Ruger LCR or S&W Airweight?

[mhl6493]

Well, then, everything I said above about the P3AT pretty much applies to the LCP as it is, in many ways, Ruger's clone of the P3AT.  Good choice for concealed carry, I think, and the 'pocket .380' craze of a couple years back resulted in quite a bit of new R&D going in to .380 defensive ammo.

 

Most people recommend running a couple hundred rounds through one of these small semiautos in order to break them in and get used to them.  You will certainly want to test whatever ammo you decide to carry to make sure it will function 100% (forgive me if I am telling you things you already know.)  Personally, I like Federal Hydrashoks.  They were the only premium SD ammo I could find when I first started testing out the P3AT and, as they have always functioned reliably (for me) I have stuck with them.  These are now considered 'older tech' but in pretty much every test I have seen, both formal and informal, they give good penetration and consistent (although not a great deal of) expansion.  Some folks also really like the Hornady Critical Defense .380 ammo.  Based on what I have seen, it doesn't give the most penetration and even Hornady doesn't generally claim that it will meet the F.B.I. '12 inch' requirement.  Then, again, we aren't the F.B.I. and - as Hornady says - civilian self defense needs can differ from LEO needs.  One advantage to the Critical Defense stuff is that it has a polymer 'tip' inside the hollowpoint cavity.  This likely helps in feeding, especially in small guns, and is also intended to help prevent clogging of the hollowpoint and aid in expansion. 

 

If you find that you have trouble holding/controlling the LCP, there are rubber, slip on grip sleeves made for them.  I have used such grip sleeves on my P3AT and find that they add just enough with and grippiness to improve shootability without negatively impacting the ability to pocket carry.  People who want to make the surface a little more 'grippy' without adding much bulk sometimes simply cut a section from a bicycle innertube and slide it over the grips.  I have also tried this and it does help keep the grips from slipping around in your hand.  Something else that I have on the main carry mag of my P3AT (as can be seen in the pic, above) is a 'pinky extension'.  In my hands, that little plastic extension really adds a lot of control.

 

Believe it or not, especially with one or two of the minor modifications I mentioned, these little guns can be fun to shoot.  In fact, Even though I like the 642 better for carry  I have to grudgingly admit that my P3AT is sometimes fun to shoot while, as I mentioned, my 642 is not.  The only problem might be finding enough ammo, right now, to really have fun with it.

 

Congrats on finding your (first) concealed carry gun.  Enjoy it and carry safe!

 

Lots of very good advice, JAB.  I'm new to firearms in general and carry guns in particular, so I'm always open to input for folks with a lot more experience than I have.  Thanks again!

[JAB]

Lots of very good advice, JAB.  I'm new to firearms in general and carry guns in particular, so I'm always open to input for folks with a lot more experience than I have.  Thanks again!

 

Well, a 'lot' more experience is a relative term but I - and most other folks on this forum - am glad to help if I can.

 

Also, I believe there is a subforum on at least one Ruger forum devoted to the LCP.  There are some LCP owners on TGO and, as I said, members here are usually happy to help but you might get a higher 'concentration' of specific info on there.  If you decide to check it out, though, don't let that stop you from hanging out here, too!

Edited May 9, 2014 by JAB

[mhl6493]

Just out of curiosity, how readily available is .380 self-defense ammo like the Federal Hydra Shok?  I did a quick internet search, and it looks like most places don't have it.  I bought a box of Blazers at the gun shop just to practice and get used to it, but I'd definitely like to get something else eventually for carry purposes.

[Patton]

You should be able to find some premium self defense .380 by hitting a few shops. The Hornady Critical Defense is ok, it is the only hollow points I have ever tried in my LCP and appears to be pretty easily found. Nothing against .380 but I wouldn't hesitate to carry reliable fmj until I found some hollow points. If you can't make a wide cavity in a threat you should be able to make a deep on with the fmj.

[JAB]

Just out of curiosity, how readily available is .380 self-defense ammo like the Federal Hydra Shok?  I did a quick internet search, and it looks like most places don't have it.  I bought a box of Blazers at the gun shop just to practice and get used to it, but I'd definitely like to get something else eventually for carry purposes.

 

I have seen it here and there, lately.  I sometimes see Hydrashoks or Winchester PDX1 at Walmart.  Unfortunately, you are getting into the game at a time when ammo, in general, isn't as readily available as it normally is - although much of the centerfire stuff is starting to show up again.  Don't get 'sticker shock' if you do find some - it usually comes in 20 or 25 round boxes at about $1 (or a little more) per round.

 

If I were you, I'd start out checking the Walmart there in Athens.  If you strike out there, try across the highway (in the K-Mart shopping center) at Dunham's.  I personally think their ammo prices were high even before the current 'shortage' but if they have it and you need it then that must be taken into consideration.  If there is still no joy and you don't mind a bit of a drive (not too awfully far from Athens), call Benton Shooter's Supply to see if they have any.  Their prices are also, generally, high IMO but they sometimes have stuff that I have trouble finding elsewhere.  There used to be a place called 'Guns America' over on Congress Parkway but as I don't seem to find myself in Athens during their business hours I have only been in there once I can't say much about them good or bad and I'm not sure if they are still in business or not.

 

Getting a little further away, you might check the two Academy stores down Chattanooga way (one at Hamilton Place and one in Hixson) as well as Sportsman's Warehouse down there if you start getting desparate.

 

Just FYI, here is the web address for Benton Shooter's Supply:

 

http://www.bentonshooters.com/

Edited May 9, 2014 by JAB

[cannoncocker]

sgammo.com has plenty of .380 in stock.

 

As far as recoil, you may try:

 

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/RUGER/LCP%20.380/cID1/mID52/dID422

 

Wolff offers extra power recoil springs to tame your LCP a tad.  You can even buy a calibration spring pack.

 

For for a wealth of LCP info go here:

 

http://rugerpistolforums.com/forums/general-lcp-discussion/

 

Have fun!

[mhl6493]

sgammo.com has plenty of .380 in stock.

 

As far as recoil, you may try:

 

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/RUGER/LCP%20.380/cID1/mID52/dID422

 

Wolff offers extra power recoil springs to tame your LCP a tad.  You can even buy a calibration spring pack.

 

For for a wealth of LCP info go here:

 

http://rugerpistolforums.com/forums/general-lcp-discussion/

 

Have fun!

 

Very nice!  Thanks!

[DaveTN]

Just out of curiosity, how readily available is .380 self-defense ammo like the Federal Hydra Shok?  I did a quick internet search, and it looks like most places don't have it.  I bought a box of Blazers at the gun shop just to practice and get used to it, but I'd definitely like to get something else eventually for carry purposes.

In my opinion Federal Hydra Shok is the best SD ammo there is and has been for 30 years, but I wouldn’t carry it in a .380.
I would stick will ball ammo, at least you will get some penetration.

[molonlabetn]

In my opinion Federal Hydra Shok is the best SD ammo there is and has been for 30 years, but I wouldn’t carry it in a .380.
I would stick will ball ammo, at least you will get some penetration.

Yes.

Here is a good load you can carry and practice with: http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_340&product_id=236

100gr fmj with flash suppressed powder at ~1000 fps... That'll reach vitals. Most .380 hollow points won't.

I got to try some of this when it came out... Its stout and feeds reliably. I would carry this in a .380 if I had one. Edited May 10, 2014 by molonlabetn

[mnoirot64]

[quote name="mhl6493" post="1145526" timestamp="1399136844"]I appreciate all the input on my previous question about the Ruger and M&P 22. I've pretty much decided that, money being as tight as it is, I can't justify the 22 right now. I first need to get my carry gun, then maybe down the line spring for the 22. Which leads to my next question. Since I kind of have a thing for revolvers, I'm leaning toward either the Ruger LCR or the Smith and Wesson Airweight, both in .38 rather than the .357 versions. +P will probably be the strongest thing I want to shoot out of something this light. It will most likely either be carried in my pocket or on my ankle -- for me, those seem to be the best options. I've held both at a lgs, and I like and dislike different aspects of each. I haven't been able to actually shoot either one, which I really want to do before I make my final decision. That being said, I'm looking for opinions on each from those who own one or the other. What has your experience been? Which do you think would work better for pocket and/or ankle carry? Overall, which would you recommend? Thanks again for putting up with all my newbie questions. I'm glad to have a forum of knowledgeable folks that I can rely on. [/quote] I'm a RSO here in central Tennessee. I had a gentleman who let me shoot his S&W Airweight 357 with full house 357 mag factory ammo. That little pistol kicked harder than my S&W 629 44 mag with a 2 5/8 inch barrel. I then shot it with 38 special +P factory ammo. It was tolerable, but not something I would shoot often. I shot a total of three or four rounds through it, thanking him and handing it back. Ouch! Michael Noirot Clarksville, Tennessee Life Member National Rifle Association Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[charlessummers]

I had both, and still have the S&W 642 if that tells you anything. It fits better in the pocket and the grips are smoother and less sticky than the Rugers grip. Hands down winner for me with the S&W. Having said that... as you can see by my avatar that I love my Rugers... I just couldn't like the LCR as much as I tried to. My 642 was the alloy version and it's an incredible firearm. I carried it exclusively until my mother decided she needed a pistol. I gave her one of my favorites!

[JAB]

In my opinion Federal Hydra Shok is the best SD ammo there is and has been for 30 years, but I wouldn’t carry it in a .380.
I would stick will ball ammo, at least you will get some penetration.

 

Everyone has to make their own choices but you have actually hit on the big reason, behind reliability and consistent functioning, that I stick with Hydrashok.  I am not comfortable using FMJ for self defense in any caliber larger than .32acp (if I had a .32 I'd likely carry Fiocchi FMJ in it.)  Every test I have ever seen indicates that Hydrashok from a .380 actually does expand - but usually only a little.  The amount of expansion seems pretty consistent across the tests, though.  The other side is that, probably due to the minimal expansion, HS in .380 (again, based on the tests I have found) consistently gives good penetration - even from P3AT and LCP sized guns.  By 'good' penetration I mean right around the F.B.I. minimum, between 11.5 and 13 inches.  I figure that some expansion - even a little - coupled with adequate penetration can only be a good thing.  Here are links to a few of the tests that illustrate what I mean.

 

From Brassfetcher.com

 

Bare 10% gel:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP/380%20ACP%2010%25%20gelatin%20results.pdf

 

Heavy clothing over 10% gel:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP/380%20ACP%20Heavy%20Clothing.pdf

 

 

This fellah apparently did a series of tests comparing various .380 SD ammo from different manufacturers to that ammo's 9mm counterpart from a similarly sized gun.  His main purpose was to see if it was 'worth it' to go with a 9mm in such a small gun but I think the .380 results are useful in and of themselves.  Be aware that he said he used a Sim Test block that was 'closely calibrated' to ballistics gelatin so this isn't technically a 'ballistics gel' test. However, his results do closely match those that Brassfetcher got from actual ballistics gel.  He says that the test was through a couple of layers of denim into his Sim Test block.

 

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/04/another-realistic-380-acp-vs-9mm-test.html

 

Anyhow, the results from those, two sources pretty closely match with results of other ballistics gel and wetpack tests that I have seen.

Edited May 12, 2014 by JAB

[JAB]

Oh, and notice in the Brassfetcher tests that the only FMJ tested pretty much overpenetrated - 20 inches in bare gelating and 18.4 through heavy clothing and into gelatin.  Those results also match with other tests I have seen.  That is why I would not be comfortable carrying FMJ in a .380.

 

A fellow going by the handle of GoldenLoki did a test of several .380 rounds, too.  He has since shut down his site but thankfully his results are still archived, somewhere.  His results showed that there are actually a few .380 hollowpoints that will expand and still meet or exceed the F.B.I. penetration requirement.  His tests also indicated that FMJ could be prone to over penetration (he got around 16 inches with the ones he tested.)  All of his .380 tests were from a P3AT.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20121007184825/http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

 

A .380 is not a .45, a .357, a .38 or a 9mm Luger.  That said, I really don't understand (given the results of tests such as the ones I have posted) why so many still look at the .380 with good, modern ammo as such a marginal round.  I know that Dave TN is a former police officer and that he has likely seen real life shootings with various calibers which have helped him form a real world opinion and I respect that.  That said, I would respectfully suggest that - due to the recent .380 craze and the ammo companies taking a fresh look at the .380 as a result - ammo development in the .380 may have advanced significantly since his time in the field.

 

The bullet diameter is considered a 9mm (it is called 9mm Kurz or 9mm short in other parts of the world..)  If it can expand and penetrate to 12 inches with the right ammo then what is so 'marginal' about it?  I do not mean that as a rhetorical question - I am far from an expert on the subject and really want to know why some folks consider a round that, with the right hp ammo, can expand and meet the F.B.I. penetration requirement to be 'marginal'. 

 

The only thing 'marginal' I can think of is that ammo selection is very important in .380 - especially a small .380.  Much more important than in larger or 'heavier' calibers.  In more powerful handguns, just about any old hollowpoints might work (not necessarily but hopefully you get the point) but in .380 that is not the case - some work well and some do not.  You have to find one that works well in ballistics testing and functions well in your gun.

Edited May 13, 2014 by JAB