Shotgun for Home Defense

[DrCoxx122]

At the corrections academy I qualified with the Remington 870.  I fell in love with it.  I want one BAD.  Here's the problem: I'd want it for home defense but I want something that both my me and my wife can use.  I'm a big guy, I can take a lot of recoil but my wife isn't a fan.  Is there a different shotgun or a variant of the 870 with more manageable recoil?  I want to stay with a pump (fewer involuntarily moving parts the less room for something to go wrong) and I'd like to stay as close to 12 gauge as possible.

[nightrunner]

Id suggest trying the Blackhawk recoil reducing stock. After that maybe step down to 20 ga if necessary.

[nightrunner]

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SpecOps-Gen-II-Adjustable-Shotgun-Stock,1808,165.htm

[peejman]

Id suggest trying the Blackhawk recoil reducing stock. After that maybe step down to 20 ga if necessary.

 

 

This.  Or just pick a light load.  Given that home defense use will likely be at very close range, those 3.5" magnum shells aren't really necessary.  Also consider that in the very unfortunate event she actually has to use it in self defense, recoil won't exist. 

[dcloudy777]

First, don't be fooled by the wretched old Mini-14s at the Corrections Academy... a good rifle is better than any shotgun.

 

Now that that's out of the way, shotguns are good to have around too.  The 870 is an excellent choice, but the Mossberg 590 and Benelli Nova are also great guns.

 

As for recoil and the wife... load selection is key.  Most of the major companies make reduced recoil buckshot loads.  I really like the Fiocchi 00 load.

 

Find the absolute shortest stock you can find, like a youth model or something.  Pretty much every shotgun ever made has "too long" of a stock for defensive use.  Ideally you can find a stock that's too short for you, and then add a Simms Limbsaver recoil pad.

[peejman]

First, don't be fooled by the wretched old Mini-14s at the Corrections Academy... a good rifle is better than any shotgun.

 

Now that that's out of the way, shotguns are good to have around too.  The 870 is an excellent choice, but the Mossberg 590 and Benelli Nova are also great guns.

 

As for recoil and the wife... load selection is key.  Most of the major companies make reduced recoil buckshot loads.  I really like the Fiocchi 00 load.

 

Find the absolute shortest stock you can find, like a youth model or something.  Pretty much every shotgun ever made has "too long" of a stock for defensive use.  Ideally you can find a stock that's too short for you, and then add a Simms Limbsaver recoil pad.

 

 

True. 

 

Given the "pattern" a shotgun produces at typical home defense range, it's functionally a rifle, albeit one with a very large projectile. 

 

Depends on the size of your wife, but a youth stock with a recoil pad is a good suggestion. 

[Guest Lowbuster]

This.  Or just pick a light load.  Given that home defense use will likely be at very close range, those 3.5" magnum shells aren't really necessary.  Also consider that in the very unfortunate event she actually has to use it in self defense, recoil won't exist.

This
I have spine, neck and joint diseases, and the lighter loads works for me.I use a double barrell bounty Hunter and can shoot any loads with it. For home defense I would use both barrels, drop and use my pistol from there. I also like them due to other family members in the house and the possibility of shooting them by over penetration.

[Trekbike]

I'll throw in my two cents based on my personal experience on the matter.  While I agree that recoil management is something you need to think about, it might not be as big an issue as the length of pull unless your wife has abnormally long arms for a female.   In my case a couple of years ago I bought an 870 18.5" 12 gauge.   All was right with the world until I had her try to cycle the action.  She didn't have enough reach to cycle it unless she dropped it off her shoulder.   I quickly bought one of the adjustable Knoxx (Blackhawk) stock mentioned above but not the recoil reducer model since she doesn't have a problem with the recoil.  As peejman said, recoil is not noticed as much in an emergency.   

 

I wanted to go the adjustable route rather than the youth stock option since it can make both of us happy whereas the youth would only make her happy.  

 

As was also mentioned, consider a 20 gauge.   It's not as macho but can get the job done with much less recoil and weight.  Some females might find it tough to shoulder a 12 gauge 18.5" barrel for any period of time.  I listened to a couple of ProArms podcasts from Massad Ayoob a while back on HD shotguns after I had bought mine.  He felt  a 20 gauge was much better suited for HD if there was any chance that a female was going to need to use it.   He said in their tests at 7 yards the 20 gauge gave them 74% of the lead on target at 55% of the recoil compared to a 12 gauge.  Just something to think about.  

[dcloudy777]

The biggest problem with the 20 gauge is the pitiful buckshot selection.  You're pretty much limited to #3Buck, which is marginal at best. 

 

You can get a #2Buck load, but as best I can tell you have to get a 3" shell, which defeats the "low-recoil" purpose. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by dcloudy777

[JWKilgore]

The biggest problem with the 20 gauge is the pitiful buckshot selection.  You're pretty much limited to #3Buck, which is marginal at best. 

 

For military and police purposes I agree that #3B is less than ideal. But at inside-the-home distances I say that #3B is more than adequate. And if you live in an area with close neighbors I'd suggest that #3B be the maximum size you use.

[dcloudy777]

For military and police purposes I agree that #3B is less than ideal. But at inside-the-home distances I say that #3B is more than adequate. And if you live in an area with close neighbors I'd suggest that #3B be the maximum size you use.

 

I have to disagree with you there.  If I get to decide the rules before I have a gunfight, sure, I'll take whatever kind of ammo I can find... but life doesn't work that way.  #1B or larger, if I'm being forces to use a shotgun for defensive purposes. 

 

And the #3 and #4 buckshot goes through just as much drywall as the larger shot anyway, so basically you give up terminal performance for nothing. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by dcloudy777

[molonlabetn]

^ What Dan said.

Just as a further illustration... If you were going hunting for a 150-250lb predator, wouldn't you want the gnarliest load you could muster? For me that's 3" 000 Buck... And at room distances, that won't penetrate appreciably more through building materials than an ounce of compressed fairy dust at the same velocity, but it will put bigger holes in a badguy. If you want reduced penetration in walls, go with .223

Even bird shot goes through multiple walls.

[Grayfox54]

Fiocchi offers reduced recoil shells in 2 3/4"  00 buck. I've found these to be excellent in my Mossberg 590 and easy on my bum shoulders. Might be just what your looking for. 

[molonlabetn]

Fiocchi offers reduced recoil shells in 2 3/4" 00 buck. I've found these to be excellent in my Mossberg 590 and easy on my bum shoulders. Might be just what your looking for.

My 590A1 liked 8 pellet 00 Buck best, as well... patterned great.

[K191145]

For military and police purposes I agree that #3B is less than ideal. But at inside-the-home distances I say that #3B is more than adequate. And if you live in an area with close neighbors I'd suggest that #3B be the maximum size you use.

At ranges inside the home I would say the average field load would be pretty leathal. You can also take low recoil skeet loads, dig out a small hole in the crimp and fill it with super glue. If I had a 20ga I would load it with slugs but they can have a snappy recoil.

EDIT:
Iksnay on the Gluenay, here's a better solution. Wax slugs. I'm going to have to try that on some low recoil target loads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWWqXVbAfA Edited April 25, 2014 by K191145

[K191145]

I read you can't get enough 00 buck in a 20ga to be a very effective, I wonder how #1 or #2 reloaded in a target 20ga shell would work. Of course i'm guessing it would be better to have some actual re-loading equipment for that.

[KKing]

[quote name="wablackhawks" post="1142167" timestamp="1398310745"]I want to stay with a pump (fewer involuntarily moving parts the less room for something to go wrong) and I'd like to stay as close to 12 gauge as possible.[/quote]I'm sorry, but your thinking is flawed. There is more for YOU to do under stress, therefore there are MORE chances of something to go wrong. You believe that under stress you'll have the composure to make sure you don't short stroke that action? Or better yet, that your wife will? I'm not trying to talk down to you at all, but if that statement is your premise for choosing a home defense weapon, it's flawed. Shotguns can be great weapons, but realize what you're getting into

^ What Dan said.Just as a further illustration... If you were going hunting for a 150-250lb predator, wouldn't you want the gnarliest load you could muster? For me that's 3" 000 Buck... And at room distances, that won't penetrate appreciably more through building materials than an ounce of compressed fairy dust at the same velocity, but it will put bigger holes in a badguy. If you want reduced penetration in walls, go with .223Even bird shot goes through multiple walls.

One of the better posts in this thread IMO. If you need to consider penetration (close neighbors, or whatever) look into using an AR for home defense. Shotgun rounds like those being discussed here will absolutely take care of the bad guy, and 10 layers or whatever is on the other side of him. To me, the AR is more easily maneuvered, less steps required to get bullet to bad guy, multiple rounds on tap, and a .223 round will not over penetrate as much as most 9mm loads in testing I've seen Edited April 25, 2014 by KKing

[K191145]

I think i'll re-consider the wax slug idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnTAr5jqJQI

[dcloudy777]

Doing a bit more internet scouring.  Apparently Rio does make a 20 gauge 9-pellet #1Buck shell, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to find.

[JWKilgore]

I have to disagree with you there.  If I get to decide the rules before I have a gunfight, sure, I'll take whatever kind of ammo I can find... but life doesn't work that way.  #1B or larger, if I'm being forces to use a shotgun for defensive purposes. 

 

And the #3 and #4 buckshot goes through just as much drywall as the larger shot anyway, so basically you give up terminal performance for nothing. 

So we disagree. My dad and brother both load 00B in their shotguns, but they live on 80 acres with no neighbors. I live in a subdivision with close neighbors, and I like most of them.

 

Based on testing #4 still more than meets the FBI minimum of 12" of penetration (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/). But the smaller size will more rapidly lose energy as it travels farther through the air and penetrates walls. Maybe the penetration is 3 interior walls vs. 4, but still it's one less wall.

 

This actually sounds like an argument over what's the least powerful yet still adequate handgun round. Some say a .22LR is adequate, while others won't carry anything less than a full-power 10mm or .45ACP. Personally, I feel perfectly comfortable with my sub-compact 9mm or even my 5-shot .38Spc.

 

 

Just as a further illustration... If you were going hunting for a 150-250lb predator, wouldn't you want the gnarliest load you could muster? For me that's 3" 000 Buck... And at room distances, that won't penetrate appreciably more through building materials than an ounce of compressed fairy dust at the same velocity, but it will put bigger holes in a badguy. If you want reduced penetration in walls, go with .223

If I were going on an outdoor hunt of a predator that size I would use a high-power fast-repeating rifle. The problem with that analogy is that on a predator hunt you usually don't have to worry about things like neighbors and kids. In the real world, at least in MY world, neighbors and kids exist, and I don't want the guilt that would go with killing either. Therefore I pick the minimum shot size that provides adequate killing penetration. No, this doesn't eliminate every possible situation where the shot could over-penetrate and hit an innocent. But it gives the best possible chance at eliminating collateral damage while still adequately taking care of the bad guy.

 

 

Doing a bit more internet scouring.  Apparently Rio does make a 20 gauge 9-pellet #1Buck shell, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to find.

I had no idea this existed... thanks for the heads-up! I don't see how they fit a 3x3 stack of 0.30" #1 shot inside a 20-ga shell, but there is a long history of incorrectly labeled shot sizes in commercial shells. Maybe it's closer to #1.5B.

25rd box for $15: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/25rds-20-gauge-rio-royal-9-pellet-1-buckshot-ammo

250rd case for $125: http://www.sgammo.com/product/rio/250-round-case-20-gauge-rio-9-pellet-buck-shot-ammo-rb209

Edited April 25, 2014 by JWKilgore

[molonlabetn]

Regardless the reasoning, at shotgun velocities and load mass, relying on a slight difference in pellet size to not do unintended harm through a wall simply compromises stopping power on the intended target.

I'd prefer to know my backstop and what is beyond it, and ensure a positive stop.

[K191145]

Regardless the reasoning, at shotgun velocities and load mass, relying on a slight difference in pellet size to not do unintended harm through a wall simply compromises stopping power on the intended target.

I'd prefer to know my backstop and what is beyond it, and ensure a positive stop.

 

Move into a brick house.  :)

[molonlabetn]

Move into a brick house. :)

That's exactly what I did :-)

[dcloudy777]

 I don't see how they fit a 3x3 stack of 0.30" #1 shot inside a 20-ga shell, but there is a long history of incorrectly labeled shot sizes in commercial shells. Maybe it's closer to #1.5B.

 

Probably more likely they're fudging the shell length.  That's pretty common with shotgun shells, and the length measurement is based on the spent hull, and there are different crimping methods... some 2 3/4" shells are definitely longer than others. 

 

Either way, if I had a 20ga, I'd be all over this load, at least to see how it patterns.

[10P8TRIOT]

I keep my Winchester 1300 Defender loaded with Federal Premium LE132 reduced recoil 00 buck.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by 10P8TRIOT
Replaced photobucket link