TN OC bill passed Senate

[dunndw]

I am of two minds on this. As a constitutionalist I'm all for people being able to exercise their rights without government meddling, taxes, permits, etc. Dems would lose their minds if the restrictions placed on the 2nd Amendment were placed on the first 

As a firearms instructor, I'm actually appalled at the idea of some of the people I've seen in class having the ability to strap on a pistol and do a walkabout. After hours of instruction I've still had loaded pistols pointed at my chest with the hammer back. There are some people who just don't learn. Non "gun people" who haven't had the experience or training to handle firearms properly don't need to carry them. I also think there should be some kind of training required. I can only imagine the media feeding frenzy if some bonehead shoots someone's toy poodle while carrying.

 

At the end of the day, I'll fall on the side of the Constitution and hope and pray that at least SOME of the people who decide to carry will at least watch a damn YouTube video on the subject. Perhaps we should buy stock in Uncle Mike, I foresee a run on cheap nylon holsters if this bill passes.

[bersaguy]

:panic:>>>>>>>> Gosh................. :rofl: .    In all honesty I made that post to see how people might react and I got what I was expecting more or less. I figured it would ruffle a few feathers when I added Tombstone and Dodge city. I did put it in the post that Someone has finally realized what the 2nd Amendment represents but I guess yall missed that part. Just to get this said I do hope and pray that is does pass and that is what our fore fathers did have planned and our people in DC and many states have been trying to deny us so hey I one the same side on this as yall.......... :rock: :rock:

[teecro]

I am of two minds on this. As a constitutionalist I'm all for people being able to exercise their rights without government meddling, taxes, permits, etc. Dems would lose their minds if the restrictions placed on the 2nd Amendment were placed on the first 

As a firearms instructor, I'm actually appalled at the idea of some of the people I've seen in class having the ability to strap on a pistol and do a walkabout. After hours of instruction I've still had loaded pistols pointed at my chest with the hammer back. There are some people who just don't learn. Non "gun people" who haven't had the experience or training to handle firearms properly don't need to carry them. I also think there should be some kind of training required. I can only imagine the media feeding frenzy if some bonehead shoots someone's toy poodle while carrying.

 

At the end of the day, I'll fall on the side of the Constitution and hope and pray that at least SOME of the people who decide to carry will at least watch a damn YouTube video on the subject. Perhaps we should buy stock in Uncle Mike, I foresee a run on cheap nylon holsters if this bill passes.

 

Now I will go so far as to say that I really think people who want to carry should actively seek out instruction and/or put in frequent range time to become of their own accord more proficient....

[bersaguy]

I am of two minds on this. As a constitutionalist I'm all for people being able to exercise their rights without government meddling, taxes, permits, etc. Dems would lose their minds if the restrictions placed on the 2nd Amendment were placed on the first 

As a firearms instructor, I'm actually appalled at the idea of some of the people I've seen in class having the ability to strap on a pistol and do a walkabout. After hours of instruction I've still had loaded pistols pointed at my chest with the hammer back. There are some people who just don't learn. Non "gun people" who haven't had the experience or training to handle firearms properly don't need to carry them. I also think there should be some kind of training required. I can only imagine the media feeding frenzy if some bonehead shoots someone's toy poodle while carrying.

 

At the end of the day, I'll fall on the side of the Constitution and hope and pray that at least SOME of the people who decide to carry will at least watch a damn YouTube video on the subject. Perhaps we should buy stock in Uncle Mike, I foresee a run on cheap nylon holsters if this bill passes.

I know exactly what your talking about. That is why when I went to take my course back years ago I ask my instructor Chad why he had a Kevlar on under his shirt outer shirt and he told me because he wants to go home after his classes. We had and elderly gentleman in our class that brought his gun with him instead of using one of the class weapons and just buying the ammo. He showed up with a 357 Snub Smith& Wesson brand new still in the box and the only time it had been fire was the 1 time at the factory and the empty casing still in the box. In the written test after the class room phase the older gentleman scored 100. Then we went to the range and my buddy that does the maintenance on the range was there to help Chad and BT was working with shooters to help out and it took the older gentleman about 5 minutes to learn how to load his new gun. The shooting class was at 4 different distances. 6 rounds @  4 yards, 6 rounds at 7 yards, 6 rounds at 10 yards and 6 rounds at 12 yards. After everyone else was done and up in the classroom Chad was still down in the range another 30 minutes with the older gentleman helping him learn and finally sent BT up to get one of the rental 38 caliber Smith revolvers with 5 inch barrel and the gentleman was able to qualify with it.  After all the class was over Chad took the gentleman up into the gun store up front and they spent about an hour finding a wheel gun the gentleman could shoot with relative accuracy and comfort and he traded the 357 mag and went home with a new 38 Caliber S&W 4 inch barrel that he could use to protect his home and carry if desired and would work best for him. It was situations like that why Chad wore Kevlar....... :up:

[teecro]

:panic:>>>>>>>> Gosh................. :rofl: .    In all honesty I made that post to see how people might react and I got what I was expecting more or less. I figured it would ruffle a few feathers when I added Tombstone and Dodge city. I did put it in the post that Someone has finally realized what the 2nd Amendment represents but I guess yall missed that part. Just to get this said I do hope and pray that is does pass and that is what our fore fathers did have planned and our people in DC and many states have been trying to deny us so hey I one the same side on this as yall.......... :rock: :rock:

 

Not that I missed "that part" I just find myself a little passionate of my views.... Product of my 30 year near military carrier choice I suppose...

[E4 No More]

I am of two minds on this. As a constitutionalist I'm all for people being able to exercise their rights without government meddling, taxes, permits, etc. Dems would lose their minds if the restrictions placed on the 2nd Amendment were placed on the first 

As a firearms instructor, I'm actually appalled at the idea of some of the people I've seen in class having the ability to strap on a pistol and do a walkabout. After hours of instruction I've still had loaded pistols pointed at my chest with the hammer back. There are some people who just don't learn. Non "gun people" who haven't had the experience or training to handle firearms properly don't need to carry them. I also think there should be some kind of training required. I can only imagine the media feeding frenzy if some bonehead shoots someone's toy poodle while carrying.

 

At the end of the day, I'll fall on the side of the Constitution and hope and pray that at least SOME of the people who decide to carry will at least watch a damn YouTube video on the subject. Perhaps we should buy stock in Uncle Mike, I foresee a run on cheap nylon holsters if this bill passes.

I've seen trained people do these kinds of things. Lots of LEO's have ND's throughout the country, and have shot the wrong person. Heck! In NY it seems that spray'n and pray'n is a department sport.

[btq96r]

Open or concealed, someone who assumes the responsibility of carry should get some basic training.  Anyone who assumes that the HCP course is training is fooling themselves.  Problem is I don't trust the general population to act responsibly, as I have already seen how most who get their HCP end their 'training' there.

 

Concur.  Shooting takes practice, practice and more practice to the point of muscle memory to be able to put steel on target effectively and safely in a non-range situation.  I think a training requirement isn't too much to ask and would consider it as people (male and female) doing their civic duty.

 

Another problem right now is the price of ammo is prohibitive for a lot of people who would love to keep in practice with their weapons.  Ammo has to come after paying the bills and making sure the kids are clothed and fed.

[E4 No More]

Concur.  Shooting takes practice, practice and more practice to the point of muscle memory to be able to put steel on target effectively and safely in a non-range situation.  I think a training requirement isn't too much to ask and would consider it as people (male and female) doing their civic duty.

 

Another problem right now is the price of ammo is prohibitive for a lot of people who would love to keep in practice with their weapons.  Ammo has to come after paying the bills and making sure the kids are clothed and fed.

This, and many local ranges aren't conducive for anything other than bull's-eye shooting.

[bersaguy]

I try and get some range time in every month if I can find ammo affordable to make that possible. So far I have been able to make it most months but don't get to fire as much as would like to. Sometimes on about 50 rounds and other times 100 rounds but some time at the range is better than no time at the range..............jmho

[Volphin]

Gee, elections are coming up huh?  All show and no go.

[Guest tangojuliet]

so the bill is dead what a shame 

[NashvilleStage]

Don't worry folks, unless a bunch of people light up the phone lines over the next few days, there is no chance this is going to get on the House floor.

 

So the operative phrase is... LIGHT UP THE PHONE LINES!

 

This is copied straight from the TFA:

 

URGENT ACTION NEEDED - Open Carry in TN on the verge of passing!

(anti-gun buddies Charles Sargent and Gov Bill Haslam plotting to take away your rights as seen here)

 

This morning Senator Mae Beavers' bill to allow open carry in Tennessee just passed the state Senate in an unexpected vote!!!

 

The bill, if passed in the House, would allow anyone in Tennessee who is legal to possess a gun to be able to open carry a handgun on their person without a permit, as long as it is not concealed.

RIGHT NOW, your urgent action is needed to see this bill all the way through to becoming law before they kill it for the year!

 

Unfortunately several weak-kneed Republicans in the state House, such as Finance Committee Chairman Charles Sargent, are preventing this bill from coming to the floor for a full vote. Rep Sargent, at the behest of Speaker Beth Harwell and Governor Haslam, is trying to run out the clock and stall the bill before they have to take a vote on it.

 

The legislature is set to close in just days, so it is CRITICAL that you call and e-mail the following legislators on the House Finance Committee and tell them to "PASS HB2409 TO THE FLOOR"

 

This is our last chance this year, it is up to you!

 

CALL THESE LEGISLATORS RIGHT NOW AND TELL THEM TO PASS HB 2409 TO THE HOUSE FLOOR FOR A FULL VOTE!!!

 

(The ones with the asterisk* appear to be opposed to the bill or "fence sitting" and actively trying to infringe your right to keep and bear arms)

 

*Charles Sargent, Chair (615) 741-6808 rep.charles.sargent@capitol.tn.gov

 

*David Alexander, Vice-Chair (615) 741-8695 rep.david.alexander@capitol.tn.gov

*Gerald McCormick (615) 741-2548 rep.gerald.mccormick@capitol.tn.gov

*Steve McDaniel (615) 741-0750 rep.steve.mcdaniel@capitol.tn.gov

*Dennis Roach (615) 741-2534 rep.dennis.roach@capitol.tn.gov

*Karen Camper (615) 741-1898 rep.karen.camper@capitol.tn.gov

*Michael Harrison (615) 741-7480 rep.mike.harrison@capitol.tn.gov

Joe Armstrong (615) 741-0768 rep.joe.armstrong@capitol.tn.gov

Kevin Brooks (615) 741-1350 rep.kevin.brooks@capitol.tn.gov

Kent Calfee (615) 741-7658 rep.kent.calfee@capitol.tn.gov

Mike Carter (615) 741-3025 rep.mike.carter@capitol.tn.gov

Barbara Cooper (615) 741-4295 rep.barbara.cooper@capitol.tn.gov

Craig Fitzhugh (615) 741-2134 rep.craig.fitzhugh@capitol.tn.gov

Steve Hall (615) 741-2287 rep.steve.hall@capitol.tn.gov

David Hawk (615) 741-7482 rep.david.hawk@capitol.tn.gov

Matthew Hill (615)-741-2251 rep.matthew.hill@capitol.tn.gov

Curtis Johnson (615) 741-4341 rep.curtis.johnson@capitol.tn.gov

Larry Miller (615) 741-4453 rep.larry.miller@capitol.tn.gov

Gary Odom (615) 741-4410 rep.gary.odom@capitol.tn.gov

Johnny Shaw (615) 741-4538 rep.johnny.shaw@capitol.tn.gov

 

Here is an email list if you would like to copy and paste in to your e-mail client:

rep.charles.sargent@capitol.tn.gov, rep.david.alexander@capitol.tn.gov, rep.gerald.mccormick@capitol.tn.gov, rep.steve.mcdaniel@capitol.tn.gov, rep.dennis.roach@capitol.tn.gov, rep.karen.camper@capitol.tn.gov, rep.mike.harrison@capitol.tn.gov, rep.joe.armstrong@capitol.tn.gov, rep.kevin.brooks@capitol.tn.gov, rep.kent.calfee@capitol.tn.gov, rep.mike.carter@capitol.tn.gov, rep.barbara.cooper@capitol.tn.gov, rep.craig.fitzhugh@capitol.tn.gov, rep.steve.hall@capitol.tn.gov, rep.david.hawk@capitol.tn.gov, rep.matthew.hill@capitol.tn.gov, rep.curtis.johnson@capitol.tn.gov, rep.larry.miller@capitol.tn.gov, rep.gary.odom@capitol.tn.gov, rep.johnny.shaw@capitol.tn.gov

 

In addition, do not forget to contact your personal House members and demand that they intervene!!!  They can and should sign on immediately as co-sponsors on this bill.  They can and should contact Speaker Harwell to put a stop to this "community organizer" style stunt. 

You can look up your House member and his/her contact information here: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/legislators/

[Worriedman]

Yesterday they said that there was not fiscal impact, today they turn around and say there will, by DOS Safety Policy, be a charge of $100,000.00 as they will reprint the permit cards to read "concealed carry" only.  Seems anything they can do to kill this bill is going to be used.

[Mike.357]

Good reason for that. Tombstone is a gun free zone. Yup, its true. Or at least was...

 

 

I carried in Tombstone a few years ago.  Never saw any posting that carry was not legal there.  Must'a missed it maybe.

[E4 No More]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/25205330/haslam-examining-ramifications-of-open-carry-bill

 

It seems that the RINO is playing it safe as expected.

[Worriedman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6ml6bRJJE

[NashvilleStage]

Yep. This is changing by the hour, as different people try to throw something new in the way. It needs our help, but it's not dead.

 

This is the latest update from the TFA, issued this morning:

 

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Tenn. Firearms Assoc.: UPDATE on Open Carry - Will government lie? Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 11:00:29 -0700 From: John Harris - Tennessee Firearms Association Inc <johnharris@tfaonline.org> Reply-To: tfalac@tfaonline.org To:  

URGENT UPDATE!!!

Tennessee Department of Safety apparently willing to misrepresent state law to kill Open Carry legislation.

Legislators are trying to pass an Open Carry law in Tennessee but leadership and/or the Governor are trying to stop it. 

Yesterday, Senator Mae Beavers' bill (SB2424) to allow open carry passed the state Senate on vote of 25-2!

However, also yesterday, the House bill by Rep. Micah Van Huss (HB2409), was "delayed" to a point where it may not even be heard on the House Floor.  It was delayed by a subcommittee of the House Finance Committee (which is chaired by Rep. Charles Sargent).  This committee has a "reputation" under Rep. Sargent's leadership for killing bills in ways that preclude votes by all Representatives.  

That is right, this bill may die and your legislator will not even be given the chance to vote on it.  If that happens, what good is your right to vote to send representatives and senators to Nashville who are then denied the opportunity to vote on bills of interest to you?

Your urgent action is needed to see this bill all the way through to becoming law before they kill it for the year!

So, why is this news today?

Yesterday, the bill had an "estimated cost" or a "fiscal note" that concluded that the law would not cost money to implement.  As such, there was no jurisdiction in the Finance Committee to even vote on the bill.  Bills without fiscal impact routinely never go to the Finance committee.

Then today a yet further revised fiscal note was released which states that the open carry law will cost an estimated $100,000 to implement!   Why?

Because the Tennessee Department of Safety (under Haslam's control) has issued an opinion that if this Open Carry law passes that it wants to start printing on the handgun permits that it issues that the permits are "for the purpose of carrying a concealed handgun."

Here is what has been said in the amended fiscal note dated April 9:

Other Fiscal Impact - The legislation does not require nor will it cause the Department of Safety to make any changes to handgun carry permit cards. If the Department does not make any changes to handgun carry permit cards, the fiscal impact for the bill as amended is not significant. However, the Department has indicated that, based on departmental policy, it will elect to make changes to the permit cards, for a one-time cost of $100,000, to reflect permit cards are issued for the purpose of carrying a concealed handgun.

Corrected assumption for the bill as amended:

-   According to the Department of Safety (DOS), this bill as amended will not have an impact on the number of permits issued or renewed annually. The bill's fiscal impact to revenue from such permits is considered not significant.

- Because of departmental policy, DOS will elect to make design changes to the handgun carry permit card to clarify and designate that such permits are issued for the purpose of carrying a concealed handgun. DOS indicates that it will elect to expend $100,000 on a one-time basis to make such design changes.

State law does not have any concealment requirement for the handgun permits.  The Open Carry bill does not create a concealment requirement for permit holders.  Thus, that assertion by the Tennessee Department of Safety, that statement of intent, is a complete and utter misrepresentation of state law.  

One could easily infer that it has been made for one purpose - to create a basis for a fiscal note that Charles Sargent's Finance Committee can use to kill the Open Carry legislation this year.

The legislature is set to close in just days, so it is CRITICAL that you call and e-mail the following legislators on the House Finance Committee and tell them to IGNORE THE MISREPRESENTATIONS IN THE AMENDED FISCAL NOTE and "PASS HB2409 TO THE FLOOR"

It is also critical to call and email the Speaker Beth Harwell with demands that she intervene and bring this bill immediately to the floor which can be done under House Rule 53.

Her contact information is:

Phone (615) 741-0709
Fax (615) 741-4917
speaker.beth.harwell@capitol.tn.gov

CALL EACH OF THESE LEGISLATORS RIGHT NOW AND TELL THEM TO PASS HB 2409 TO THE HOUSE FLOOR FOR A FULL VOTE!!!  


Let them know you are aware of the proposed misrepresentations by the Department of Safety and that its wrong for a state agency to indicate a willingness to lie about your legal rights and the status of the law.

*Charles Sargent, Chair (615) 741-6808 rep.charles.sargent@capitol.tn.gov *David Alexander, Vice-Chair (615) 741-8695 rep.david.alexander@capitol.tn.gov *Gerald McCormick (615) 741-2548 rep.gerald.mccormick@capitol.tn.gov *Steve McDaniel (615) 741-0750 rep.steve.mcdaniel@capitol.tn.gov *Dennis Roach (615) 741-2534 rep.dennis.roach@capitol.tn.gov *Karen Camper (615) 741-1898 rep.karen.camper@capitol.tn.gov *Michael Harrison (615) 741-7480 rep.mike.harrison@capitol.tn.gov Joe Armstrong (615) 741-0768 rep.joe.armstrong@capitol.tn.gov Kevin Brooks (615) 741-1350 rep.kevin.brooks@capitol.tn.gov Kent Calfee (615) 741-7658 rep.kent.calfee@capitol.tn.gov Mike Carter (615) 741-3025 rep.mike.carter@capitol.tn.gov Barbara Cooper (615) 741-4295 rep.barbara.cooper@capitol.tn.gov Craig Fitzhugh (615) 741-2134 rep.craig.fitzhugh@capitol.tn.gov Steve Hall (615) 741-2287 rep.steve.hall@capitol.tn.gov David Hawk (615) 741-7482 rep.david.hawk@capitol.tn.gov Matthew Hill (615)-741-2251 rep.matthew.hill@capitol.tn.gov Curtis Johnson (615) 741-4341 rep.curtis.johnson@capitol.tn.gov Larry Miller (615) 741-4453 rep.larry.miller@capitol.tn.gov Gary Odom (615) 741-4410 rep.gary.odom@capitol.tn.gov Johnny Shaw (615) 741-4538 rep.johnny.shaw@capitol.tn.gov

(The ones with the asterisk* appear to be opposed to the bill or "fence sitting" and/or actively trying to infringe your right to keep and bear arms)

Here is an email list if you would like to copy and paste in to your e-mail client:
rep.charles.sargent@capitol.tn.gov, rep.david.alexander@capitol.tn.gov, rep.gerald.mccormick@capitol.tn.gov, rep.steve.mcdaniel@capitol.tn.gov, rep.dennis.roach@capitol.tn.gov, rep.karen.camper@capitol.tn.gov, rep.mike.harrison@capitol.tn.gov, rep.joe.armstrong@capitol.tn.gov, rep.kevin.brooks@capitol.tn.gov, rep.kent.calfee@capitol.tn.gov, rep.mike.carter@capitol.tn.gov, rep.barbara.cooper@capitol.tn.gov, rep.craig.fitzhugh@capitol.tn.gov, rep.steve.hall@capitol.tn.gov, rep.david.hawk@capitol.tn.gov, rep.matthew.hill@capitol.tn.gov, rep.curtis.johnson@capitol.tn.gov, rep.larry.miller@capitol.tn.gov, rep.gary.odom@capitol.tn.gov, rep.johnny.shaw@capitol.tn.gov


In addition, do not forget to contact your personal House members and demand that they intervene!!!  They can and should sign on immediately as co-sponsors on this bill.  They can and should contact Speaker Harwell to put a stop to this "community organizer" style stunt. 

You can look up your House member and his/her contact information at this index:  House Directory


In liberty,
 

John Harris
Executive Director
Tennessee Firearms Association

[Clod Stomper]

Yesterday they said that there was not fiscal impact, today they turn around and say there will, by DOS Safety Policy, be a charge of $100,000.00 as they will reprint the permit cards to read "concealed carry" only. Seems anything they can do to kill this bill is going to be used.

That's ridonkulous. So if this passes, the carry permit becomes concealed only? Psssh.

Have these empty suits absolutely no common sense? Wait... that was a silly question.

[NashvilleStage]

So if this passes, the carry permit becomes concealed only?

 

If it passes, the permit will only be *necessary* for concealed carry. Open carry will not require a permit (beyond the normal requirements of being legally allowed to posses a firearm, etc...)

[Clod Stomper]

If it passes, the permit will only be *necessary* for concealed carry. Open carry will not require a permit (beyond the normal requirements of being legally allowed to posses a firearm, etc...)

I actually knew that. I was meaning to poke sarcasm at the dumbarses in the legislature.

But my words not work good two-day. My bad.

[whitewolf001]

I don't think it should be required to get training but it is most certainly advantageous for ANYONE carrying to get it as well as being well versed on the laws surrounding carrying a firearm at all.

[NashvilleStage]

I actually knew that. I was meaning to poke sarcasm at the dumbarses in the legislature.

But my words not work good two-day. My bad.

 

LOL. No worries.

We need a <sarcasm> font.  :)

[teecro]

LOL. No worries.

We need a <sarcasm> font.  :)

 

On another forum I play in we use a different color font to show sarcasm....

[Oh Shoot]

If it passes, the permit will only be *necessary* for concealed carry. Open carry will not require a permit (beyond the normal requirements of being legally allowed to posses a firearm, etc...)

 

Forgive me for not finding it myself, and/or if it's already been mentioned, but would this bill allow 18 year olds to carry?

 

There are any number of 21+ folks who can legally possess firearms who can't get an HCP, too, but would be able to open carry.

 

- OS

[wk05]

The way the bills text is worded it will. The key phrases to look for are "legally posess". Same as with the HB1480/SB1774.

Just like almost every state that borders TN :) Edited April 10, 2014 by wk05