Non-NFA SBR?

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

Saw this in a LGS the other day. While the stated purpose of the "brace" is indicated in the picture, when the strap is closed around the support, it makes a reasonably stable stock. Did some poking around the web and apparently the ATF issued a letter to local LE (not here) that while they realize lots of folks will use this as a shoulder fired weapon, it IS, by definition, a pistol, and they do not regulate on HOW it is fired (paraphrasing). Thinking this and the slide fire are living on borrowed time although I hope not....thoughts?

Edited May 5, 2014 by theconstitutionrocks

[Tobashadow]

The vertical forward grip on that setup will get you tho. You can use a slanted grip like the magpul ones tho.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The vertical forward grip on that setup will get you tho. You can use a slanted grip like the magpul ones tho.

 

Depends on OAL. If it is 26" or more then a vertical forward grip is fine.

[Romad7]

I think it'll be fine unless of course one is used in a high profile shooting. I built my 300 BLK pistol with one and I no longer care about SBRs this thing is great.

I don't see what would cause the ATF to change their stance on the brace. It's not as if there is any new info out there that hasn't been considered. They said it does not turn a pistol into an SBR and they don't even care if you use it the same manner as a stock. As long as you don't modify it in any way then it's all good.

Here's mine (upper and stock in background go with my rifle lower):

[Oh Shoot]

I liked it a lot before the SB15, now I love it. Any aesthetic reservations pale compared to the functionality:

 

Possible esoteric legal issues:

 

- with the VFG attached, it's not a "handgun", so HCP doesn't cover it. And if you conceal it on person,  federally becomes an AOW.

- also technically can't possess it loaded in vehicle, since it's not a "handgun", "rifle", or "shotgun". (this changes as of July1, where any "firearm" is okay)

 

Main reason I made the VFG quick detach.

 

 

- OS

[MacGyver]

I was just wondering if someone made a longer pistol tube for use with the brace.  Turns out they do.  This one by KAK industries is 1.5" longer than a regular pistol tube:

 

http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-super-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube-kit-plain

[Capbyrd]

For a lot of people, its fine and replaces the need for an SBR.  For someone that wants a longer length of pull, it sucks and even the KAK tube ain't long enough. 

[Oh Shoot]

I was just wondering if someone made a longer pistol tube for use with the brace.  Turns out they do.  This one by KAK industries is 1.5" longer than a regular pistol tube:

 

http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-super-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube-kit-plain

 

It's Da Bomb. That's the second castle nut version in your link, which is on my heater above, also make one that doesn't use it.

 

Gives 12" LOP. They have spacers to set it back up to another 1.8" also.

 

A more upright grip like the MOE K2 on mine makes a huge difference in ergonomics also.

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

For a lot of people, its fine and replaces the need for an SBR.  For someone that wants a longer length of pull, it sucks and even the KAK tube ain't long enough. 

 

Another option is to use rifle buffer tube.

 

I find the 12" LOP just fine though, and I'm 6' 2". Same as Crickett rifle, about .5" shorter than Ruger American Compact, heck only an inch diff between it and a WASR.

 

Again, the upright pistol grip for a short LOP makes an amazing diff for such a small variable.

 

- OS

Edited May 5, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Capbyrd]

I know it works for people.  And I was surprised by it the first time that I shouldered one.  But it still isn't comfortable for me. 

[cz75b]

Another option is to use rifle buffer tube.

 

will the sig brace work on a rifle buffer tube?

[Oh Shoot]

will the sig brace work on a rifle buffer tube?

 

Folks say it needs to be built up with a round or three of electrical tape or whatever for snug fit is all.

 

Then one of a couple of solutions for the takedown pin detente/spring, since no butt plate.

 

- OS

Edited May 6, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Capbyrd]

Then one of a couple of solutions for the takedown pin detente/spring, since no butt plate.

- OS

New seekins receiver takes care of that. Detent and spring are installed under the grip.

[cz75b]

without getting too technical wouldnt the electrical tape be modifying it?if not couldnt you just adjust the sig brace then then put a zip tie on the pistol buffer to where it was comfortable for you?

[Romad7]

without getting too technical wouldnt the electrical tape be modifying it?if not couldnt you just adjust the sig brace then then put a zip tie on the pistol buffer to where it was comfortable for you?

You wouldn't be changing the brace only the tube so that the brace fits. Just like the shoulder on the KAK tube.

[Oh Shoot]

You wouldn't be changing the brace only the tube so that the brace fits. Just like the shoulder on the KAK tube.

 

Yep. People have put the brace on some normal pistol tubes that were very tight fit too, and when they tried to use a different tube the SB15 had stretched out to where they had to do the tape thing too.

 

Although some seem to have had success with oven or hot water to to get brace to return close to normal (yeah, you'd think it would make it bigger, not smaller).

 

Main thing with using a rifle tube is that you need to tap takedown pin and detente channel and use set screw, or just forget them altogether and use KNS pin. Or the new lower that Cap mentioned, which I'd not heard of before.

 

- OS

[Capbyrd]

It's new. I wish it looked like the old lower. But I might use one anyways.


http://www.seekinsprecision.com/parts-and-accessories/ar-lowers/seekins-precision-sba15-lower-includes-ambi-bolt-stop-assy.html Edited May 6, 2014 by Capbyrd

[2.ooohhh]

For a lot of people, its fine and replaces the need for an SBR.  For someone that wants a longer length of pull, it sucks and even the KAK tube ain't long enough. 

 

 

If you need a longer LOP KAK makes a spacer set for their buffer tubes that can space the SB15 out even further.

Edited May 6, 2014 by 2.ooohhh

[Dolomite_supafly]

Henry make a clamp on sling attachment. It is for 6 position tubes but it should work for a rifle tube as well. Mission First Tactical makes one.

[whitewolf001]

Hey Dolomite, mind shooting me a link where the info can found on OAL? Is that BATFE ruling or does that fall under TCA?

[Guest jrock4]

I'm a big fan of the brace... Here's my conceal carry "pistol"..

[Oh Shoot]

Hey Dolomite, mind shooting me a link where the info can found on OAL? Is that BATFE ruling or does that fall under TCA?

 

Not speaking for Dol, but It's all BATF. The only thing TCA seems to have a say on at all regarding anything non-NFA regarding length is that part of "handgun" definition is having a barrel of under 12 inches.

 

Not that having one with barrel of 12" or over is illegal, and TCA doesn't mention just what it would like to call that. Guess could technically figure into HCP carry though.

 

At any rate, a muzzle device doesn't figure into legal OAL unless permanently attached because it's not considered part of the barrel unless it is, and OAL length is measured to the end of the barrel. I've never found anything that has ever been ruled as contributing to the butt end of a firearm for OAL except a grip or stock.

 

Dunno if that answered your exact question, though.

 

- OS

 

edit: oh, you asked for a link. Here's a BATF letter explaining how OAL is determined and measured (on page 3)

 

http://home.comcast.net/~routedriver/pub/misc/OAL/OAL1.png

 

http://home.comcast.net/~routedriver/pub/misc/OAL/OAL2.png

 

http://home.comcast.net/~routedriver/pub/misc/OAL/OAL3.png

 

 

Edited May 10, 2014 by Oh Shoot