Question for you guitarists.

[Randall53]

I've always messed around with guitars. Years ago I played some Lynyrd Skynyrd, ZZ Top, Allman Brothers etc...I do have a Washburn Les Paul copy with an old Crate amp that's fun to mess with. I'm not a an highly accomplished player, but I stil like to pick out songs. What I'm after is something I could find in a pawn shop or craigslist that i could plug in that will provide the fuzz and sustain used back in the 70's. What's a rather inexpensive way to do this? I've looked at the new equipment but it all seems to be high tech and way over the top for what I want or need.  Any suggestions?

[Lowpower]

Vox makes a modeling amp. They're normally called a Valtronix. I have the 120VT. It has wah-wah, fuzz, you name it, built in. 

I see them in all sizes at the pawn shops a lot and they're pretty inexpensive. Mine also has switchable wattage so you can switch from 30 watts rms

to 60 or 120. That way you can still drive it without rattling the windows. 

 

Here's a tube of one...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urert0ZJTHs

[Peace]

1) buy a fender blues junior, used... even in "non-pristine" shape, they are decent, decent all-tube amps. - and better starting points than most of the junk in that market.  ** you may rather have a small, used marshall, but I don't think you will touch the tone quality of the Blues Junior for anywhere near the price.

USED Fender "Blues Junior".. not a "blues junior II" or "blues junior III"

 

 

2) If you want fuzz, buy a used fuzz pedal... if you are just messin' around, it won't matter much which one - someone else will be able to point you in the right direction.

 

3) Keep it simple, and keep your cables as short as you can (shortest total length - if (2) 6' cables will work for you, use 6's instead of 10's or 12's.

 

 

*** if you live in an apartment,... hmm.. a tube amp may not be viable.  They make tone with high voltage -and generally convert that voltage to amplitude... which means even the small tube amps are loud.  - as they should be.   :)

[Fourtyfive]

There's an app for that http://www.ikmultimedia.com

[hipower]

There is an app for Everything these days!

[TrickyNicky]

One thing to keep in mind, of the artists you mentioned ZZ Top is the only one to have used much fuzz. Mostly what you're hearing on those old albums is natural breakup from overdriven tubes. People have been trying for years (since at least the late 60's) to replicate that tone with solid state tech. After years of trying they're starting to get pretty close.
I thought I wanted a fuzz at one time too, for me it was not what I was after ultimately.

I would suggest that if you want to try out lots of different sounds from home, keep your Crate as the clean sounds are usually a fine jumping off point. Instead of looking for any one pedal or effect, grab a used Line 6 pod. Should be able to find one at or under $200 and while the sounds won't be 100% "right", 9/10 non musicians won't be able to notice. The pod has really cool modeling capabilities and ran through your amp will give you a lot of tones to mess with. To too it off you can plug headphones into it and noodle the night away without bothering your spouse or neighbors.

If you absolutely just want a fuzz pedal, I have never been let down by electro harmonics.

[Guest ddmoit]

I recently got rid of my too-heavy-to-lug-around Peavey amp and picked up a small Yamaha THR10.  I absolutely love it.  It produces a wealth of sound for just a little money and a little space.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I have a 15 watt 10" speaker peavey classic (dunno if they still make a similar model). All tube with circuit similar to vox ac15 (or half an ac30). Its got lots of gain and will do anything from twang to zz top without any steenkin fuzz boxes.

 

The biggest problem it had was that the speaker was too high quality, so replaced it with a 10" tiny alnico magnet weber vst "new vintage" stiff coned super twanger, then built an open back external cab loaded with a clestion greenback for an alternate heavier flavor of twang.

 

Used line 6 pods go purt cheap and new ones aren't outrageous priced, for awhile it seemed every guitarist in the world had to have a pod. They are not too bad, but the market is glutted with many kinds of amp modeling boxes.

 

A local pawn shop has several used line 6 small amps, which have pods built in. A used line 6 amp might be a better deal than a stompbox, if you don't have an amp.

 

Last time I looked, digitech made some good multi fx stompboxes that were cheap, easy to program, and didn't sound too bad. Zoom is a japanese company that also makes inexpensive multi fx stomp boxes, but I was never real impressed with zoom. Maybe they are better nowadays.

 

Edit: I fergot you are local in hixson. That pawnsop on 153 north of the dam, has a purt good assortment of not-bad geetar stuff, at not-bad prices. They are the ones who usually have a few used line 6 amps. 

Edited May 4, 2014 by Lester Weevils

[jimmydeuce]

You can get kinda-sorta close with what you have by adding a pedal/effect unit/modeler but a digital signal sounds, well........digital. It just depends on how close you want your tone to be. There's a lot of lower cost options available these days.

 

I've got a couple smaller amps I run clean and use pedals. Even with the 'booteek' analog pedals I have they still don't sound quite as good as a guitar plugged straight in to a Marshall.

[TrickyNicky]

I have a 15 watt 10" speaker peavey classic (dunno if they still make a similar model). All tube with circuit similar to vox ac15 (or half an ac30). Its got lots of gain and will do anything from twang to zz top without any steenkin fuzz boxes.
 
The biggest problem it had was that the speaker was too high quality, so replaced it with a 10" tiny alnico magnet weber vst "new vintage" stiff coned super twanger, then built an open back external cab loaded with a clestion greenback for an alternate heavier flavor of twang.
 
Used line 6 pods go purt cheap and new ones aren't outrageous priced, for awhile it seemed every guitarist in the world had to have a pod. They are not too bad, but the market is glutted with many kinds of amp modeling boxes.
 
A local pawn shop has several used line 6 small amps, which have pods built in. A used line 6 amp might be a better deal than a stompbox, if you don't have an amp.
 
Last time I looked, digitech made some good multi fx stompboxes that were cheap, easy to program, and didn't sound too bad. Zoom is a japanese company that also makes inexpensive multi fx stomp boxes, but I was never real impressed with zoom. Maybe they are better nowadays.
 
Edit: I fergot you are local in hixson. That pawnsop on 153 north of the dam, has a purt good assortment of not-bad geetar stuff, at not-bad prices. They are the ones who usually have a few used line 6 amps.

Speaker quality is a funny thing. I've got an EV something or another in one of my amps that is an overbuilt brick ****house of a speaker. For the rig(hotrodded 1965 Bassman) it is absolutely perfect. It has its own special kind of headroom and I've never made it fart out. I've for a great 2x12 cab loaded up with currently only one JBL ____. I've got its twin stashed away somewhere, but I like the way the air moves with that big hole in the cab. Probably my most responsive speakers in that my pick attack always seems to punch through no matter what kind of amp or guitar is behind it. I usually use an 18watt Marshall clone or a cheap 6v6 based head.

I'd have to say though that my all time favorite amp/speaker combo is in my 196? Alamo Challenger. It has been through 3 speakers not including the originals which were toast when I got it. I tried a carvin knockoff of a vintage30 and it was way to clean and didn't sound right. A cheap modern Fender 12" worked a bit better, but I wasn't really happy until I put a speaker from a late 60's Kimball organ in it.

That cheap old underpowered speaker is just right! The amp needs new caps, pots and tubes, badly. It pops and hisses too much to ever use live or recording, but man the thing *sounds* like its going to blow up. In a good way. Though, that's probably because it *is* going to blow up one of these days. Oh well, it will be easy to fix.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yep, solid body electric geetar doesn't have much "natural tone" and the speaker is the primary "resonant body" of the instrument, so the approach to some kind of idealized non resonant hifi speaker is the wrong direction. No telling what piece of crap speaker might sound good on geetar.

 

The jbl's, specially the old D series alnico monsters, were very clean and crazy loud for the power input, while the alnico magnets allowed some nonlinearity as compared to more powerful ceramic magnets in later comparable JBL's. That is, good ceramic magnets tend to be more powerful. There were plenty of cheap crappy ceramic magnets made. Those D JBL's were perfect surf geetar speakers. And steel guitar. And good clean bass guitar. And PA. But hopeless for getting guitar speaker distortion. Crank em up loud enough for speaker distortion and they would hurt you.

 

EV's were also IMO too clean and loud for guitar, and didn't quite have as pleasing tone as JBL's for guitar use, but good for bass and PA use. A great company. The EV's were also near impossible to distort in a guitar amp. Just painfully loud.

 

Most of the very early guitar speakers were tiny alnico magnets, small voice coils, very stiff cones. Bright, lots of overtones, distortion beginning at low power levels, but bright and twangy in the low power clean range.

 

The early celestian speakers as loaded in marshalls and such were also stiff coned cheap speakers. Celestion sells so many models nowadays, can't keep up with what they are all good for.

 

Back about 1979, a friend had a music man 2 12" a 100 watt tube amp loaded with high quality EV's. It was plenty loud for stage use, but the speakers wouldn't break up and it sounded on the verge of muddy (excessively high quality in reproducing bass and low mids). He loaded it with celestion greenbacks and it became a much better rock n roll amp, though he had to be careful not to blow out the low power speakers. But the surprise I had, was how chimey and twangy, crisp and clear were the greenbacks, when played quiet enough that they were non distorted.

 

Folks I'd played with before that time who used celestion loaded marshalls, were in distortion almost all the time, so hadn't realized til then how clear the celestions can sound at low power levels.

 

So anyway, Mr Weber passed away a few years ago, but his operation was custom made "vintage" speakers, ordered of features like a chinese menu. And the price wasn't that bad. Pick your speaker materials and stiffness, voice coil size, magnet type and size, dust cover type, and he would make what you wanted. Nowadays they are more in biz of making a preset selection, but have a wide

selection available.

 

The one I got for the little peavey tube amp was a copy of a 1950's cheepo speaker, tiny voice coil, tiny alnico magnet, stiff cone. At low volume it will twang yer teeth out, then at higher power it distorts great. Have to be careful with such goodies, only a 15 watt speaker. A fender super reverb loaded with four of those would kill.

 

http://tedweber.com/

[TrickyNicky]

Pretty much nailed both both the EV and the JBL. I will say though that either can be overdriven, but if you're attempting to with an amp over 20 watts or without a master volume, you're in for a bad time. The little 18 watt Marshall clone will shake the house at 1/2 max volume. From there it is all breakup, but it does sound great, if not a bit too punchy. The Bassman with the EV was long ago modded by being put into a 1x12 combo cab and the bass channel turned into something much more reminiscent of an overly bright Marshall. It also has a master volume so I can set it where I want it and play with it from there. I've only opened it up a handful of times as it is incredibly loud, but the EV held up well. Didn't fart out and by using the traditional volume controls at the front if the amp along with the master volume in the back as pre/post volume controls, I can keep it as clean as I want it about all the way up. The bass channel sounds great, anywhere from a little tube over saturation all the way up to a Ted Nugent worthy wall of cacophony.

I can think of better setups for a recording amp from a tone perspective, but for actually playing live, I can't picture anything better. Just throw an A/B box in front for channel selecting, set the bass channel to crazy so you can dial it back to crunchy on the guitar volume knob, set the clean channel to a nice breakup where you can clean it up from the guitar. Then, throw a reverb pedal in the back through the fx loop and I'm done.

Whoever originally built this thing knew exactly what he was doing. Sure, he "defaced a classic" but man did he build an awesome machine.


I'm going to start messing around with 10" speakers more. I think they will tighten up the 18watt nicely and I really like how spanky clean my old teachers super reverb was. That amp along with a Gibson Firebird was a winning combination. Way to loud to play at volume often though, but even the cleans sounded great. With a Les Paul you could do anything from country pickin to jazz and all the surf you can shake a stick at. Awesome amp to say the least.

I attribute electric tone as a combination of scale length, pickups, amp circuitry, and speaker first and foremost, though not in that or any order. I do believe in tone woods to an extent, but honestly I think most people blow it out of proportion.

I'm building what I hope will be a cool and unique guitar, but the going is very slow. I mostly can't motivate myself to fix a few issues with the finish and then re clear coat and polish it. :rolleyes: it will have a pickup combination I haven't seen before on a guitar it's style. Once it's done, maybe I'll make a video showing off some gear.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Super reverb is my all time favorite amp, though the twin reverb gets more vintage adoration from most folks.

 

In the late 60's and early 70's played wurlie electric pianer thru two black face supers (needed two for clean volume on piano). Stock CTS speakers. Played keybass thru mostly a bassman head with two 15's. JBL D130's in the bassman cab. I should be drawn and quartered, then shot and hanged for ever selling off those super reverbs.

 

I think the sweetness comes from audio interference patterns of the four close spaced speakers. The open back super can get a little too loud on stage, and doesn't project far into an audience, but that was only a problem back when people were too dumb to know how to put mics on guitars, bass, and drums.

 

A friend back then paid the big bucks to buy a super reverb factory loaded with JBL D 110's. He thought he was getting "the best" but it didn't do what he expected. Would have been great for jazz or country (or electric piano). With only forty watts and no master volume, it simply would not make decent distortion regardless how hard it was cranked, and it was exceedingly painful if one tried to distort it with gain alone. In addition, the sucker was HEAVY. One handed, could only tote it a few feet at a time, because it felt like it was pulling the wrist, elbow, and shoulder out of their sockets. (The 10" D110's weighed almost as much as the 15" D130 or D140, with the same huge magnet and the same 4" voice coils.)

Edited May 4, 2014 by Lester Weevils

[TrickyNicky]

Heavy doesn't begin to describe it. I'd honestly rather carry a 1/2 stack. At least most 4x12 cabs have decent handles and the head unit comes off. Whoever designed the handles on older amps to be like one you'd find on a lunch box or briefcase should be punched. For anything bigger than a Princeton or maybe vibrolux, casters are now a must IMO. Even if only in the form of a furniture dolly.

I've got a few and owned a few other big amps, but I've always seen the value in a 1x12 combo. When I was younger it was a 3-6 mile walk to my friends houses. That's a long way to carry anything bigger. In fact, my first *real* amp was a Carvin Nomad which is very similar in overall design to the Peavey Classic 50. It was tote able, but barely. Made for a long walk. If I could do it over again I would have gone for their much smaller, lighter one channel 16 watt. It also has a pentode/triad switch so you can play it in a 5 watt mode. That would have been a joy to carry around in comparison.

These days I still think little combos or little cabinet/head units are the way to go. Like I said, I think 10" are in my future.


Of course there was the ported 1x15 with midrange horn. That thing was an absolute beast. You had LOTS of headroom on the speaker, but once it reached its tipping point, it was another one of those "run for it, she's gonna blow!" type setups. Not great for lead work, but fantastic for rhythm.

You know I've kept most of my guitars, but amps and cabs I have been much more fickle with.

I would say that I'd like it all back, but I'm sure my apartment wouldn't hold it and 8/10s of it I couldn't use anyway.

[Randall53]

Well, thanks for all the input!!

 

After researching a lot of mentions above, I've been most impressed for my little 'ol hobby with the Yamaha THR10.  If it's anything like the You Tube videos I could whang away for years on my geetar with one of those.  I saw several on ebay for less than $200 used.  I like the idea of using headphones and not bothering anybody else.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

 

edited to say:  Playing like I do for my own enjoyment, I'll not be needed the Crate. Maybe I could sell it and help pay for the Yamaha.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Randall53

[Tempest455]

Utilize pretty much any amp in clean mode and use one of these. Trust me on this. A Fender Twin Reverb would be a great choice.

 

Gristle King:

 

http://gregkoch.com/wordpress/?page_id=27

[peejman]

You've already got this resolved, but I'll throw my :2cents:  in anyway...   I had an old Crate amp that sounded like ass at anything below ear bleeding volume.  Being a college dorm and/or apt dweller, that typically didn't go well.  My solution to that was to buy a distortion pedal... a Boss, I think.  Using that, I could get the distortion I liked   :rock:   but keep the volume at a reasonable level.

 

I've ran across a screaming deal on a Peavy 212 Classic Chorus year ago and ditched the Crate.  A friend of mine in college who was quite a player had one, and the sounds he could get out of it amazed me.  It's a boat anchor, but it rarely moves these days.  I'm a hack, but it sounds good to my untrained ear. 

[tartanphantom]

Guitar--->cable--->amp--->dime it.

 

Done. (pedals in the background ain't mine!)

 

Edited May 5, 2014 by tartanphantom

[Guest ddmoit]

A Peavey Classic Chorus is precisely what I got rid of and replaced with the Yamaha. It was indeed a good amp, but it was larger, heavier, and louder than I need now.

Edited May 5, 2014 by ddmoit

[Guest Lester Weevils]

In fact, my first *real* amp was a Carvin Nomad which is very similar in overall design to the Peavey Classic 50. It was tote able, but barely. Made for a long walk. If I could do it over again I would have gone for their much smaller, lighter one channel 16 watt. It also has a pentode/triad switch so you can play it in a 5 watt mode. That would have been a joy to carry around in comparison.

These days I still think little combos or little cabinet/head units are the way to go. Like I said, I think 10" are in my future.

[...]
You know I've kept most of my guitars, but amps and cabs I have been much more fickle with.

I would say that I'd like it all back, but I'm sure my apartment wouldn't hold it and 8/10s of it I couldn't use anyway.

 

That is why I've sold off so much stuff over the years, didn't have a warehouse to keep it all in. Main regrets though, should have kept the super reverbs, though the small EV PA that replaced it was better for keyboard amplification. And should have kept at least one leslie 147. Back when, leslie 147's were cheep, but big for loading in/out, and took up too much space in the house if not currently using one on gigs. So bought/sold many Leslie 147's over the years, but now new Leslie 147's cost thousands of dollars. Also had a couple of small combo leslies should have kept, a very early 16 12" single rotor meant to hook up to guitar cabinets, and IIRC an 820, solid state single rotor 1970's model that sounded purt kewl on some stuff.

 

And should have kept at least one Kustom roll'n'pleat bass amp. The old kustom amp heads were rather hissy, but there was something about the roll'n'pleated ported cab loaded with JBL's that for my tastes had the bestest bass sound ever. Kustoms were kinda like leslies, cheap and common into the 1970's, but hard to find one in good condition at a decent price nowadays. Never owned an old ampeg flip-top bass amp, but played keybass thru 15" and 18" flip-tops owned by other people quite a bit, and would love to have one of those too. Getting real obscure, there was also a guild thunderbass bass amp from the 1960's, one 15" and one 15" passive radiator, which was also a very satisfying bass amp.

 

Carvin made pretty good tube amps. Was your amp the one with a tweed cover that looked like woven cane? Or maybe the speaker grille was the only part made of woven cane. That was a fine sounding amp.

 

I've ran across a screaming deal on a Peavy 212 Classic Chorus year ago and ditched the Crate.  A friend of mine in college who was quite a player had one, and the sounds he could get out of it amazed me.  It's a boat anchor, but it rarely moves these days.  I'm a hack, but it sounds good to my untrained ear. 

 

Prices seem to have gone insane. A fender blues junior is about the same as my peavey Classic 20 tweed. About Y2K maybe, bought the Classic 20 less than $200 new. Nowadays GC sells the Classic 30 for about the same as a blues junior, $600+. Can't recall the price of Classic 30 and Classic 50 back when I got the 20. Just wanted the 20 for studio use, didn't need the extra bells and whistles.

 

But the Classic 20 and 30 share circuit characteristics with Vox AC15 and 30, either two or four EL84's, "quasi-linear biased". Runs kinda hot but sounds good. Classic 30 has reverb, two channels, and an extra pair of EL84's, compared to the 20, but $600+ ??? Geez!

[tnguy]

I got one of these. Handy if you want to be able to plug in some headphones and rock out.

 

 

http://www.voxamps.com/amplug/

[peejman]

A Peavey Classic Chorus is precisely what I got rid of and replaced with the Yamaha. It was indeed a good amp, but it was larger, heavier, and louder than I need now.

Large, heavy, and loud.... Yep!

[TrickyNicky]

Guitar--->cable--->amp--->dime it.
 
Done. (pedals in the background ain't mine!)
 

I'm right there with you except my reverb pedal. Went too long without it, now I've gotta have it. Had others too, I think the only other in I still have is a wah for when the mood strikes. Which is a lot less often than I thought it would be when I bought it.

Now the Alamo I play straight in with everything cranked. Although in my tinkering days it did have a two stage overdrive pedal built right in. It's true point to point with no turrets and an incredibly simple design, so there is lots of empty space in the chassis...



@Lester: yes it was their vintage series with the tweed covering and the brown grill. I took their nameplate off and I think it looked quite snazzy. It was a great amp, but it kept going through filter caps ridiculously fast. I eventually traded it for the service of an amp guru. I gave him the Carvin in peices (after it developed its last case of the vibrating farts(about as best I can describe what was happening) I ripped the chassis out so I could at least use the cab and speaker. Of course the original speaker was long gone at that point in favor of a celestian if I recall. Anyway I had him rebuild the 18watt as I'd managed to make a mess of it. Told him what to look out for with the Carvin and washed my hands of it altogether.

By this time I had the Bassman anyway, the search for an amp had about come to a close. Which of course has yet to deter me from buying weird stuff when it pops up cheap. I snagged a great little "portable" movie machine from the 30's a few years back. It was pretty cool as is, but really the little 1x12 suitcase looking cabinet was the real prize. Immaculate speaker, the thing must have been replaced at some point, though still long ago it seems.

I could go on. This has a been a great thread. I haven't thought of most of this stuff in what feels like forever.



Oh and Lester, if you want a rotating cab because you know nothing else quite sounds the same, but don't want to shell out $$$ for a Leslie, start searching Craigslist for old Kimball organs. Sometimes people just want them hauled off and they will yield you more than just crappy old speakers that sound great. The larger models had rotating foam horns. Worked really well when my friend ripped it out and mounted if into a milk crate. Now *that* I wish I still had.

[Randall53]

Damn....and all I want to do is play "my dog has fleas" with some distortion....... :rofl: :rofl:

[TrickyNicky]

Damn....and all I want to do is play "my dog has fleas" with some distortion....... :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, that's how it starts.

I'd bet a lot of us here at one time just wanted to defend ourselves and maybe punch a little paper once in a while. :cool: