9mm vs 357 read first

[Jonnin]

Not quite true. .357mag powder isnt going to work too well in 9mm. Magnum primers and standard small pistol primers arent the same either. And they use different bullet diameters.

 

Yea but not talking about making top shelf here, just survival mode.   You can even buy a 9mm / 357 revolver, just swap the cylinders.   Its not optimal, but you can make functional ammo for either type from the other one, in the given scenario of SHTF and using what you found of one type or the other.   Ideally, you would have had a supply of ammo and not have to resort to this sort of thing, but ideally the S wouldnt HTF.

[Smith]

I LOVE my Rossi m92. I like that you can load down the .38 for small game or really load up the .357 and in a 18" rifle you've pretty much got a 30-30. Which is plenty good for anything in North America at proper range. I also really like the 9mm for availability being that it's a military load and more widely available than anything else ATM. I have a .38 revolver but would really like to get one of the Blackhawk convertibles and have it all.

[Patton]

Not quite true. .357mag powder isnt going to work too well in 9mm. Magnum primers and standard small pistol primers arent the same either. And they use different bullet diameters.

Probably closer to be true though, there are a lot of powders that work for all three. With small primers they are all about the same. The bullet diameters are close and a few of the shapes and weights are more universal than others.

[nightrunner]

Yeah alot will work in both but h110 and 2400 are the most common for .357mag and h110 isnt going to work well in 9mm. Wadcutter or lfn bullets likely wont feed too well.

You wont be breaking down ammo in a SHTF event anyways, maybe TEOTWAWKI buy not short term SHTF.

[Patton]

You would probably be more likely to need .38/357 but find 9mm ammo. I can't think of a single .355 bullet that wouldn't work in a .38. As far as the powder you are not going to know what kind it was anyway if it is store bought, just reduce it a small amount. Even if you didn't it most likely wouldn't be catastrophic.

[gregintenn]

I know the 357 is much more powerful but I am talking about shtf type problem. Bug out (or in). The 9 is a military round and from a five inch barrel could kill small deer. The 357 is more powerful and has a better range. Also can shoot 38. Would ammo availability be enough to overcome the other? Also with springs and mags to deal with the 357 is easier to maintain for any length of time and shooting. Which would you choose?

I would say to just go with your personal preference, assume your budget doesn't allow for both.

 

Who knows what the future holds? Life is a crapshoot.

[musicman]

AR.

Seriously. I've been thinking about it, as I have everything listed... Marlin 1894, S & W 19 4", and M&Ps in 9 and 40 in all sizes. If I have to grab one gun and go, it's an AR. I have more mags and ammo for them than anything else. Distance, capacity, adequate power for most needs, and firing rate. I'll probably be dead before I ran out of ammo in a Red Dawn scenario... just sayin '.

[Smith]

[quote name="musicman" post="1153742" timestamp="1401499806"]AR. Seriously. I've been thinking about it, as I have everything listed... Marlin 1894, S & W 19 4", and M&Ps in 9 and 40 in all sizes. If I have to grab one gun and go, it's an AR. I have more mags and ammo for them than anything else. Distance, capacity, adequate power for most needs, and firing rate. I'll probably be dead before I ran out of ammo in a Red Dawn scenario... just sayin '.[/quote] Yep, cause someone with an AK will have put you down already and then taken your stuff :-)

[musicman]

Hahahaha!!! There's that arrogant commie! Haha!

Just realized this is the HANDGUN forum! In that case, my M&P fullsize 40 with my extra 9mm barrel. I've got over a dozen mags for it... I need more pockets!

[Patton]

In that case, my M&P fullsize 40 with my extra 9mm barrel.

It is hard to beat that versatility!

I have been eyeing the S&W Governor for awhile, to shoot .410, 45Lc, 45ACP, and GAP.

[kwe45919]

Here's the hard truth that should stop this nonsense of "what would be the best caliber" in a SHTF situation.....

 

Caliber or type of firearm during a SHTF situation won't matter because it'll end up being what ever we can get our hands on when what we have runs out or stops working. I won't care if it's a .22lr or a .50AE....I'll take it and use it to the best of my ability to continue to live and protect my loved ones. Stop worrying about what will be the best because the best won't last for long when the world comes to an end. Instead, learn what you need to be able to do to survive without a firearm because you may end up not having one. Sticks, stones, bows and arrows may be the only tools we have to work with so broaden your horizons and learn all you can about survival with minimal supplies and weapons.

Edited May 31, 2014 by kwe45919

[TrickyNicky]

AR.
Seriously. I've been thinking about it, as I have everything listed... Marlin 1894, S & W 19 4", and M&Ps in 9 and 40 in all sizes. If I have to grab one gun and go, it's an AR. I have more mags and ammo for them than anything else. Distance, capacity, adequate power for most needs, and firing rate. I'll probably be dead before I ran out of ammo in a Red Dawn scenario... just sayin '.

For Red Dawn I'll take the AR and my M&P as well. I doubt I last long enough to even get through my loaded magazines let alone reload any. :rolleyes:

For a long term kind of EOTWAWKI, one not involving numerous daily firefights, and less if any chance of repairing or replacing anything major, that's when I'd want my Blackhawk. Three capable rounds in a great utilitarian package.

[three5seven]

My one goto gun, three calibers in one,  is a Glock 23 Gen3 in 40SW with a 357 Sig barrel and a 9mm conversion barrel with 9MM mags.

Excellent choice. Add a .22LR conversion kit and you can hunt squirrels during the end of days! 

[Patton]

Here is something else to consider; Supposedly you can take a 357 magnum revolver and have it rechambered in 9mm and still fire .38spl or 357 magnum. They do say that it will fireform the cases. Really only a critical factor if you wanted to reload those cases.

[gregintenn]

Here is something else to consider; Supposedly you can take a 357 magnum revolver and have it rechambered in 9mm and still fire .38spl or 357 magnum. They do say that it will fireform the cases. Really only a critical factor if you wanted to reload those cases.

If you do this, please do it only to a Taurus, Rossi, or the like. I occasionally buy a Colt or Smith and Wesson, and would really hate to discover this modification/trashing performed on an otherwise quality revolver.

[Patton]

If you do this, please do it only to a Taurus, Rossi, or the like. I occasionally buy a Colt or Smith and Wesson, and would really hate to discover this modification/trashing performed on an otherwise quality revolver.

While I am a S&W finatic I would probably do it to a Ruger of some flavor.
http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

[Moped]

I have a Blackhawk convertible.  If a TEOTWAWKI situation arose, it would be one of my go to guns.  It's literally built like a tank, simple and few moving parts, and shoots several different calibers.  Yes it's slow to reload, but it's not going to be my primary. That would be a long gun and I can assure you, it wouldn't be slow to reload. 

 

This not the gun to EDC, though, because it is built like a tank!  I'd also love to have a .357 carbine, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.  I have other wants on the list, before that one.

[JAB]

Here's the hard truth that should stop this nonsense of "what would be the best caliber" in a SHTF situation.....

 

Caliber or type of firearm during a SHTF situation won't matter because it'll end up being what ever we can get our hands on when what we have runs out or stops working. I won't care if it's a .22lr or a .50AE....I'll take it and use it to the best of my ability to continue to live and protect my loved ones. Stop worrying about what will be the best because the best won't last for long when the world comes to an end. Instead, learn what you need to be able to do to survive without a firearm because you may end up not having one. Sticks, stones, bows and arrows may be the only tools we have to work with so broaden your horizons and learn all you can about survival with minimal supplies and weapons.

 

I would propose that the very reason to think about/discuss such things now is so that one could be prepared for the eventualities you site, just in case, so that those eventualities would not create a problem.  In this instance, there would be at least two factors to consider in 'being prepared'.  First, you mentioned what we have running out.  Well, if one makes an effort to keep plenty of ammo in his or her chosen flavor 'on hand' before SHTF and supplies become an issue then running out becomes less likely.  Secondly, it is likely a good idea to have more than one firearm chambered in the 'chosen' caliber - or at least similar chamberings.  In other words, if one decides that .38/.357 is the way to go then one might have two or three handguns chambered in .38 Special/.38 +P - maybe even in different 'styles' as in having a J-frame sized revolver along with a medium framed .38 - and one or two larger, heavier revolvers in .357 Magnum then stock up mostly on the less expensive .38 ammo (which any of the handguns can fire) supplemented with enough of a stash in .357 to handle 'heavier' work.  Even better if one can further supplement with the components to reload both .38 and .357.  The same preparations would work if one decided that 9mm were the way to go.  In either case,  the former preparation (stocking up) lessens the chance of running out of ammo while the latter means that if one gun craps out you simply pick up one of the others and carry on.  If the designs of the various firearms in question are similar enough then eventually, the 'dead soldiers' could be scavenged for parts to keep one or two of them running.

 

Of course neither guns nor ammo are free so for most of us this would mean slowly building an ammo stash and a 'stable' of like-chambered firearms over the course of a couple of years and then maintaining those supplies.  It also, at least in my case, means that the bulk of the ammo stash will likely be less expensive (but serviceable) FMJ loads, wadcutters and the like supplemented by a few boxes of 'premium' hunting and SD rounds.  While not necessarily ideal, sort of in the spirit of what you mentioned about sticks and bones, etc. in a long term SHTF event those FMJ loads, wadcutters and the like would become hunting and SD rounds.

 

Personally, I'd choose the .357/.38 route.  To me, the ammo versatility factor as well as the power of full-on .357 would trump any capacity concerns.  That is likely because I don't foresee myself being in a Mad Max situation in SHTF where I am fighting off Mongol hordes or something.  Instead, I foresee the likelihood of subsistence hunting coupled with the possible need to defend against other individuals or small groups.  If, instead, I find myself up against a large group of roving marauders then I don't see that a high capacity firearm would make much difference.  If I have to go up against a group of 20 armed and determined attackers (for instance) then I'll be dead before I can get off more than a handful of shots, anyway.

 

As I have said, before, I believe that the only guns/ammo you can absolutely count on having in a SHTF situation are the ones you have in your possession before the SHTF situation occurs.  You can't count on being able to find/scavenge ammo or anything else.  That is why the idea of what ammo would be more available to scavenge in such a situation is not even a consideration, for me.  What ammo I am likely to be able to find to stock up on now, sure, but not what ammo I might be able to scavenge because I believe that the idea that one will be running around scavenging ammo is a fallacy, anyhow.  As someone above alluded, I also don't see a SHTF situation going on long enough at a true 'crisis' level that an individual is going to wear out a firearm and burn through hundreds of rounds of ammo before things are at least somewhat under control.  As mentioned, that is more an Apocalypse/TEOTWAWKI scenario than a SHTF scenario.

Edited June 2, 2014 by JAB

[gregintenn]

While I am a S&W finatic I would probably do it to a Ruger of some flavor.
http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

:D That'll be fine.

 

Seriously, if I wanted to do that, I would buy an extra cylinder to do it to, and still have my original intact.

 

Ruger already makes a Blackhawk with 2 cylinders. I'm not sure if the Vaquero is available that was as well.

Edited June 3, 2014 by gregintenn

[Patton]

A SA Blackhawk was not my idea of a SHTT revolver, only because it is too slow to reload. I was thinking a Gp100, Sp101, or a LCRK.

[JAB]

A SA Blackhawk was not my idea of a SHTT revolver, only because it is too slow to reload. I was thinking a Gp100, Sp101, or a LCRK.

 

I think it depends on what you foresee your particular situation being.  If you live in an urban area and for you SHTF would look at least somewhat like L.A. after the Rodney King verdict then, yeah, a single action revolver probably isn't the best choice.  If you live in a rural area where the gun's use will be weighted more toward hunting then a SA revolver might be just fine.  Of course, in the spirit of having more than one firearm chambered for your 'chosen' caliber you could have a big, sturdy Blackhawk with a longer barrel for hunting and a SP101 for SD (which would allow you the option of concealing more easily if the need arises.)  Heck, nothing wrong with carrying the Blackhawk with the SP101 or LCR as a BUG/New York reload.

 

There was a show on one of the cable 'sportsman' type channels a few years back that discussed a class one of the major training facilities did that focused on SD with a single action revolver.  The idea was that - while not for everyone - the guys who already practice a lot with SA revolvers for things like cowboy action shooting, hunting and the like are probably more familiar with their SA revolvers than any other handgun.  The class, then, focused on taking that familiarity and adding concepts that would help if using such a revolver for SD.  One of the things they showed had to do with the problem of slow reloads that you mentioned.  It was demonstrated that, by using a speed strip rather than reloading loose ammo, the reloading process could be sped up a bit.  Still not as fast as a break top revolver or a revolver with a swing out cylinder and certainly not as fast as a mag change in a semiauto but their method did seem to speed things up a good bit.  IIRC, they first cleared all the empties.  Then, using a speed strip, they were actually able to reload two chambers at a time.  Reload two, advance to the next two empties, reload them, advance to the last two and reload them (if not leaving the hammer down on an empty chamber - which is not necessary with modern Blackhawks.)

Edited June 3, 2014 by JAB

[kwe45919]

I would propose that the very reason to think about/discuss such things now is so that one could be prepared for the eventualities you site, just in case, so that those eventualities would not create a problem.  In this instance, there would be at least two factors to consider in 'being prepared'.  First, you mentioned what we have running out.  Well, if one makes an effort to keep plenty of ammo in his or her chosen flavor 'on hand' before SHTF and supplies become an issue then running out becomes less likely.  Secondly, it is likely a good idea to have more than one firearm chambered in the 'chosen' caliber - or at least similar chamberings.  In other words, if one decides that .38/.357 is the way to go then one might have two or three handguns chambered in .38 Special/.38 +P - maybe even in different 'styles' as in having a J-frame sized revolver along with a medium framed .38 - and one or two larger, heavier revolvers in .357 Magnum then stock up mostly on the less expensive .38 ammo (which any of the handguns can fire) supplemented with enough of a stash in .357 to handle 'heavier' work.  Even better if one can further supplement with the components to reload both .38 and .357.  The same preparations would work if one decided that 9mm were the way to go.  In either case,  the former preparation (stocking up) lessens the chance of running out of ammo while the latter means that if one gun craps out you simply pick up one of the others and carry on.  If the designs of the various firearms in question are similar enough then eventually, the 'dead soldiers' could be scavenged for parts to keep one or two of them running.

 

Of course neither guns nor ammo are free so for most of us this would mean slowly building an ammo stash and a 'stable' of like-chambered firearms over the course of a couple of years and then maintaining those supplies.  It also, at least in my case, means that the bulk of the ammo stash will likely be less expensive (but serviceable) FMJ loads, wadcutters and the like supplemented by a few boxes of 'premium' hunting and SD rounds.  While not necessarily ideal, sort of in the spirit of what you mentioned about sticks and bones, etc. in a long term SHTF event those FMJ loads, wadcutters and the like would become hunting and SD rounds.

 

Personally, I'd choose the .357/.38 route.  To me, the ammo versatility factor as well as the power of full-on .357 would trump any capacity concerns.  That is likely because I don't foresee myself being in a Mad Max situation in SHTF where I am fighting off Mongol hordes or something.  Instead, I foresee the likelihood of subsistence hunting coupled with the possible need to defend against other individuals or small groups.  If, instead, I find myself up against a large group of roving marauders then I don't see that a high capacity firearm would make much difference.  If I have to go up against a group of 20 armed and determined attackers (for instance) then I'll be dead before I can get off more than a handful of shots, anyway.

 

As I have said, before, I believe that the only guns/ammo you can absolutely count on having in a SHTF situation are the ones you have in your possession before the SHTF situation occurs.  You can't count on being able to find/scavenge ammo or anything else.  That is why the idea of what ammo would be more available to scavenge in such a situation is not even a consideration, for me.  What ammo I am likely to be able to find to stock up on now, sure, but not what ammo I might be able to scavenge because I believe that the idea that one will be running around scavenging ammo is a fallacy, anyhow.  As someone above alluded, I also don't see a SHTF situation going on long enough at a true 'crisis' level that an individual is going to wear out a firearm and burn through hundreds of rounds of ammo before things are at least somewhat under control.  As mentioned, that is more an Apocalypse/TEOTWAWKI scenario than a SHTF scenario.

 

 

You hurt my head...too much to read. Bottom line, pending ones situation you can only carry so much and poop happens too often. No matter what you can squirrel away, Mother Nature (or man's stupidity) can take it away. So.....until you can acquire the next firearm be prepared to stone or stab a person if needed. Have fishing line and a hook for food until you can shoot large game again. Just saying "survival" wise, caliber doesn't really matter, as long as you have something...which is better than nothing, since nothing is perfect in life or goes our way when we need it to.......and last but not least, I'm sure I was watching Walking Dead reruns and having a few choice, breath taking beverages last time I posted so don't take what I say to heart and post another novel..... :up:

[K191145]

Here is something else to consider; Supposedly you can take a 357 magnum revolver and have it rechambered in 9mm and still fire .38spl or 357 magnum. They do say that it will fireform the cases. Really only a critical factor if you wanted to reload those cases.

There was a revolver some time ago that chambered anything from .380, .38, 9mm and .357 magnum from one cylinder, it was called the Madusa. Apparently it wasn't that popular or reliable because I haven't heard anything about it for years. I did think it looked pretty cool though.


Looks hard to load though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s49-iKC7_pA Edited June 10, 2014 by K191145

[JAB]

You hurt my head...too much to read. Bottom line, pending ones situation you can only carry so much and poop happens too often. No matter what you can squirrel away, Mother Nature (or man's stupidity) can take it away. So.....until you can acquire the next firearm be prepared to stone or stab a person if needed. Have fishing line and a hook for food until you can shoot large game again. Just saying "survival" wise, caliber doesn't really matter, as long as you have something...which is better than nothing, since nothing is perfect in life or goes our way when we need it to.......and last but not least, I'm sure I was watching Walking Dead reruns and having a few choice, breath taking beverages last time I posted so don't take what I say to heart and post another novel..... :up:

 

Okay, in the interest of not writing a 'novel, I will just say that if you foresee a SHTF situation where you are running around, living off the land and what you can scavenge and only able to carry what is in your backpack - and you really think you would survive long enough doing so that you would have time to wear out a modern firearm - then that is your perspective so whatever.  Me, I'm staying near my home, sleeping in my bed and keeping all my 'stuff' close at hand.  If I have to leave then I'll pile my 'stuff' in the camping trailer and take it with me.  I have no illusions that I would survive very long trying to do the John Rambo thing and I think that most people who indulge in such fantasies are fooling themselves.

Edited June 10, 2014 by JAB

[K191145]

Okay, in the interest of not writing a 'novel, I will just say that if you foresee a SHTF situation where you are running around, living off the land and what you can scavenge and only able to carry what is in your backpack - and you really think you would survive long enough doing so that you would have time to wear out a modern firearm - then that is your perspective so whatever.  Me, I'm staying near my home, sleeping in my bed and keeping all my 'stuff' close at hand.  If I have to leave then I'll pile my 'stuff' in the camping trailer and take it with me.  I have no illusions that I would survive very long trying to do the John Rambo thing and I think that most people who indulge in such fantasies are fooling themselves.

 

I'm staying put as long as possible also, I have more resorces in my home and on my property than I do out in the sticks. Where I live I don't see many scenerios where I would have to evacuate my home.