Hiking/camping gun

[homeagain]

Camping (usually in a popup): 870 12 ga. in camper and G19 on hip - SW BG .380 in pocket

 

Hiking: G19 on hip SW BG.380 in pocket

 

I actually encountered more bears in CT in 2 years than the other 47 in TN....was at a friend's house in Barkhamstead and one was casually wandering through their blueberry bushes, and in Woodstock while fishing had one swing in to take a look.

 

Even if you move to East TN you likely won't see one unless it's in Cade's Cove.

Edited April 28, 2014 by homeagain

[K191145]

Well, I haven't been camping in a long time but I also would be concerned about the worlds most dangerous animal of the 2 legged kind. I would carry my G21. I know the old 9mm vs .45 argument but you still can't go wrong with 13 rounds of 230grain, it will do the job.
Now if I was in Wyoming, I might like a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Cassull.

[moondawg]

Those of you carrying shotguns, what loads are you carrying?  Buckshot, slugs, bird shot?

[10-Ring]

I've packed everything from a .22 revolver to a 870 with slugs and buckshot while camping and hiking.  It depends a lot on what part of the state you are in and what your intent is.  (i.e. if I'm carrying a .22 it's going to be for plinking or small game if that scenario allows.)  For the purpose of this post I will assume that whatever you are carrying is purely for protection and not recreation or a chance at harvesting game.  If you are West of the Smokey Mountains bears are not normally an issue, though they have occasionally been spotted as far east as Cookeville they are rarely ever seen out of the mountains.  Disclaimer: I live just at the edge of the mountains, I can see them out my back door, I've never seen a bear within 10 miles or so from here but see them often closer to the mountain.  I would estimate that I see a dozen or so per year, but I do spend quite a bit of time in the woods.  That said, they are generally not a problem as long as you are smart about your interaction with them.  Still I carry a gun in bear country for the same reason that I carry a gun to Walmart.

 

So, for activities west of the Smokey Mountains I'd just carry what ever you normally carry.  Pigs are about all you may run into that will give you any problems.  Feral dogs perhaps as well.  Snakes are no bother, if you have time to take aim at a snake you have time to turn around and walk the other way, they won't chase you.  As the others have said the two legged critters are the ones you need to worry about the most.  Don't know what it is about nature that brings out the methheads and pillbillies.

[Clod Stomper]

If you are West of the Smokey Mountains bears are not normally an issue, ...

...

  As the others have said the two legged critters are the ones you need to worry about the most.  Don't know what it is about nature that brings out the methheads and pillbillies.

True, but depends on how far west you go. In Wyoming or Montana I'd be more worried about grizzlies than worthless trash dopeheads. Skinny methheads can be dispatched by a 9mm or less fairly easily. Grizzlies can kill you accidentally if they're scared (or just mean or hungry).

Back to Tennessee. I don't even worry about black bears. They're no more hard to stop than a human. And REAL attacks are very rare. They'll run away first statistically 100% of the time.

I've trapped bears in the Smokies for UT. Even caught a couple very tiny (15 lbs or so) cubs. We just KNEW that mama had to be close, so we kept a close eye out. She never showed.

Yes, there are occasional black bear fatalities. Like the one above Elkmont (somewhere around 2000, while I was working there). The woman that was killed was waaaay too close as evidenced by the pics she was taking of the bears just before she was eaten. The mama bear was about 100 lbs. A 100 pound bear can be fought off if one has the strength and actually tries. Or better yet, don't pretend that they're pets and take close-up pics

My point is... black bear fatalities are so rare that they can be discounted. I do know a couple people that have been bitten by habituated bears, but that's a different post.

In TN, I pack for the two-legged predators. And that will take care of any four legged ones as well.

[Guest sigequinox]

Thanks for all the responses guys...and just when I was convincing myself to get a 44 mag! I Probably still will because I am a gun junkie :) Anyway, I find the AR/shotgun posts interesting. Didn't realize that in Free America you can take those out with you too. Not sure the AR would come, but an SBR shotgun would be pretty functional for overnight camping trips.

 

ETA: Should I really be concerned about meth activity in public forests?

Edited April 30, 2014 by sigequinox

[nightrunner]

Meth and especially weed farms.

Remember .44mags get heavy after awhile. Id much rather carry a 1911 than a 629 all day long.

[peejman]

 

ETA: Should I really be concerned about meth activity in public forests?

 

 

In the National Park not so much, though meth heads and other wackos are known to show up at trail shelters.  It's more likely to run across nefarious activities in the various forests, though that's still very rare. bThe back country is a good hiding place for people who don't want to be found.

Edited April 30, 2014 by peejman

[Guest sigequinox]

Meth and especially weed farms.
Remember .44mags get heavy after awhile. Id much rather carry a 1911 than a 629 all day long.

Gonna have to disagree there. The 329pd weigh 28 ounces. About as much as a glock 20. If I was going to stow the heavy bore stuff, I would be taking something that holds more run 7 rounds. From my research the 45 is pretty much exclusively a "human" round. Not good fir bear. Been reading that 10mm is adequate for black bear but not much bigger than that.

With that in mind a glock 20 with 15 rounds of 10mm might strike a nice balance between 2 and 4 legged threats

[nightrunner]

The scandium frame S&Ws are the exception to that. They are perfect hiking guns IMO

The G20 is a great hiking gun as well as long as black bear is as big as it gets. Not saying a bit 200 gr hardcast wont take down a grizzly with the right shot but id rather not chance it

[molonlabetn]

I've personally contemplated investing in a Serbu Shorty for a backpack/camping/truck gun, simply for the portability and ability to use many different loads.

[Guest sigequinox]

I've personally contemplated investing in a Serbu Shorty for a backpack/camping/truck gun, simply for the portability and ability to use many different loads.

Is that considered a pistol or sbr?

[molonlabetn]

It's technically an AOW. Essentially a short barreled shotgun with no stock, still an NFA item, but the stamp is only $5.

[JAB]

Even if you move to East TN you likely won't see one unless it's in Cade's Cove.

 

I came across this sign posted on a small bridge on the trail that leads to the Donley Cabin in the Tellico/Citico area a couple of summers ago.  The bridge, sign was just off of the road where the parking area to walk the trail or go to the cabin are:

 

 

The summer before that, around the 4th of July, while camping along the Tellico River we overheard a couple of TWRA guys telling the folks in the campsite next to us that they had already had a couple of bear vs. human related incidences in that area.

 

This incident also took place in the same, general part of the Cherokee National Forest (although down around Benton) a few years ago.  A mother mauled and left in critical condition while trying to fend off the bear, her little boy attacked and her little girl killed and at least partially eaten :

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/16/bear.attack/index.html?_s=PM:US

 

Here is a report about a woman who was killed by black bears in the Smoky Mountains, also a few years back (2000.)

 

http://www.mysmokymountainvacation.com/news/bear-attack.html

 

Then there was the 8 year old Florida boy who was attacked by the same bear not once but twice in the same incident (the bear attacked, the father managed to run it off then it came back and attacked, again - luckily, the father managed to run it off a second time.)  The formatting on this article is screwy for some reason but the story is still readable:

 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/aug/12/black-bear-attacks-boy-in-smokies-father-also/?printer=1/

 

As for only seeing them in Cades Cove, there have been black bears sighted running around in West Knox County over the past, couple of years.  This sighting took place last summer:

 

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/282065/2/Black-bear-spotted-in-West-Knox-County

 

I have also, personally, seen a black bear running around right in downtown Gatlinburg, running across the road and through the parking lot of a hotel.  This wasn't even after dark - it happened in the middle of the day, right around lunch time.  I think it was just scared and trying to get back to the forest as it ran past at least one group of people who I don't believe were ever even aware it was there.

 

So, sure, bear attacks aren't all that common and two-legged threats are more likely but that doesn't mean that every, single black bear got that memo.  I also certainly don't want anyone to think I am advocating shooting/shooting at bears that are just minding their own business. Further, I will never understand people who purposefully approach a potentially dangerous, wild animal, walk to within a couple of feet of the animal, pose for a picture and then act all surprised when the animal attacks them.   However, I don't want to end up as a snack, either. 

 

My thinking when I spend time in such areas is that a gun that would be 'sufficient' for a two-legged threat might not be sufficient for a bear but a gun/ammo combination which would at least stand a chance against a bear would most likely be more than adequate for two-legged threats so why not opt for the latter?  For me, that means a four-inch .357 Magnum (formerly a Taurus but now a Ruger GP100) loaded up with Buffalo Bore 180 grain lead flat nosed, hard cast bullets.  Even that might be 'marginal' for an aggressive black bear and If I were in grizzly country, I'd want something bigger but I think it would at least be better than a 9mm, etc. for potential bear defense.

Edited May 1, 2014 by JAB

[Clod Stomper]

Yes, I failed to mention habituated bears. They ARE dangerous. Most any time you see one of those signs, it will involve a bear that has learned to associate humans with food.

The woman who was killed above Elkmont in the Smokies, was really an anomoly. She was for sure too close. She turned and ran for whatever reason (probably because mama bear was trying to scare her off). When she ran, that triggered the bears' predator instinct. So mama bear ran her down and killed her. Then they both ate her.

I forget the weight of the baby bear, but mama bear was about 110 pounds. They were both killed with a .40 cal.

I had forgotten about the one in the CNF near Benton. Have to look into that.

With the exception of Gatlinburg garbage bears, a 300 pound bear in this part of the country is a big one. I feel perfectly comfortable carrying a 9mm in Tennessee bear country. Granted, I'd rather have heavier loads, but that goes for people defense too. They may be tougher than humans, but they're still just flesh and bone. Edited May 4, 2014 by Clod Stomper

[wjh2657]

Stainless Steel Ruger Bearcat for feral dogs .

 

Is everybody on this forum a wannabe criminal? It is against the law to shoot any wild animal in Tennessee unless that animal is classed as game, in season and you have the appropriate hunting license. Snakes, including venomous snakes, are protected in TN. About the only defense is protection of livestock or if animal is  too close to dwellings. Even here you are supposed to contact Animal Control for removal of the LIVE animal!

 

I personally think this law needs to be rewritten but it is the law right now.

Edited May 7, 2014 by wjh2657

[JAB]

Stainless Steel Ruger Bearcat for feral dogs .

 

Is everybody on this forum a wannabe criminal? It is against the law to shoot any wild animal in Tennessee unless that animal is classed as game, in season and you have the appropriate hunting license. Snakes, including venomous snakes, are protected in TN. About the only defense is protection of livestock or if animal is  too close to dwellings. Even here you are supposed to contact Animal Control for removal of the LIVE animal!

 

I personally think this law needs to be rewritten but it the law right now.

 

I hardly think that shooting a wild animal - any wild animal - that is posing a threat of death or serious, bodily injury to the shooter makes that person a 'wannabe criminal.'  If such a threat justifies using deadly force against another human being I hardly think that use of such force against a threatening, wild animal would be viewed as unjustified.  We are discussing options for a firearm to use as protection from such, potential threats not the best firearm for illegal poaching.

[SingleStack]

I would feel comfortable with either a G23 or 27 here in TN.

A few years ago my wife and i were hiking near missoula MT and walked right up on a Grizzly. He ran off about twenty yards and just looked at us. All I had on me was a G23,

So i figured id shoot the tree right next to his head and scare him off. He didnt even blink. We just walked away as slowly "but quickly" as we could.

Next week picked up a Redhawk and loaded it with Buffalo bore.

[Ugly]

I think if we had to shoot anything, including bear any round could work. Worst case, a bunch of 22 rounds to the face will do dang near do anything in.

Not having a picnic basket with you helps too 

[JAB]

I think if we had to shoot anything, including bear any round could work. Worst case, a bunch of 22 rounds to the face will do dang near do anything in.

Not having a picnic basket with you helps too 

 

Back in the early 1950s, an Inuit woman named Bella Twin (not to be confused with the Bella Twins) dropped a grizzly from a few yards away by shooting it in the side of the head with a single shot .22 rifle.  The bear was so large that it was the world's record for several years.  It wasn't charging her at the time but it did seem to be following her and her friend who were grouse hunting.  The two had hunkered down by a brush pile hoping the bear would go away but when it came close to them, she shot it.  Some accounts I have read claim the shot went in the bear's ear.  Whatever the case, I think she and her friend were incredibly lucky.  If it had been charging and she had been forced to try and stop it with her .22 then I imagine the outcome would have been quite different.

 

Heck, I have a crazy-assed cousin who lives in Georgia who has hunted and killed at least one black bear with just a big knife.  However, in that situation he uses dogs to keep the bear at bay while he comes in from behind and dispatches it.  That is a hunting situation where he is more or less in control - not a sudden bear attack where the bear has the element of surprise on its side.

 

What I think of is that bears are said to be able to run at speeds of 30-35 miles an hour.  That means by the time I realize the bear is charging me, I might have time to draw and fire one shot - maybe two if I am lucky - under a great amount of stress firing at a wild animal moving at a relatively high rate of speed.  Then the bear would be on me and even if I were still able to shoot at that point, I wouldn't be able to concentrate my fire on its face.  That is why I, personally, would not feel comfortable with the idea that several .22 rounds - or even a few 9mm rounds, for that matter - would stop the bear because chances are that if the animal is really posing a threat then I am not going to have time to fire several rounds.  Sure, a black bear might not be as hard to stop/kill as a grizzly but I once shot a possum that was in my chicken coop three times in the head - right in the brain - with a .22 before it finally died (and I am not talking about death throes - after the first, two shots the thing fell over then sat back up, hacked out some blood and just looked at me.)  These weren't cheapo, bulk pack .22s from a pocket pistol, either - they were Stingers fired from a S&W 22A with a 5.5 inch barrel (and that is why I now use a .22 Magnum or a shotgun with #5 shot to take care of possums and raccoons that invade my chicken coop.)  That being the case, I want whatever I am carrying to make the one or two rounds I might get off count.  If I have time to empty a magazine in a tight group into the animal's face - and especially if I have time to reload and continue shooting - before it begins mauling me then the animal probably wasn't posing all that great a threat in the first place.

 

I saw a show on one of the outdoor type channels back when I had cable that talked about what to do if you had to use a firearm to stop a bear attack.  The show was in grizzly country so they recommended a .44 Magnum as the minimum but I figured the other advice they gave made sense with other species of bear.  One thing they talked about is that the top portion of a bear's skull is very thick - so thick that even a higher powered round might not adequately penetrate the cranium in a direct, front-on shot.  Also, they showed (using a bear skull as a visual aid) that a bear''s brain sits 'lower' that you might think.  This added up to mean that your best chance of penetrating to the brain would be to aim at the bear's nose.  They went on to discuss how unlikely it would be to hit such a small, moving target area while a large, wild animal was coming to have you for dinner.  They also discussed how if the bear is charging you aren't likely to get a broadside heart/lung shot as you might if you were hunting from cover, etc.  All this added up to an interesting bit of advice.  The person with whom they were consulting recommended aiming for one of the bear's front shoulders.  They pointed out that the shoulder is a bigger target area that would be easier to hit when moving.  The reason shooting the shoulder would work, according to them, is that if you manage to destroy the joint or break one of the bones in that area then that shoulder/leg won't support the bear's weight - meaning the bear won't be able to keep running toward you.  Chances are good that the bear will fall when its weight lands on that shoulder/arm at running speeds.  At that point, you would have a much better chance of dispatching the attacking bear before it could munch on you.  Of course, that means you would need a gun/ammo combination that had enough power to penetrate the shoulder muscles and do sufficient damage to the shoulder structure.

Edited May 8, 2014 by JAB

[Ugly]

An aggressive bear is certainly a different story. I have come across bear numerous time and each time they would take off, I haven't crossed paths when they were with their young and I know that could change the situation when surprised.
We had one of our guys take a shot at a 400 + pounder with a 300 weatherby at about 75 yds. The bear dropped but when the hunter got up to him the bear jumped up and took off. He came and got us and the 6 of us went on to tracking him. At the spot of the shot, there were large chunks of shoulder bone/marrow/hair pieces, the big guy was defiantly hurt but ran like the wind. 8 hours we searched that day till way past dark. Went back the next day and searched all day. The sad part is we didn't find him. He was found two weeks later hidden in a small cave during buck season.
Lessons learned, the hunter knew he should have been ready to shoot again as he approached but he had buck fever. It was his first bear shot and he was 80 years old. 2nd is the shoulder is one large thick area.
I hope to never come across one and have to shoot it to save my hide. Black bear are curious but tend to avoid us 2 legged animals. In the meantime I gave up hunting them. I feel we disrespected nature since we didn't harvest him. Edited May 8, 2014 by Ugly

[ttocswob]

Ruger LCR in .357 Magnum, for all outdoor activity not related to hunting. I opt for 158 grain XTP's if in bear or hog country. Fiocchi's Extrema works really well in the snubby, better than the Hornady factory load IMO.

[Wingshooter]

I think one of the best things the TN Legislature has done in recent years is to allow HCP holders to carry a sidearm all year even while bowhunting. I like having my carry piece in the woods while hunting, camping and hiking. What I carry depends on the hunting season and if I want it concealed. I have leaned heavily towards revolvers for this purpose, but lately I have been jonesing for a Glock20 :)

Here is what I carry now (until I get the G20)


#1) S&W 3" Model 13-3 in .357mag. This is my primary "woods gun" at the moment. I can conceal it and it shoots well. The problem is I don't want to mess this gun up, so it's not ideal for this purpose. It carries great during bow season or while hiking though.


#2) Ruger Super Blackhawk 4-5/8" bbl in 44mag. I'll carry this if weight/concealability is not an issue and I want a backup to my rifle if deer gun season is open. I also prefer this if I'm camping or bowhunting in bear country.


#3) Next, as I mentioned, will be a G20. Since I've started shooting 3gun, I've realized just how important capacity is, lol. If I lived in griz country, I'd consider a G21 with a 460 Rowland conversion, but a 10mm should be more than sufficient in TN woods.

[TacoBubba]

Be wary about only seeing bears in cades cove. All bears above we on my family farm, less than a few miles from the appy trail. But, as stated above, I would worry more about two legged critters than bears. Unless you got in between a momma and her cubs, then you will have problems.

[RAJBCPA]

357 mag revolver...