Supply, Demand, Pricing and the future of rimfire shooting

[graycrait]

I've been reading everything I can about .22LR supply. Shooting .22LR is one of my major hobbies but I won't keep it up if availability and pricing doesn't improve.

Is there any good reason that this outfit has not found that "equilibrium" price point?
http://www.surplusammo.com/22lr/

I'm not sure if surplusammo's pricing is extreme in today's market because I haven't seen anyone else with as much "variety" available in one place. I'm not getting any younger and waiting for an approximation of pre-Sandy Hook prices and variety might not happen.

I used to laugh at how restrictive the shooting sports were to the average German when I was stationed there for quite a few years, knowing that nearly anyone in the US could shoot due to pricing, availability and the less restrictive environment.

Then there is the issue of "gun folk" sticking it to other gun folk by propagating "unfounded" fear driving up prices, further shrinking available supply. 

Are there any verifiable facts that anyone knows about which shows that supply/demand/pricing will "normalize" towards pre-Sandy Hook levels? 

 

I see no evidence that there has been any alleged increase in .22LR supply or that supply will increase in the foreseeable future.  What do the gun manufacturers think?
 

[stillstanding669]

I beg to differ with the idea that there is not enough / too low supply versus too high demand in the realm of 22lr.  When I can patiently wait and still get decent priced ammo from Target Sports USA and Cabelas shipped at about 10.5 cents per round in this market, which does still bother me that it has made it to this level, I have to say there will be an end to the madness sometime in our lifetimes.  There is a large amount of ammo already out there on Gunbroker that the gougers have built up for sale.  I see that they used to try to sale 500 round bricks, then it was 1000 rounds, and I just saw where there was a few with 10,000, 33,000, all the way to 55,000!  Sooner or later the old gougers are going to realize that they aren't ever going to sell those large stashes of over-priced 22lr.  That is when the prices will normal out, and Walmart will make us all happy again.

 

Anyone buying from those gougers is just prolonging this madness.  I don't like how much I had to spend to get some, but I am out of the market until it does normalize.  I can control that "want to be greedy" attitude, and not become a hoarder!

[DaveTN]

Are there any verifiable facts that anyone knows about which shows that supply/demand/pricing will "normalize" towards pre-Sandy Hook levels? 
 
I see no evidence that there has been any alleged increase in .22LR supply or that supply will increase in the foreseeable future.  What do the gun manufacturers think?

I just read a story that CCI is adding capital equipment. In this economy manufacturers are leery of making capital equipment expenditures for a demand that will not stay high. Unless there is some political intervention; supplies will return. Now whether or not prices will return is anybody’s guess, if folks are willing to pay the price they won’t, unless stock is sitting on the shelves.

The gun haters didn’t create this pricing and hording; gun owners did. The firearms market will have to straighten it out.

[miller_man]

Ya, I think the 22 cazyness is still going strong mostly because so many people are still buying/hoarding it. I've also read that its pretty low on the list of calibers for manufactures to produce because the profit margin is so low.

 

I know I've walked away from shooting 22lr for now. Which sucks because it is so fun, but half the fun was also tied to it being so cheap to shoot, not anymore! I can't bring myself to shoot any when I think about how I used go shoot a 500 rnd box for fun over a few hours for around $20.

 

I've bought a little here and there over the last few months (like real little, like maybe 1-2k rnds), but it was all from the store at resonable prices and I was buying other calibers anyway.

 

I hope it comes back to the old normal, and sooner than later, but I've mostly put it out of my mind and just go shoot my centerfire cartridges.

[hipower]

I'm glad for you that you think 1-2k rounds is a real little. But for most of us, depending on our locations, that is not what is happening. AT least that is what I see and hear.

 

I have bought exactly 200 rounds of 22shorts for my Olympic pistol. And that at a restricted one at a time situation.

[dlm37015]

I am finding that the wholesale price is starting to go up some but I have been able to get more

Edited May 8, 2014 by dlm37015

[hipower]

That's(pricing increases) are pretty much a given in this situation. Materials costs should be the determining factor on that, but I do believe the supply side economics have a lot to do with it as well.

 

Maybe one day I'll manage to get some from you.

[Troutburger]

I've basically stopped shooting esp rimfire. 

 

I can shoot 9mm reloads for what .04-.07 per round, so I just cant justify .10-.11/round for .22lr.

[bersaguy]

I need to go through my ammo safes today just to see what I have and don't have. Only thing I have been shooting is 380's and know what that inventory is because I have 1 safe dedicated strictly to it. Need to go through others I guess. I have not bought any 22lr since I got some from David about what, three months ago or longer?

[tnhawk]

I delayed getting a Henry .22 for several months due to my concern over ammo availability and prices. It's a nice rifle and I'd like to shoot it alot more than I'm able to. However I'll limit its use untill prices are within reason.

[krunchnik]

I have bought exactly 550 rounds of Federal Champion in the last year and a half,thats all I have been able to find.And then I purchased it from a buddy that sold his 22-and he sold it to me for$30.00.

[Guest BCR#1]

I was getting a brick of Thunderbolts every week for almost two months until I moved back to 1st. shift. It sucks not getting the ammo but it sucks worse working all night.

 

Bill

[1gewehr]

Higher prices reduce hoarding and large sales.  This allows supplies to build up to the point where prices will decrease due to market competition.  Demand for ALL ammunition is till very high.  The problem has been increased by the lack of imports.  Some imported ammo is starting to trickle in.  But permits go through the State Department.  You can imagine how high a priority that is for that crowd! :waiting:

[kieefer]

http://www.unammo.com/

[frankmako]

buying from those gougers is just prolonging this madness.  i have not gotten any in over a year.  can not beat the gougers to the store.  glad that i had some before all this mess. i will not pay the high price for it.  

[et45]

buying from those gougers is just prolonging this madness.  i have not gotten any in over a year.  can not beat the gougers to the store.  glad that i had some before all this mess. i will not pay the high price for it.  

swing by Acadamy at Hamilton Place.I have bought some there this year.Fri.morning they had around 50 50RD boxes of CCI for $3.50 a box and about 100 boxes of Agulia for $3.95.I stopped by there around 7pm and there was still some of the Agulia left.They also have a lot of the Agulia with no gunpowder as well.

[Oh Shoot]

...  The problem has been increased by the lack of imports.  Some imported ammo is starting to trickle in.  But permits go through the State Department.  You can imagine how high a priority that is for that crowd! :waiting:

 

I know of no new bans on imported ammo under BHO's presidency except the recent zap on 5.45 7N6 surplus?

 

Are there countries who used to export ammo to us that haven't been able to in the last 6 years or so?

 

- OS

Edited May 11, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Guest Brutnus]

swing by Acadamy at Hamilton Place.I have bought some there this year.Fri.morning they had around 50 50RD boxes of CCI for $3.50 a box and about 100 boxes of Agulia for $3.95.I stopped by there around 7pm and there was still some of the Agulia left.They also have a lot of the Agulia with no gunpowder as well.

 

 

i go by there and they said there hasn't been a brick in almost 2 months though.

[1gewehr]

I know of no new bans on imported ammo under BHO's presidency except the recent zap on 5.45 7N6 surplus?

 

Are there countries who used to export ammo to us that haven't been able to in the last 6 years or so?

 

- OS

 

The process doesn't require a 'ban' to slow or stop imports.  Import permits are only good for a specific period and exact description and quantity.  I'm hearing that approving new permits from the State Department are taking as long as Form4 approvals from ATF (9-12 months).  Increasing the quantity or changing the exact item requires a new permit.  ie; you originally wanted to import 10,000 cases of Russian lacquer-coated steel case 7.62x39 ammo.  The factory in Russia tells you it's all polymer coating now.  New permit required.

[Oh Shoot]

The process doesn't require a 'ban' to slow or stop imports.  Import permits are only good for a specific period and exact description and quantity.  I'm hearing that approving new permits from the State Department are taking as long as Form4 approvals from ATF (9-12 months).  Increasing the quantity or changing the exact item requires a new permit.  ie; you originally wanted to import 10,000 cases of Russian lacquer-coated steel case 7.62x39 ammo.  The factory in Russia tells you it's all polymer coating now.  New permit required.

 

Where are you "hearing" that?  Certainly seems to be no shortage of Wolf imports from Russian and Ukraine and elsewhere. Or Tulammo, Herter's, Monarch,  Red Army, etc.

 

'Course I expect any day to hear that BHO has shut down all of it from Russia to punish them. Which of course will punish American gun owners.

 

- OS

Edited May 13, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Guest BCR#1]

i go by there and they said there hasn't been a brick in almost 2 months though.

There are bricks to be had, just not there.

 

Bill

[JPS]

'Course I expect any day to hear that BHO has shut down all of it from Russia to punish them. Which of course will punish American gun owners.

 

- OS

 

I'm surprised this hasn't already been done, two birds with one stone and all...

[SingleStack]

well i actually dont blame the people making some money on the 22s. heck i sold a few bricks for way more than i paid for them. but i sure wouldnt pay those prices.

Let supply side economics run its course.

[tnguy]

well i actually dont blame the people making some money on the 22s. heck i sold a few bricks for way more than i paid for them. but i sure wouldnt pay those prices.

Let supply side economics run its course.

:popcorn:

[JAB]

well i actually dont blame the people making some money on the 22s.

Allow me to rephrase that for you:

 

Well, I actually don't blame the people who are hurting other gun owners and really hurting interest in the shooting sports, in general, by grabbing up all the ammo that the average, working person could actually afford to buy in large enough quantities to be able to have a fun, all day range or plinking session with family and friends and reselling it at profiteering prices.

 

That isn't intended as a jab at you, personally but it is exactly what these profiteers and scalpers are doing.

Edited May 14, 2014 by JAB