Cc at the gun show

[Schadenfreude]

Originally Posted by EDWSRTN

befor i enter i take the clip out.

Dude you packing a Garand?

[DaveTN]

now this is one thing that I can't understand. why can an off duty LEO, having no more and no fewer rights than me, able to carry anywhere he pleases, while I have to leave mine in the car just to go pay the cable bill. I mean, that's the whole point of licensed carry isn't it? to make sure that the people who are "allowed" to exercise their rights are responsible enough to do so?

No rights involved.

Cops are part of a “Special Groupâ€, just as you are.

It is illegal to carry a gun in Tennessee and 97% (or the vast majority) would be arrested if caught doing it.

You, on the other hand have purchased a special privilege from the state. You spent 8 hours (maybe) smoking and joking at the range and paid the state $115 so you could lug a gun around.

A cop, on the other hand has spent far more time training and meeting state mandated requirements. Carrying for him is a job requirement. However, it appears that Tennessee does put some restrictions on cops depending on whether or not they are “on dutyâ€. I don’t think most states make that distinction.

No one should be handling a loaded firearm in any building while groups of people are around; that includes cops and HCP holders. If you don’t check weapons at the door of a gun show someone will have an AD/ND.

[Guest JLowe]

They can't refuse me entry because I'm a officer, carrying, and "off-duty". Its a open to the public venue. You home is not a open to the public venue, so I can't come to your home without probable cause anyways. When an officer goes to court, he/she is on duty as it is a requirement of their job.

Considering that I've had approximately 400 + hours of POST certified firearms training in the last 10 years, including firearms instructor, SWAT, and other advanced schools; I have had alot more training than the average Handgun Carry Permit Holder. So, yeah, I am one of those special persons who gets to carry where I go. If you feel that you've been left out, I am willing to bet that you local department is taking applications, then you too can be a special person. BTW, the pay is crap, people don't want you around in general, the pay is crap, and you can get shot just for pulling somebody over for a traffic violation. So, come on and join us, you'll love it, I do.

[Oh Shoot]

It is not illegal to carry at a gun show in TN.

Depends on where gun show is, yes?

Chilhowee Park in Knoxville is no carry, gun show or not.

- OS

[molonlabetn]

They can't refuse me entry because I'm a officer, carrying, and "off-duty". Its a open to the public venue. You home is not a open to the public venue, so I can't come to your home without probable cause anyways. When an officer goes to court, he/she is on duty as it is a requirement of their job.

Considering that I've had approximately 400 + hours of POST certified firearms training in the last 10 years, including firearms instructor, SWAT, and other advanced schools; I have had alot more training than the average Handgun Carry Permit Holder. So, yeah, I am one of those special persons who gets to carry where I go. If you feel that you've been left out, I am willing to bet that you local department is taking applications, then you too can be a special person. BTW, the pay is crap, people don't want you around in general, the pay is crap, and you can get shot just for pulling somebody over for a traffic violation. So, come on and join us, you'll love it, I do.

I love it when right-to-carry is reduced to someone's opinion that not everyone's life has an equal value, depending solely on where they are... as if being able to defend oneself is somehow conditional on some certification which for the most part is irrelevant to a purely defensive scenario.

Thank you for you service, but I must say no thank you to sustaining some class system which determines who can fight to stay alive to the best of their ability and equipment, and who can't.

[Guest nj.piney]

the last gunshow in maryville was in the national guard armory. no carry zone ?

[molonlabetn]

I don't see why it would be, unless it was properly posted.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't see why it would be, unless it was properly posted.

Hell, I dunno half the time ...

Federal building exclusion?

- OS

[molonlabetn]

That's only if it actually is a federal building, I suppose it could be.

[Fallguy]

They can't refuse me entry because I'm a officer, carrying, and "off-duty". Its a open to the public venue. You home is not a open to the public venue, so I can't come to your home without probable cause anyways. When an officer goes to court, he/she is on duty as it is a requirement of their job.

Considering that I've had approximately 400 + hours of POST certified firearms training in the last 10 years, including firearms instructor, SWAT, and other advanced schools; I have had alot more training than the average Handgun Carry Permit Holder. So, yeah, I am one of those special persons who gets to carry where I go. If you feel that you've been left out, I am willing to bet that you local department is taking applications, then you too can be a special person. BTW, the pay is crap, people don't want you around in general, the pay is crap, and you can get shot just for pulling somebody over for a traffic violation. So, come on and join us, you'll love it, I do.

Regardless of being armed or not, I don't think being a LEO should mean you can go just anywhere and everywhere you want to, even at places open to the public. If you have no official business there and it is private property (even open to the public) the property owner should be able to deny entry to you just like anybody else. Even more so if you are not in the jurisdictional area of the department you work for.

Also...as a LEO you do not get to carry everywhere you go either. There are restrictions in 39-17-1350 very similar (but not the same) to those for us with a HCP, the biggest difference is that a sign posted per 39-17-1359 does not apply to LEOs.

[Oh Shoot]

I love it when right-to-carry is reduced to someone's opinion that not everyone's life has an equal value, depending solely on where they are... as if being able to defend oneself is somehow conditional on some certification which for the most part is irrelevant to a purely defensive scenario.

Thank you for you service, but I must say no thank you to sustaining some class system which determines who can fight to stay alive to the best of their ability and equipment, and who can't.

Left the whole quote.

Quite eloquent.

Hear, hear.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

That's only if it actually is a federal building, I suppose it could be.

Can't carry a cop, can't carry a lawyer, either.

Tell you what, I really like the feel of XD SC on my hip, but a Kahr in the pocket can go anywhere.

- OS

[Guest JLowe]

Regardless of being armed or not, I don't think being a LEO should mean you can go just anywhere and everywhere you want to, even at places open to the public. If you have no official business there and it is private property (even open to the public) the property owner should be able to deny entry to you just like anybody else. Even more so if you are not in the jurisdictional area of the department you work for.

Also...as a LEO you do not get to carry everywhere you go either. There are restrictions in 39-17-1350 very similar (but not the same) to those for us with a HCP, the biggest difference is that a sign posted per 39-17-1359 does not apply to LEOs.

You seem to think that everywhere I go is on "official business" its not. Although you seem to feel that LEO's shouldn't be afforded special privileges under TN or Federal law, we are. If the venue is open to the public, its no longer private property in which you are viewing it. Its not like your home, its is now a general public access area. While the property owners or those renting the property are allowed to chose whether or not the allow a HCP holder to carry on those premises is within the law, they cannot deny LEO's whether they are on duty or not. TN law allows us to carry and our departments require us to carry our identification and weapon at all possible times. In our respective jurisdictions or not. Like I said before, if you don't like that we are afforded "special" privileges, you can join us at any time, if you meet the qualifications. What you don't seem to understand from my original post was this, I don't feel that those who have went through the necessary steps to obtain their HCP should be denied entry to a place while carry their weapon, leaving them and others without means of proper defense against a violent attack. I feel that these citizens are responsible persons for the most part. You seem to be more worried about where I can carry, not where you can. Your focus is on the wrong issue.

[ninja128]

Tell you a funny one. I went to a show in Knoxville a few years ago, when I was reaching for my wallet my shirt went back to far and exposed my weapon. I had my badge on in front of my weapon. The lady taking the tickets told me that I couldn't carry my gun into the show. I explained to her that I was law enforcement and can carry my weapon at all times. She proceeded to tell me that I could not and would be escorted off the property by law enforcement if I did not comply. I asked to speak with her boss. The guy comes up, I show him my credentials, he tells me that I can't carry a loaded gun into the show, because they had the right to refuse to allowed armed carry. I attempted to explain the TCA to them and got a blank look. He decides to go and get one of the officers working the show. The Deputy comes up and looks at my ID, turns to the workers and says "yeah, he can carry and you can't prevent it". They start to argue with him saying that I wasn't in uniform and he explains TCA again. Finally it was sorted out and I went in with my gun as is. It really annoyed me that these persons didn't know the law. I started thinking about CCW persons and why they don't want them carrying as well, prevents crime you know. I understand the safety issue, if your bringing a gun to sell or get worked on, but if your carrying and are going to keep it in the holster unless needed, I don't see the problem. I get really irritated at those who want to stifle freedom, yet wish to profit off of it by selling the things we need. Rant off.

love you man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the most mocho way of course. I totally get what you said and LOVE it. I HATE that anyone... cop or not, is restricted in any way to lawfully defend themselves. PERIOD>

Edited October 30, 2008 by ninja128

[ninja128]

Regardless of being armed or not, I don't think being a LEO should mean you can go just anywhere and everywhere you want to, even at places open to the public. If you have no official business there and it is private property (even open to the public) the property owner should be able to deny entry to you just like anybody else. Even more so if you are not in the jurisdictional area of the department you work for.

Also...as a LEO you do not get to carry everywhere you go either. There are restrictions in 39-17-1350 very similar (but not the same) to those for us with a HCP, the biggest difference is that a sign posted per 39-17-1359 does not apply to LEOs.

........and if I so happen to be in a place where I can NOT carry.....I hope a off duty officer is there to protect me because HE or SHE was the only person allowed to carry. I'm sure you would hope for the same thing.

[Fallguy]

You seem to think that everywhere I go is on "official business" its not. Although you seem to feel that LEO's shouldn't be afforded special privileges under TN or Federal law, we are. If the venue is open to the public, its no longer private property in which you are viewing it. Its not like your home, its is now a general public access area. While the property owners or those renting the property are allowed to chose whether or not the allow a HCP holder to carry on those premises is within the law, they cannot deny LEO's whether they are on duty or not. TN law allows us to carry and our departments require us to carry our identification and weapon at all possible times. In our respective jurisdictions or not. Like I said before, if you don't like that we are afforded "special" privileges, you can join us at any time, if you meet the qualifications. What you don't seem to understand from my original post was this, I don't feel that those who have went through the necessary steps to obtain their HCP should be denied entry to a place while carry their weapon, leaving them and others without means of proper defense against a violent attack. I feel that these citizens are responsible persons for the most part. You seem to be more worried about where I can carry, not where you can. Your focus is on the wrong issue.

No sir...you are focused on the wrong issue I was addressing. I completely agree that law allows you to carry anywhere you can go [excepted as provided for 39-17-1350©]. I am not talking about whether a LEO or a HCP holder is armed or not. My issue is that being a LEO shouldn't mean you can go anywhere you want to go period though. Private property that is open to the public does not cease to become private property that is controlled by the owner. If I walk into a store the owner can tell me to leave for any reason. If you are there just to buy a coke, not to investigate a crime, not on patrol or anything, why can't he tell you he does not want you in his store either? Just because you are higher class of citizen by being a LEO?

As I've said in another thread, I've worked in LE....I guess one reason that I don't still is I just couldn't puff out my chest far enough and act like I was always right and everyone else was always wrong. That I knew I couldn't simply come and go and do as I please, that the law still applies to those that enforce it. If someone becomes an officer simply so they can have privileges that others don't and feel they are above everyone else, they are in it for the wrong reason.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest Major Pain]

It is my life and my chances and I will protect myself. Don't ask don't tell. When they start doing body searches I will quit going.--MP

[DaveTN]

You seem to think that everywhere I go is on "official business" its not. Although you seem to feel that LEO's shouldn't be afforded special privileges under TN or Federal law, we are. If the venue is open to the public, its no longer private property in which you are viewing it. Its not like your home, its is now a general public access area. While the property owners or those renting the property are allowed to chose whether or not the allow a HCP holder to carry on those premises is within the law, they cannot deny LEO's whether they are on duty or not. TN law allows us to carry and our departments require us to carry our identification and weapon at all possible times. In our respective jurisdictions or not. Like I said before, if you don't like that we are afforded "special" privileges, you can join us at any time, if you meet the qualifications. What you don't seem to understand from my original post was this, I don't feel that those who have went through the necessary steps to obtain their HCP should be denied entry to a place while carry their weapon, leaving them and others without means of proper defense against a violent attack. I feel that these citizens are responsible persons for the most part. You seem to be more worried about where I can carry, not where you can. Your focus is on the wrong issue.

I think you should be able to be armed 24/7 anywhere in the state. That’s how it was in my state. Thanks for your service.

[DaveTN]

As I've said in another thread, I've worked in LE....I guess one reason that I don't still is I just couldn't puff out my chest far enough and act like I was always right and everyone else was always wrong. That I knew I couldn't simply come and go and do as I please, that the law still applies to those that enforce it.

Oh please… So all those that stayed in LE have lower standards or principals than you?

[Fallguy]

Oh please… So all those that stayed in LE have lower standards or principals than you?

No, not all.

I more meant that some simply have a higher tolerance for the few that do act that way.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest JLowe]

No sir...you are focused on the wrong issue I was addressing. I completely agree that law allows you to carry anywhere you can go [excepted as provided for 39-17-1350©]. I am not talking about whether a LEO or a HCP holder is armed or not. My issue is that being a LEO shouldn't mean you can go anywhere you want to go period though. Private property that is open to the public does not cease to become private property that is controlled by the owner. If I walk into a store the owner can tell me to leave for any reason. If you are there just to buy a coke, not to investigate a crime, not on patrol or anything, why can't he tell you he does not want you in his store either? Just because you are higher class of citizen by being a LEO?

As I've said in another thread, I've worked in LE....I guess one reason that I don't still is I just couldn't puff out my chest far enough and act like I was always right and everyone else was always wrong. That I knew I couldn't simply come and go and do as I please, that the law still applies to those that enforce it. If someone becomes an officer simply so they can have privileges that others don't and feel they are above everyone else, they are in it for the wrong reason.

I am a LEO, because I know that I can stand up and protect those who can't protect themselves from the evil of the world. I live by the law every day of my life and I don't feel that I am above the law at anytime and I do live to a higher moral standard, because people like you judge us that way. I don't know how long you were an officer or where at, but I do know that some people are not right for the job. I don't puff out my chest, but I do go when others run away, because its my job. I'm not always right and I will admit that, but I do study the law and stay updated on new laws and how to enforce them. There are a few laws that I don't like, but its my job to enforce them anyways. Whatever your personal reasons are for disliking LEO's and our "privileges", get over it, because the only person affected by it is you. It seems to me that you don't like the "Alpha male" personalities that most officers have. We have those, because we have to be confident in what we do, because our lives, your life, and the lives of others depend on us. Have a good day sir.

Edited November 3, 2008 by JLowe

[Guest JLowe]

I think you should be able to be armed 24/7 anywhere in the state. That’s how it was in my state. Thanks for your service.

Thank you!

[Oh Shoot]

Thank you!

I also believe that a currently employed LEO who is sworn to protect and serve at all times on duty or off (as I believe most are) should be able to carry anywhere, anytime.

Even eating at a booze serving establishment while technically "off the clock".

If the pledge you take is different from what I understand it to be, then I might revise my opinion.

We civilians with HCP are not duty bound to risk our lives to protect those around us.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I am a LEO, because I know that I can stand up and protect those who can't protect themselves from the evil of the world. I live by the law every day of my life and I don't feel that I am above the law at anytime and I do live to a higher moral standard, because people like you judge us that way. I don't know how long you were an officer or where at, but I do know that some people are not right for the job. I don't puff out my chest, but I do go when others run away, because its my job. I'm not always right and I will admit that, but I do study the law and stay updated on new laws and how to enforce them. There are a few laws that I don't like, but its my job to enforce them anyways. Whatever your personal reasons are for disliking LEO's and our "privileges", get over it, because the only person affected by it is you. It seems to me that you don't like the "Alpha male" personalities that most officers have. We have those, because we have to be confident in what we do, because our lives, your life, and the lives of others depend on us. Have a good day sir.

You seem to keep missing my point.

I do not dislike LEOs. I do dislike law-breakers and those that think they are better than everyone else. (Not saying you are either).

As far as your privileges, I have said the law allows you to be armed in places that those with a HCP can not. But my point is the law does not allow you to be just anywhere you want at anytime armed or not.

Private property is still Private Property open to the public or not. The owner of that private property can deny entry to anyone he chooses, whether it is Joe the Plumber, a LEO or the President of the United States. The only way a LEO can enter the property against the will of the owner is if he has a warrant or some other legal grounds/reason to enter. Just because you want to is not a legal reason.

If I ever happen to own a convince store or the like....and you come in and I tell you to leave and you don't immediately leave, I'll charge you with trespassing 39-14-405 (you'll notice there is no exception for LEOs) and you can charge me with whatever law you think I have violated by asking you to leave my own property.

You may also want to see 2-7-103© since you think there are no restrictions as to where you can go.

[Guest JLowe]

You seem to keep missing my point.

I do not dislike LEOs. I do dislike law-breakers and those that think they are better than everyone else. (Not saying you are either).

As far as your privileges, I have said the law allows you to be armed in places that those with a HCP can not. But my point is the law does not allow you to be just anywhere you want at anytime armed or not.

Private property is still Private Property open to the public or not. The owner of that private property can deny entry to anyone he chooses, whether it is Joe the Plumber, a LEO or the President of the United States. The only way a LEO can enter the property against the will of the owner is if he has a warrant or some other legal grounds/reason to enter. Just because you want to is not a legal reason.

If I ever happen to own a convince store or the like....and you come in and I tell you to leave and you don't immediately leave, I'll charge you with trespassing 39-14-405 (you'll notice there is no exception for LEOs) and you can charge me with whatever law you think I have violated by asking you to leave my own property.

You may also want to see 2-7-103© since you think there are no restrictions as to where you can go.

I never said that I could where ever I please. And I never said that private property is not private property. I said that when you open you property to the public, your ability to restrict persons must fall with in state and federal laws. If you chose to see fit that you deny me entrance just because I am an officer of the law, I will chose to see fit that I file a discrimination lawsuit against you and your company and I can promise that public opinion and law will be on my side. You sir are missing my point all together. I stated that I think that those with a HCP should be allowed to carry at all times as well. I am required by my department to take action when a crime is in progress if I am able when I am "off duty". That means being prepared at all times to do my duty i.e. possessing my weapon, my identification, and means to secure a prisoner. I am allowed by state and federal law to have my weapon in my possession when I am "off duty" for the same reasons. Now, state or federal law does not require me to take action for crimes in progress when I am not working, but my own moral code forces me too. You see, if I happen to be walking through the parking lot of the alcohol serving establishment you just left and some individuals are beating you down to the ground, I could just walk on by and do nothing, because the law allows. In reality I will intervene and do everything in my power to help you, unless we are on your private property, at which point I will not be there, because you don't want armed off duty LEO's coming onto your property. Now, I am done with this exercise in futility, because you are of your own mind and I am no longer going to waste my time with your lack of respect and indignation towards LEO's. Have a good day sir.