Minn. man convicted of murder in home invasion

[Erik88]

In that limited circumstance, I would imagine that it would be a crime (under TN law). The issue is that there has to be a fear of great bodily injury or death. Tennessee provides for a presumption of that fear in the home, but an actual lack of that fear makes a shooting criminal. It is a state of mind issue. If your are sitting and waiting for them, I would expect that fear not to be there. Obviously, that has to be proven in court, but as a factual matter, without the fear it is criminal.

 

Well, I don't imagine this guy knew the exact hour or time these kids were going to show up. I'm not going to speculate his mental state. I see your point though.

 

I would imagine I'd still be scared if someone was breaking into my home even if I suspected they might show up.

[JAB]

Well, I don't imagine this guy knew the exact hour or time these kids were going to show up. I'm not going to speculate his mental state. I see your point though.

 

I would imagine I'd still be scared if someone was breaking into my home even if I suspected they might show up.

 

How would anyone know the homeowner were 'waiting for them' unless the homeowner either

 

a.  told someone beforehand that he/she planned to do so or

b.  confessed after the fact that he/she had been doing so?

 

As far as parking his truck in a different place, I know of no law against doing so as long as it isn't parked illegally.  I also know of no law requiring someone to vacate their own home if they suspect a burglar/home invader might be coming by.  To my mind, the bottom line is the homeowner is home and the intruders break in leading to an assumption of justifiable use of lethal force.

 

Setting up a comfy chair and a tape recorder is going too far and looks like premeditation.  Delivering a coup de grace once the intruder is down looks like murder.  Simply not going out of one's way to be gone when intruders break in or to make sure the intruders know when one is home, however, wouldn't be enough to get me to agree to a 'guilty' verdict if I were on the jury.

Edited May 2, 2014 by JAB

[Oh Shoot]

How would anyone know the homeowner were 'waiting for them' unless the homeowner either

 

a.  told someone beforehand that he/she planned to do so or

b.  confessed after the fact that he/she had been doing so?

 

As far as parking his truck in a different place, I know of no law against doing so as long as it isn't parked illegally.  I also know of no law requiring someone to vacate their own home if they suspect a burglar/home invader might be coming by.  To my mind, the bottom line is the homeowner is home and the intruders break in leading to an assumption of justifiable use of lethal force.

 

Setting up a comfy chair and a tape recorder is going too far and looks like premeditation.  Delivering a coup de grace once the intruder is down looks like murder.  Simply not going out of one's way to be gone when intruders break in or to make sure the intruders know when one is home, however, wouldn't be enough to get me to agree to a 'guilty' verdict if I were on the jury.

 

Announcing the coup de grace shot on tape alone was unfortunately for him the clear "smoking gun", pardon the pun. Maybe even in Texas.

 

- OS

Edited May 2, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[JAB]

Announcing the coup de grace shot on tape alone was unfortunately for him the clear "smoking gun", pardon the pun. Maybe even in Texas.

 

- OS

 

Oh, I would say that you are almost certainly right.  My post was more intended to respond to Erik88's question:

 

Question- let's say he didn't "execute" them but he did wait in his house for them knowing they would arrive. Is that still a crime?

[dralarms]

Nope, what he did wrong was excessive force since he basically went past the "stop the threat" requirement. I sit here all the time with the intention of stopping someone from coming in my house, am I expecting them? No. But you can cool believe one thing, if they show up here intending on doing my family harm (which I assume if they come in my house if I'm home) it will not end well. They might live but only if they stop after the first shot (and I mean stop trying to come in, not stop moving).

[TMF]

Best way not to get shot? Don't break into people's homes. He committed a crime by dispatching these two POS's. Sentence should be time served. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hi Point Hooligan]

After reading the article it seems like he was hunting with a baited field. :rofl:

[RobertNashville]

The really weird thing is that it sounds like - just by altering a few of the actions he took - this could have been a legal shooting that would probably not have ended with the home owner even being prosecuted....

Isn't it always one or two key details (or even how we handle ourselves after a shooting) that can turn a legitimate self-defense homicide into a homicide that garners the shooter a murder charge?

 

I was fortunate to attend the free seminar in December (2012) given by Mr. Cain (Cain Law Firm) and I then took Massad Ayoob's two-day class on rules of engagement last year. One of the things I loved about both (and especially Massad's given he had two days) was all the actual examples of cases which really brought home the truth of how quickly and how badly a good SD shooting can go based on one or two little details.  This case seemed pretty much a slam dunk as a murder to me but yeah...change one or two details and it could certainly have gone the other way.

[DaveTN]

Dateline did an in-depth story on this that was aired last night. (12 minutes on Elm Street) It was pretty good, they didn't seem to take sides or try to turn it into a gun issue.

This guy obviously had mental issues. But between his statement about a “good clean finishing shot” , waiting 24 hours, and the audio recordings he didn’t have a chance in court.

It’s an example of what we have discussed here many times; you can have all the “castle doctrine” laws you want, but you can’t execute a person that is not a threat. That’s what the evidence showed he did.

I don’t feel sorry for those two kids. They were in the act of committing a forcible felony. It’s too bad that investigators found that recorder. Sorry if that sounds harsh but he could have laid in wait all he wanted, if no one had burglarized his home it would have been a non-issue.

If you don’t have on-demand, I think this is a link for on-line.
http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/full-episode-12-minutes-elm-street-n107981

[TMF]

I watched it last night after DVRing it. Yeah, he committed murder. Wouldn't call it first or second degree though. A crime of passion in my opinion. Don't care that he did it though. What made me angry was the DA describing what he did as sitting in a tree stand deer hunting. He was in his own house and they broke in. It ain't like he invited them over and shot them as they came through the door. Oh, and screw those two little hoodlums. They deserved to be shot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk