145]

I heard/read not long ago some federal judge ruled that permit holders could leave their gun in their vehicle in the parking lot of a post office without violation. I believe this ruling was from a case where some man with a carry permit was charged for having his gun in his vehicle in a post office parking lot. How they knew he had it I don't know. Anyway,this guy I saw who had his Glock in a cheapo nylon holster bouncing away on his belt was not attempting to conceal anything, that's how I knew it was a Glock. He's either very bold or ignorant of the law, there is a sign on the wall inside the building and basic laws should be covered in a HCP class, IMO just to protect the permit holder from getting into trouble. Weather it's a federal building or federally controlled building i've always been aware that it was illegal to bring a firearm inside the post office building.

[teecro]

I heard/read not long ago some federal judge ruled that permit holders could leave their gun in their vehicle in the parking lot of a post office without violation. I believe this ruling was from a case where some man with a carry permit was charged for having his gun in his vehicle in a post office parking lot. How they knew he had it I don't know. Anyway,this guy I saw who had his Glock in a cheapo nylon holster bouncing away on his belt was not attempting to conceal anything, that's how I knew it was a Glock. He's either very bold or ignorant of the law, there is a sign on the wall inside the building and basic laws should be covered in a HCP class, IMO just to protect the permit holder from getting into trouble. Weather it's a federal building or federally controlled building i've always been aware that it was illegal to bring a firearm inside the post office building.

 

Be very careful of that as that decision was only for CO (?) and may not considered to be a nation wide ruling....

[krunchnik]

Very ignorant-if your going into a building like that atleast wear a nice holster :ugh:

[K191145]

Be very careful of that as that decision was only for CO (?) and may not considered to be a nation wide ruling....

I did a search and found an article on the ruling.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/us/guns-post-office/index.html

(CNN) -- Citizens can legally carry firearms in post office parking lots, a federal judge has ruled.

It was a federal judge, it would be an assumption but that should be a ruling for all states. Edited May 31, 2014 by K191145

[Smith]

I'll have to find it but the only part posted in most post offices is the separated counter area and it is usually posted at that point and not on the main doors. You can carry in the po box area and parking lot as the only part of the property considered federal property is the counter area. Reason being almost all post offices are privately owned property that is leased to the feds. The parking lot issues mentioned above is where that was clarified. That being said I'll have to find it.

[Smith]

Well, evidently after the Heller decision the USPS declared themselves a "sensitive area" as mentioned that ruling and changed their "laws". So my statement above is overturned at the moment.

[bersaguy]

I make soft plastic fishing baits for folks and I ship them through post office in priority mail. There has been a few times I forgot to disarm and put my gun in console before going inside with the packages but because I never open carry the people behind the counter that waited on me never knew it. They all knew me on a first name basis when I walked in the doors and two of them knew me from the range and know that I do carry. There is not a sign of any kind up in my post office. Not outside , not inside the glass in the entrance or on any walls inside. I have never understood the idea of posting signs inside. By the time you see them you have already broken the law. I think if they don't want you to break the law they would put them on entrance doors. Remember folks we are dealing with the Federal Government here and who knows what new laws hit the books last night while Obama was having a midnight snack and whipped out that evil pen to make our lives even worse..............jmho

Edited May 31, 2014 by bersaguy

[Guest Lowbuster]

Always cc

[tnguy]

Maybe he just figures the constitution is the law of the land.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="tnguy" post="1154079" timestamp="1401583337"]Maybe he just figures the constitution is the law of the land.[/quote] Hahaha! He must be new around here. :lol: Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[wk05]

I did a search and found an article on the ruling.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/us/guns-post-office/index.html


It was a federal judge, it would be an assumption but that should be a ruling for all states.

 

Not the case.  It only applies to the states in the district where the ruling was handed down.  Colorado is the 10th circuit - if it was ruled on in a 10th Circuit Federal Court, it would be applicable to KS, OK, NM,UT, and WY.  Any other state would simply treat it as a case of first impression - the ruling would definitely come up, but it would be treated as case law in another other states, but rather as a case of first impression.

[bersaguy]

I wonder if anyone was to ever give thought to all the laws that have been written and enacted upon us as Americans since 1776 up until Last night at midnight just how many laws there is? I have often also wondered how many people are able to obey every law on the books everyday without fail. I often wonder what is the one most ultimate stupid law ever written and by whom that is still on the books? I have become a fan of watching  the history channel that has actual police shows taking place live and I listen to what the bad guys are arrested for and what the laws are that they have broken to be arrested for. So far I have learned that there are about 167 different type of laws a person can be charged with for murder. And the really funny part is the little charges they toss in for good measures. The guy has murdered 3 people and  when you hear the lineup of charges they might begin with 3 counts of Simple Assault. Then they will add 3 counts of  aggravated assault to be followed up by 3 counts of extra aggravated assault. 3 counts of illegal possession of a fire arm by a felon. Evading arrest, resisting arrest and then they finally get around to 3 counts Especially Aggravated 1st Degree Murder. When did murder of when has murder not been aggravated. I mean when your killing someone I would guess your aggravated of you might not be killing them. You can't even get a simple speeding ticket any more. Now they have a check list of charges the officer has a choice to go through from A-Z.  It's not just 65 in a 55 Mph zone anymore. It is 65 in 55 zone, excessive speed, reckless driving and if you don't pull over in the first 25 feet of the pursuit you might be charged with attempted to evade arrest police. I have heard laws and charges used that I promise you no one could find in any law book any where if a person began looking at age 10 and died at 90 would never find those laws on paper in a law book. I have often wondered how may laws I break from the time I wake up till I make my first trip to the coffee pot in my kitchen and pour my first cup and take first sip?..................jmho