Knox County Sherriffs Deputy chokes out handcuffed suspect.

[10-Ring]

I know there are two sides to every story but I think the pictures pretty much sum it up.  This is absolutely disgusting.  All three of these "LEOs" need to be in the unemployment line in the morning.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614386/Tennessee-police-photographed-choking-unresisting-college-student-passes-out.html

[R_Bert]

You must follow Jamie Satterfield, the KNS journalist. 

 

I could not even bring myself to post this one.

[10-Ring]

Nope actually saw it on Facebook.  I know there are two sides to every story.  I hope I'm wrong I just can't see how this was legitimate police action.

[R_Bert]

Nope actually saw it on Facebook.  I know there are two sides to every story.  I hope I'm wrong I just can't see how this was legitimate police action.

Jamie's FB post is where I saw it. 

[TripleDigitRide]

I'd much rather see video footage before opining on this one. It's difficult to tell a whole lot based on a few still photographs.

[runco]

Saw this earlier today, but dare not post it here.  To much housekeeping or threat of housekeeping for cop bashing or being just mean.  I agree still photographs are always not clear even though they appear to be clear.

[R_Bert]

Saw this earlier today, but dare not post it here.  To much housekeeping or threat of housekeeping for cop bashing or being just mean.  I agree still photographs are always not clear even though they appear to be clear.

and, I always like to see more than one media outlet report on it. Preferably on both sides of political spectrum.

Edited April 27, 2014 by R_Bert

[runco]

and, I always like to see more than one media outlet report on it. Preferably on both sides of political spectrum.

Channel 10 reported it, and then I went to their web site to see the pictures for myself.

[Sam1]

yeah not sure on the pictures part, but it doesn't look like he's putting up too much of a fight if that's what the claims are, you can see one of the cops behind him looking like nothing is going on.  Looks like a pissed off cop to me choking someone out and that's about it.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ok, if you look at the sequence of photos you will notice the suspects hands are behind his back as he is being handcuffed. Then before he is handcuffed you notice he is pulling his hands away from the officer trying to handcuff him. He may not have started resisting but at some point he made a conscience effort to pull his hands away from the officer doing the handcuffing and that is resisting. 

 

In photo three the suspect is leaning forward towards the officer and from personal experience that is what someone does when they are getting ready to spit or are spitting on you. What is the best way to prevent someone from spitting? Cut off their airway. 

 

If all that the suspect was doing was running his mouth then the officers are wrong and should be held accountable but if the suspect is attempting to resist arrest, spitting or threatening to spit then I see no problem with what the officer did. Being choked out, properly, is a lot less damaging to the body than being taken to the ground. We have choked out people who were in handcuffs, leg irons and belly chains before because it was less damaging than some of the alternatives.

 

 

 

[R_Bert]

Interesting.  Just hearing after 24 hours.  This should have been all over the news cycle today

 

"Dozens of law enforcement personnel were called in to bust a massive party with hundreds of people in attendance in the Fort Sanders area late Saturday night, according to the Knoxville Police Department."

 

[10-Ring]

Ok, if you look at the sequence of photos you will notice the suspects hands are behind his back as he is being handcuffed. Then before he is handcuffed you notice he is pulling his hands away from the officer trying to handcuff him. He may not have started resisting but at some point he made a conscience effort to pull his hands away from the officer doing the handcuffing and that is resisting. 

 

In photo three the suspect is leaning forward towards the officer and from personal experience that is what someone does when they are getting ready to spit or are spitting on you. What is the best way to prevent someone from spitting? Cut off their airway. 

 

If all that the suspect was doing was running his mouth then the officers are wrong and should be held accountable but if the suspect is attempting to resist arrest, spitting or threatening to spit then I see no problem with what the officer did. Being choked out, properly, is a lot less damaging to the body than being taken to the ground. We have choked out people who were in handcuffs, leg irons and belly chains before because it was less damaging than some of the alternatives.

 

Very good observations.  Was hoping someone would chime in with an educated opinion.  I really hope you are right and the officers actions were justified.

[TNMTBik3r]

Yeah there could be another side, but why the hell would an officer choke out someone in custody?
If he was resisting isn't a baton, taser or pepper spray the proper response? Sure seems like brutality...

[TNMTBik3r]

Just saw Dolomite's post...did not know that was an approved method but if the suspect was spitting then yeah it kind of makes sense.

[TripleDigitRide]

Yeah there could be another side, but why the hell would an officer choke out someone in custody?
If he was resisting isn't a baton, taser or pepper spray the proper response? Sure seems like brutality...

I have no idea what's acceptable protocol in that situation.

 

What about the Franklin County deputy that was in the news this morning? I know his brother very well. The deputy was being stabbed/slashed with a knife, and he decided to use hand to hand combat, rather than simply shooting the bad guy. The deputy was much nicer than I would have been.  

[battleop]

We are certainly only seeing one side to this story.  That being said I'm going to go out on a limb and say the whole thing could have been avoided.  I bet the cops didn't just pick some random innocent schmuck when they probably had a plethora of suspects with easy convictions.  I bet he was either a public drunk or real mouthy with the cops.

[bersaguy]

i don't have any idea what the rules are for Knox County Sheriff Office or the Knox city Police rules and regulations are but I do know that in the Sumner County Sheriffs Office and Gallatin City Police are ordered to never put their hands on the throat of anyone either in custody or in the process of being arrested. Any and all persons throats are totally off limits. If you are caught with your hands on a persons throat while under arrest or in process of being arrested you can expect a long unpaid vacation and maybe even dismissed or fired. I will see if I can find the story about the reason for this regulation being put in place. It''s been about 7 or 8 years ago but it had to do with the choking death of a female that was being placed under arrest and an officer applied a strangle hold on her and she died after being placed in back seat of squad car. The autopsy conclusion was death by strangulation. Her family sued and won a mega amount of money from the City of Hendersonville in Sumner county where the arrest took place and Sumner County because a sheriffs car was on the scene  and  didn't even assist. Following that decision by the court the Gallatin City Police adapted the policy as well as Sumner County Sheriff and Hendersonville P.D. Don't know if it has changed any but last I heard it was still in effect.

[bersaguy]

I have no idea what's acceptable protocol in that situation.

 

What about the Franklin County deputy that was in the news this morning? I know his brother very well. The deputy was being stabbed/slashed with a knife, and he decided to use hand to hand combat, rather than simply shooting the bad guy. The deputy was much nicer than I would have been.  

Yep, Deputy was a lot nicer than I would have been if I have a guy with a knife trying to cut me and I have a gun on my hip that bad guy will be needing an ambulance or a coroner from gun shot wounds...........jmho

[Oh Shoot]

....are but I do know that in the Sumner County Sheriffs Office and Gallatin City Police are ordered to never put their hands on the throat of anyone either in custody or in the process of being arrested.

 

Would assume that messing with throat enters realm of deadly force. I know you see "choke holds" or used to, but I can't hardly believe they are on anyone's "approved" force continuum for mere restraint or perhaps even in incapacitation unless officer were in real danger?

 

Reasoning being, could be lethal not just from strangulation itself but possibility of damaged larynx. Anything above collarbone is also no go area for anything but possible lethal hits with baton too in all the charts I've seen.

 

Could certainly be wrong, of course.

 

- OS

Edited April 28, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[jacob]

choke holds involving using the arms to block blood flow in the neck are safe (ie rear naked choke), although you have to take care to release the hold after consciousness is lost or brain damage will occur...that hold pictured would definitely have a high probability of causing trauma to the throat...Although it would piss most people off, having someone spit in your face shouldn't warrant a pass of choking them with your hands..

[bersaguy]

Would assume that messing with throat enters realm of deadly force. I know you see "choke holds" or used to, but I can't hardly believe they are on anyone's "approved" force continuum for mere restraint or even incapacitation? 

 

Reasoning being, could be lethal not just from strangulation itself but possibility of damaged larynx. Anything above collarbone is also no go area for anything but possible lethal hits with baton too in all the charts I've seen.

 

- OS

Yep OS. It is a real issue around here if a baton is used above the upper chest. Arms, legs body torso, go for it!! Neck up off limits under any conditions. A police officer around here has more authority to use their gun than their batons in a the case of  self defense or lethal force.   They are even looking at removing tazers from the police around here because their have been several deaths from them in Nashville. I think around here you can only hit them with tazer two times before it is declared excessive force.

[runco]

That was quick!  WBIR is reporting the officer is fired:

 

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/downtown-ut/2014/04/27/kcso-investigating-photos-after-massive-ut-party-bust/8307013/

[Oh Shoot]

Just can't have a good street party in Fort Sanders anymore like the old days, I guess.

 

60 cops involved, wow. And 800 kids? Must admit, that's something. 'Course we didn't have the Phone Mob capability back then. :)

 

- OS

Edited April 28, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[TripleDigitRide]

That was quick!  WBIR is reporting the officer is fired:

 

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/downtown-ut/2014/04/27/kcso-investigating-photos-after-massive-ut-party-bust/8307013/

They didn't waste any time, that's for sure. What a way to end his 22 year career with the KCSO.

[Oh Shoot]

They didn't waste any time, that's for sure. What a way to end his 22 year career with the KCSO.

 

Surely won't do anything but help JJ in election a bit though.

 

- OS