Did I make the correct call?

[KahrMan]

So A guy was selling a couple of rifles on Facebook.  I made a deal to buy two of them, a TC Ventrure in .270 and a Remington BDL Enhanced in .30-06.  This guys profile was not really filled out.  That made me a little suspicious.  I searched for the pics he used and could not find them anywhere except in his ad.  That made me feel a little better.  We agreed  to meet today at noon in a very public place.

 

As I am pulling up, with video recording on my phone, I notice the vehicle has Michigan plates.  Crap, this is not starting off well.  First thing I ask him is if he lives in TN.  He said he just moved here a month ago.  I asked him if he had a TNDL. No.  Do you have any mail or anything to proves you live in Tennessee. No.  I told him face to face transactions are legal but only if both people are residents of TN.  He said I promise I am living here now.  I said without proof since you have Michigan Dl I could not buy his rifles.

 

He genuinely looked surprised when I told him I couldn't buy them.  I hope this was just a case of a young guy not knowing the law and was not a scam.  I am bummed because I really wanted those rifles.

 

Since he could not prove he lived in TN, did I make the correct call in passing up this deal?

[R_Bert]

absolutely. If you cannot establish trust or comfort in the deal...back off. 

Edited May 26, 2014 by R_Bert

[dralarms]

Yes.

[Lumber_Jack]

Hell yes you did the right thing. Only way to prove residency is to have a TN DL.

[Trekbike]

Yes. Otherwise you might still be talking to the fine fellows waiting in the undercover ATF van. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[KahrMan]

Yes. Otherwise you might still be talking to the fine fellows waiting in the undercover ATF van. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

That's even what I told him.  I said police do run stings just like this and it was not worth the risk.

[ArmyBrat61]

Good call to walk away!!! :up:

[KKing]

Way to think on your feet, and very good call

[Hozzie]

Good call.  The other option if you really wanted them was to have him follow you to a dealer and have them do a transfer while he is standing there.

[bersaguy]

Very good call for sure. I would have walked if he was dang near giving the guns away................ :up: :up: :up:

[TrickyNicky]

Good call for sure. I wouldn't do a parking lot kind of buy under those circumstance.

I would offer to meet at an FFL and have them transferred. That and give him directions to the dmv. :rolleyes: Don't let the rifles go so easy if the deal was good IMO. If it wasn't good enough to warrant the above, I'd just keep looking.

[Steelharp]

Exactly the right thing. Good for you!

[RED333]

As everyone else said, good call.

[runco]

If you were looking for a legal and ethical response, yes you did right. 

[xjsnake]

Good Call.

[nightrunner]

Absolutely right call.

[tennessee01tacoma]

Either what you did or go to an ffl as tricky Nicky stated those are the only 2 safe legal options in your situation.

[vontar]

as said above, if was an undercover sting attempt, that won't make the news that KahrMan didn't take the bait.  Only those that miss the signs would end up on the news and as an example for doomberg.

 

Edit to correct, I didn't meant It was, but If it was.

Edited May 27, 2014 by vontar

[Clod Stomper]

Here's a question...

Assuming that the transaction takes place in TN, is the buyer, who is a resident of TN, committing a crime? The buyer would only be buying a firearm inside his state of residence and not crossing the state line.

Obviously a seller who crossed a state line to sell would be in violation. But would the buyer?

When in doubt, back out. But I'm not so sure it was an attempted sting. If it was, it was a pretty pathetic attempt.

[Hozzie]

Here's a question...

Assuming that the transaction takes place in TN, is the buyer, who is a resident of TN, committing a crime? The buyer would only be buying a firearm inside his state of residence and not crossing the state line.

Obviously a seller who crossed a state line to sell would be in violation. But would the buyer?

When in doubt, back out. But I'm not so sure it was an attempted sting. If it was, it was a pretty pathetic attempt.

Yes they are committing a crime. If you knowingly purchase a firearm from someone who can't sell it to you, it's a crime. Pretty cut and dry.


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Edited May 26, 2014 by Hozzie

[Oh Shoot]

Here's a question...

Assuming that the transaction takes place in TN, is the buyer, who is a resident of TN, committing a crime? The buyer would only be buying a firearm inside his state of residence and not crossing the state line.

Obviously a seller who crossed a state line to sell would be in violation. But would the buyer?

When in doubt, back out. But I'm not so sure it was an attempted sting. If it was, it was a pretty pathetic attempt.

 

Out of state resident would be committing clear cut crime selling the firearm here. However, I know of no prohibition under 18 USC 922 or other federal law,  for KahrMan to have bought the firearms, even if he knew the seller was a Michigan resident.

 

Pretty sure this is one of those "things that everybody knows" that simply isn't true.

 

The only thing I know that would have made it illegal for KahrMan is to have bought them if he "knew or had reasonable cause to believe" the firearms were stolen.

 

I suppose if ultimate push came to shove, there is some other section of federal or TN law that one could be charged with, like abetting a criminal act or something, but it doesn't seem to be illegal per se under federal law to buy firearms in your home state from an out of state resident, even if you know the seller is such.

 

- OS

Edited May 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Hozzie]

Out of state resident would be committing clear cut crime selling the firearm here. However, I know of no prohibition for KahrMan to have bought the firearms, even if he knew the seller was a Michigan resident.

Pretty sure this is one of those "things that everybody knows" that simply isn't true. (all determined under 18 USC 922 to my knowledge)

The only thing I know that would have made it illegal for KahrMan is is to have bought them if he "knew or had reasonable cause to believe" the firearms were stolen.

I suppose if ultimate push came to shove, there is some other section of federal or TN law that one could be charged with, like abetting a criminal act or something, but it doesn't seem to be illegal per se under federal law to buy firearms in your home state from an out of state resident, even if you know the seller is such.

- OS

I don't have the laws in front of me, but I will have respectfully disagree. I believe the intent if the law is clear regarding interstate sales between owners even if the buyer is in his home state. I certainly wouldn't want to be the case study. I am sure there are examples of this out there that have not ended well for the buyer.

I could be absolutely wrong too, but I bet if you ask ATF they would say don't do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oh Shoot]

I don't have the laws in front of me, but I will have respectfully disagree. I believe the intent if the law is clear regarding interstate sales between owners even if the buyer is in his home state....

 

Well, you can opine that, but unless someone can point out an actual reference in federal law, I'll continue to contend it is not illegal in and of itself.

 

It's not even illegal for me to buy a firearm in private sale in another state, if I don't bring it back into TN (though it would be illegal for the seller to knowingly do so).

 

USC 18 922:

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

 

If any definitions are needed for clarification,

 

USC 18 921:

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

 

- OS

[Dane]

[quote]T.C.A. 39-17-1316 (q) (1) It is an offense for a person to purchase or attempt to purchase a firearm knowing that the person is prohibited by state or federal law from owning, possessing or purchasing a firearm. (2) It is an offense to sell or offer to sell a firearm to a person knowing that the person is prohibited by state or federal law from owning, possessing or purchasing a firearm. (3) A violation of this subsection (q) is a Class A misdemeanor. [/quote] I would interpret this to mean that it would be an offense to purchase from someone that you know is not legal to sell. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Oh Shoot]

I would interpret this to mean that it would be an offense to purchase from someone that you know is not legal to sell. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Totally different matter. This is regarding persons who are prohibited from owning firearms period.

 

- OS

Edited May 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot