Open Carry Without a Permit

[Q-tip]

The Brady Campaign called. They want their arguments back. 

 

Best post ever. 

 

But really, people, stop worrying. Blood [from incompetence] in the streets doesn't happen in the 25+ states that have permitless CC, and it won't happen in TN. Worrying about is silly at best. I currently live in MS, and we got permit-less OC passed last year. "Pro-gun" folks and anti's alike cried and fretted about incompetence lack of training, yadda yadda. But guess what? Nothing happened! Shouldn't we be seeing a pattern here?

 

One thing that did happen is more signs going up. They come down real fast when gun owners band together (a novel concept, I know) and tell businesses to remove the signs or lose customers. 

Edited April 11, 2014 by Q-tip

[Q-tip]

I only know of one state that mandates one must be a resident to qualify under any of its carry laws -- Wyoming.

 

- OS

 

I could be wrong, but i believe you have to be a resident to CC without a permit in WY, not to OC. 

[Oh Shoot]

I could be wrong, but i believe you have to be a resident to CC without a permit in WY, not to OC. 

 

That is correct. I only mentioned it as the only example I know of any "resident only" carry law.

 

- OS

[Rowdy]

Actually, the only TN border states that prohibit permitless OC are GA and SC. GA requires a permit and SC prohibits all OC. So in reality you could cross into any of the other TN border states OCing without a permit legally and without issue.

Geography fact of the day: Tennessee doesn't share a border with South Carolina.

[300winmag]

It looks like House leadership killed the bill anyway to avoid a floor vote.  It will be interesting to see if the park bill is stalled just like the open carry bill.

[Chucktshoes]

Geography fact of the day: Tennessee doesn't share a border with South Carolina.

HAHA! I really should have known that. I can offer only two items in my defense. 1) I was looking at the map on my phone and it was really little. 2) While I have visited the eastern coast several times, I've never been further east in the state than Nashville. My bad.

[Rowdy]

HAHA! I really should have known that. I can offer only two items in my defense. 1) I was looking at the map on my phone and it was really little. 2) While I have visited the eastern coast several times, I've never been further east in the state than Nashville. My bad.

You're good. I had all that stuff beaten into me at a young age and I can't forget it. But I can forget to put the milk away, pick up the dry cleaning, set the alarm clock... Just anything that really matters. Edited April 11, 2014 by Rowdy

[LagerHead]

Best post ever. 
 
But really, people, stop worrying. Blood [from incompetence] in the streets doesn't happen in the 25+ states that have permitless CC, and it won't happen in TN. Worrying about is silly at best. I currently live in MS, and we got permit-less OC passed last year. "Pro-gun" folks and anti's alike cried and fretted about incompetence lack of training, yadda yadda. But guess what? Nothing happened! Shouldn't we be seeing a pattern here?
 
One thing that did happen is more signs going up. They come down real fast when gun owners band together (a novel concept, I know) and tell businesses to remove the signs or lose customers.

Excellent point. Most of the folks who are against OC act like they have 20 years under their belt as a Space Shuttle door gunner and that is the minimum required by the state to get a permit. In fact, the training requirements by the state require about an hour of range time, and about 7 hours or watching videos, trying not to fall asleep while an instructor explains, poorly, the difference between single and double action, and telling lies.

Your permit is in no way a representation of your competence with firearms. It means that for one hour you were able to handle it without killing yourself or the guy next to you and were able to hit a rather large target that is not moving and placed as far as 15 whole yards from you. Congratulations, Jack Bauer, you're a trained killer now.

[TMF]

[quote name="LagerHead" post="1137182" timestamp="1397222862"]Excellent point. Most of the folks who are against OC act like they have 20 years under their belt as a Space Shuttle door gunner and that is the minimum required by the state to get a permit. In fact, the training requirements by the state require about an hour of range time, and about 7 hours or watching videos, trying not to fall asleep while an instructor explains, poorly, the difference between single and double action, and telling lies. Your permit is in no way a representation of your competence with firearms. It means that for one hour you were able to handle it without killing yourself or the guy next to you and were able to hit a rather large target that is not moving and placed as far as 15 whole yards from you. Congratulations, Jack Bauer, you're a trained killer now.[/quote] Makes me wonder what folks think about TN HCP holders who never went through any class at all. I have my permit. Never sat through any of that nonsense. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[china coaster]

VA has OC without a permit. They seem to be doing alright. 

[mikegideon]

Best post ever. 

 

But really, people, stop worrying. Blood [from incompetence] in the streets doesn't happen in the 25+ states that have permitless CC, and it won't happen in TN. Worrying about is silly at best. I currently live in MS, and we got permit-less OC passed last year. "Pro-gun" folks and anti's alike cried and fretted about incompetence lack of training, yadda yadda. But guess what? Nothing happened! Shouldn't we be seeing a pattern here?

 

One thing that did happen is more signs going up. They come down real fast when gun owners band together (a novel concept, I know) and tell businesses to remove the signs or lose customers. 

 

Here's some training...

 

http://bearingarms.com/l-a-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-two-of-three-hostages-as-they-escape-killing-one/

 

And, let's not forget the NYPD, who shoots everybody BUT the perp when they start mashing their 40 lb. triggers. 

[mikegideon]

Makes me wonder what folks think about TN HCP holders who never went through any class at all. I have my permit. Never sat through any of that nonsense. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You shot at some Hadjis. Same damn thing :)

[TMF]

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1137218" timestamp="1397228017"]You shot at some Hadjis. Same damn thing :)[/quote] Ha, well I wouldn't do them the honor of calling them Hadjis. I doubt any of them made the trip to Mecca to earn that status. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LagerHead]

VA has OC without a permit. They seem to be doing alright.

I find that hard to believe. We all know that open carry is an open invitation for all to abscond with your firearm and kill everyone in sight. I know this to be the case because I read it on the Internet.

[tennessee01tacoma]

If what I just read is true HB2409 goes before the house on Monday for a full vote.

[luvmyberetta]

I find that hard to believe. We all know that open carry is an open invitation for all to abscond with your firearm and kill everyone in sight. I know this to be the case because I read it on the Internet.

 

LOL! It appears alot of sheepish LEO's & Sheriff's feel exactly that way.

 

"If the word got out or if people knew they could come to Tennessee and carry a weapon, I'm sure that armed robberies are going to increase," said Claiborne County Sheriff David Ray. "Apparently they're wanting everyone in the state of Tennessee to carry a firearm. I'm against that. I think it's ridiculous." Source -  http://www.wbir.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/08/senate-votes-for-open-gun-carry-without-permit/7470327/

 

God forbid criminals find out that guns exist. According to this moron, every bad guy from every corner of the country would just flock here to TN to rob us. Whatever shall we do? Oh, yeah...how about carry a handgun to protect yourself?

[101]

It's not mandating open carry, it is allowing it with out a permit. You want to carry concealed as I would still do, you'll still have to have a permit.

However those that want to open carry and not get a permit, I have no problem with it.

 

 

Here is the problem with that.  

 

Concealed carry with a permit will result in cops having complete discretion on the actual manner of concealed.  I lived in PA for a bit and they have OC no permit unless concealed.  The favorite trick of cops is to say "hey there, 1/2 inch of your shirt just slipped over the very edge of your guns grip, that makes it a concealed weapon now.". Now you're getting a fine or arrested for no permit.  They have used that trick for years and years up there and that is what I'm afraid of here.

Edited April 11, 2014 by 101

[teecro]

Here is the problem with that.  

 

Concealed carry with a permit will result in cops having complete discretion on the actual manner of concealed.  I lived in PA for a bit and they have OC no permit unless concealed.  The favorite trick of cops is to say "hey there, 1/2 inch of your shirt just slipped over the very edge of your guns grip, that makes it a concealed weapon now.". Now you're getting a fine or arrested for no permit.  They have used that trick for years and years up there and that is what I'm afraid of here.

 

Now is that a trick that they actually get away with or is it just lore? MI has OC without permit and the closest to trouble that folks run into with concealed vs not concealed is come winter time when the coats come out as the gun must remain outside of the coat. There have been updates to MI LEO on this for at least the last 4 years and if the cops tried that BS here they find themselves on the wrong end of the attention ...

[deerslayer]

Best post ever. 

 

But really, people, stop worrying. Blood [from incompetence] in the streets doesn't happen in the 25+ states that have permitless CC, and it won't happen in TN. Worrying about is silly at best. I currently live in MS, and we got permit-less OC passed last year. "Pro-gun" folks and anti's alike cried and fretted about incompetence lack of training, yadda yadda. But guess what? Nothing happened! Shouldn't we be seeing a pattern here?

 

One thing that did happen is more signs going up. They come down real fast when gun owners band together (a novel concept, I know) and tell businesses to remove the signs or lose customers. 

 

 

I'm not worried about the "blood in the streets" stuff.  I am concerned about more businesses getting posted due to uneducated OCers' behavior.  In my experience, gunowners banding together and threatening to boycott businesses gets mixed results. 

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="deerslayer" post="1137471" timestamp="1397263450"]I'm not worried about the "blood in the streets" stuff. I am concerned about more businesses getting posted due to uneducated OCers' behavior. In my experience, gunowners banding together and threatening to boycott businesses gets mixed results. [/quote] While I can appreciate that concern for the inconveniences it would cause, at the end of the day I am still on the side of removing government from the equation as much as possible. Inconveniences < natural rights.

[sigmtnman]

I'm not worried about the "blood in the streets" stuff.  I am concerned about more businesses getting posted due to uneducated OCers' behavior.  In my experience, gunowners banding together and threatening to boycott businesses gets mixed results. 

 

Would you rather the .gov tell you you can't do something or a private business tell you they don't want your business if you choose to do something?

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

I have mixed feelings about this...First and foremost is the question of constitutionality ref the 2nd Amendment. If it passes that test, then by all means implement it. My comfort level or the comfort level of others takes a distant backseat to constitutional rights and protections.

 

With that the question I have always found interesting is...WHY? The obvious reason to carry, open or otherwise, is self protection. It is not, or should not be anyway, about machismo or intimidation. If someone carries for those reasons, even partially, then, IMO, they are doing it for the wrong reasons.I will agree that open carry presents a visible deterrent...but it may also present an opportunity/loss of suprise advantage. They other thing I take into consideration is yes, I DO care about my fellow human beings and if I can provide a level of self protection while not increasing their stress level, why not do it.

 

So anyway, yeah, I'm glad to see this issue brought up and I hope it passes. 

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

Here is the problem with that.  

 

Concealed carry with a permit will result in cops having complete discretion on the actual manner of concealed.  I lived in PA for a bit and they have OC no permit unless concealed.  The favorite trick of cops is to say "hey there, 1/2 inch of your shirt just slipped over the very edge of your guns grip, that makes it a concealed weapon now.". Now you're getting a fine or arrested for no permit.  They have used that trick for years and years up there and that is what I'm afraid of here.

There is no question that is blatant abuse of power...and it needs to be crushed at the executive, legislative, and judicial level.

[deerslayer]

Would you rather the .gov tell you you can't do something or a private business tell you they don't want your business if you choose to do something?

 

 

I would prefer minor government involvement to seeing a new posted business every time I go somewhere.

[DaveTN]

I have mixed feelings about this...First and foremost is the question of constitutionality ref the 2nd Amendment. If it passes that test, then by all means implement it. My comfort level or the comfort level of others takes a distant backseat to constitutional rights and protections.

This is not a 2nd amendment issue. If our legislature was recognizing a right to carry; they wouldn’t be voting on an “open” carry bill.

Unless it has been pulled we have a bill that is close, if not Constitutional carry. Edited April 12, 2014 by DaveTN