Help me to understand something

[E4 No More]

So in another thread about a gun shop in Tennessee I once again saw people getting their panties in a wad and publicly complain about that business selling something at MSRP. In this case it was .22 ammo, but it really doesn't matter what in the heck it is. I find it ironic that on a forum dedicated to people exercising their rights that some of said people would complain about some businessperson exercising their right to charge what the market will bear. Are they saying that they believe in their rights being preserved but it's unreasonable for a businessperson to exercise their rights to set the price on their product/service? What if these people want to sell something of theirs...should their price be dependent on what a group of other people think is reasonable? If I could sell a pencil to someone who's willing to pay a million dollars for it do I not have the right to do so without a bunch of people bad-mouthing me on the Interwebs?

 

Just this last Saturday I went to a large, and relatively new, gun shop in Nashville who are also one of TGO's sponsors. I was with my wife and adult daughter looking for a handgun that everyone could use in a pinch and that would still have enough power to punch, (my wife has teeny hands). We settled on a M&P .40 Shield that the store had a $444.99 price tag on it. I asked the employee if that was their best price on the weapon to which he answered to the affirmative. I told him I wanted to noodle over it, and then I whipped-out my cell phone to check prices online. They were over-priced compared to online, (yes, taking into account the venue and transfers fees and such), so I told the employee that they were over-priced, thanked him for his time, and then we left. I ended up at my local gun store that had the same weapon for $399.99. Guess who got my business? I may even go back and get another weapon for myself.

 

No business will be successful charging more than the market will bear for a product, nor will they be successful giving crap away, so why do some feel the need to try and destroy a business online? I don't get it. :(

 

 

[Guest Torrin]

Unless you are the Franklin Gun Shop. :) I just purchase a Shield in 9mm and ended up getting it at Academy, $399. This is the first time I have purchase a gun from them and they procedure it a bit wonky.

[Ugly]

I think the tone of the other threads is about the level of ethics in gouging. I think capitalism is the best system any country has ever seen but when a few really take advantage of what is going on, they seem like those folks that buy as much 22 ammo as they can just to resell it at extreme prices. Taking advantage is not a good quality imo. 

 

A 15 dollar product that is marked up to 45 just because there is a bit of panic in the air is beyond bad business in my eyes. The key is if you feel like you got a good deal and are happy with the transaction. Personally I like to support my local shops but I do have limits with what I'm willing to pay.  

[piercedan]

Didn't see the thread you referenced, but I think sensitivities are really up with regards to 22 ammo. Nobody likes to be taken advantage of, and a lot of people feel that is what is happening with it. You hit the nail on the head, too high, don't buy. Otherwise it will continue. These guys who are gouging continue to do so because someone is paying their prices.

[piercedan]

Free market cuts both ways.

[E4 No More]

Didn't see the thread you referenced, but I think sensitivities are really up with regards to 22 ammo. Nobody likes to be taken advantage of, and a lot of people feel that is what is happening with it. You hit the nail on the head, too high, don't buy. Otherwise it will continue. These guys who are gouging continue to do so because someone is paying their prices.

This^^^

[E4 No More]

Unless you are the Franklin Gun Shop. :) I just purchase a Shield in 9mm and ended up getting it at Academy, $399. This is the first time I have purchase a gun from them and they procedure it a bit wonky.

I won't mention who had the high prices because they are a supporting vendor here and they will learn their own lessons, or not, without me pounding them on it. I will say that I bought my Shield at Specialty Arms in Lavergne who in the past I have found high at times, BUT they are willing to listen to the customer. It makes me feel good that you got the same price in a big box store as I did at a small store. :)

[Metalhead]

I won't mention who had the high prices because they are a supporting vendor here and they will learn their own lessons, or not, without me pounding them on it. I will say that I bought my Shield at Specialty Arms in Lavergne who in the past I have found high at times, BUT they are willing to listen to the customer. It makes me feel good that you got the same price in a big box store as I did at a small store. :)

 

 

I had several people over the past month tell me John had gotten out of the gun business. I didn't believe it, but good to know that it isn't the case. I had a good time with him in Hawaii.

[10-Ring]

It's all about ethics.  If I chose not to shop somewhere because they are gouging customers it's not because I'm protesting capitalism, it's because I'm protesting that business owner being a d***.  He has the right to screw his customers and his customers have the right to shop elsewhere.    

[runco]

I always vote with my money and not my lips.  Its been long time since I purchased a gun, ammo, magazine or other firearm related item from a brick and mortar store, my recent 10 year old's 410 O/U the exception.  Brick and mortars just can not compete.  I don't complain, I don't bad mouth, and I don't get my panties in a knot!  I admit I use brick and mortars for touch, feel, and taste!  Yes, I am immoral when I shop, but hey thats the cost of doing business. :yuck:

[leroy]

It's all about ethics.  If I chose not to shop somewhere because they are gouging customers it's not because I'm protesting capitalism, it's because I'm protesting that business owner being a d***.  He has the right to screw his customers and his customers have the right to shop elsewhere.    

 

Well said!!!

 

keep up the good work...

leroy

[E4 No More]

It's all about ethics.  If I chose not to shop somewhere because they are gouging customers it's not because I'm protesting capitalism, it's because I'm protesting that business owner being a d***.  He has the right to screw his customers and his customers have the right to shop elsewhere.    

So if someone's willing to buy my pencil for a million dollars I would be a d***?

[Guest Authenticman]

A lot of people dont seem to understand the way business works. I have bought guns from 4 different gunstores in the greater Nashville area. Some are high on some items and not so much on others. That is why people price shop. I know I can buy my firearms at certain places for the best deals, .40 ammo at certain places and .22 ammo at other places and come out on top. People seem to be mad at the end users for pricing but for the most part I think it is the distributors that cause the fluctuation in pricing. Many times there can be a substantial difference in pricing at two different gunstores that run the same % mark up because they bought the items for different prices from different distributors or buy in different quantities. Such is life. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[E4 No More]

I always vote with my money and not my lips.  Its been long time since I purchased a gun, ammo, magazine or other firearm related item from a brick and mortar store, my recent 10 year old's 410 O/U the exception.  Brick and mortars just can not compete.  I don't complain, I don't bad mouth, and I don't get my panties in a knot!  I admit I use brick and mortars for touch, feel, and taste!  Yes, I am immoral when I shop, but hey thats the cost of doing business. :yuck:

I don't think it immoral. I saw at Gunbroker the weapon at $370, but when you add in the transfer fee then it's the same as the brick and mortar shop. But, I've been burned too many times online as well.

[Ugly]

I agree that the only way to curb this is to not pay the higher prices. 22 is the prime catalyst left over and I have come across it at a few shops, their prices were too high  so I walk. This has given me a new found respect for my air guns though.

[E4 No More]

A lot of people dont seem to understand the way business works. I have bought guns from 4 different gunstores in the greater Nashville area. Some are high on some items and not so much on others. That is why people price shop. I know I can buy my firearms at certain places for the best deals, .40 ammo at certain places and .22 ammo at other places and come out on top. People seem to be mad at the end users for pricing but for the most part I think it is the distributors that cause the fluctuation in pricing. Many times there can be a substantial difference in pricing at two different gunstores that run the same % mark up because they bought the items for different prices from different distributors or buy in different quantities. Such is life. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Yep, or buy from the same distributor at two different times. What chaps my butt is how gas prices shoot up with this logic but then come back down slowly using the same logic. That makes no sense, but I don't go slamming the gas station on the Interwebs for it.

[LagerHead]

So in another thread about a gun shop in Tennessee I once again saw people getting their panties in a wad and publicly complain about that business selling something at MSRP. In this case it was .22 ammo, but it really doesn't matter what in the heck it is. I find it ironic that on a forum dedicated to people exercising their rights that some of said people would complain about some businessperson exercising their right to charge what the market will bear. Are they saying that they believe in their rights being preserved but it's unreasonable for a businessperson to exercise their rights to set the price on their product/service? What if these people want to sell something of theirs...should their price be dependent on what a group of other people think is reasonable? If I could sell a pencil to someone who's willing to pay a million dollars for it do I not have the right to do so without a bunch of people bad-mouthing me on the Interwebs?

 

Just this last Saturday I went to a large, and relatively new, gun shop in Nashville who are also one of TGO's sponsors. I was with my wife and adult daughter looking for a handgun that everyone could use in a pinch and that would still have enough power to punch, (my wife has teeny hands). We settled on a M&P .40 Shield that the store had a $444.99 price tag on it. I asked the employee if that was their best price on the weapon to which he answered to the affirmative. I told him I wanted to noodle over it, and then I whipped-out my cell phone to check prices online. They were over-priced compared to online, (yes, taking into account the venue and transfers fees and such), so I told the employee that they were over-priced, thanked him for his time, and then we left. I ended up at my local gun store that had the same weapon for $399.99. Guess who got my business? I may even go back and get another weapon for myself.

 

No business will be successful charging more than the market will bear for a product, nor will they be successful giving crap away, so why do some feel the need to try and destroy a business online? I don't get it. :(

 

The part I put in bold is the important part here, in my not-so-humble opinion. Both the left and the right, Democrats and Republicans, want THEIR morals enforced by the government, but damn you if you try and reverse it on them. 

 

I think the tone of the other threads is about the level of ethics in gouging. I think capitalism is the best system any country has ever seen but when a few really take advantage of what is going on, they seem like those folks that buy as much 22 ammo as they can just to resell it at extreme prices. Taking advantage is not a good quality imo. 

 

A 15 dollar product that is marked up to 45 just because there is a bit of panic in the air is beyond bad business in my eyes. The key is if you feel like you got a good deal and are happy with the transaction. Personally I like to support my local shops but I do have limits with what I'm willing to pay.  

 

You are making the argument for capitalism, but then complaining when people practice it. In truth, if two people agree on a price and neither is coerced or forced to enter into the agreement, how can that possibly be classified as gouging? There is not a product in the world (that is not priced controlled through the government) that isn't sold for what the market will bear. Because someone will charge less than what the market will bear doesn't make them a saint. And because someone does charge what the market will bear doesn't make them the devil. In fact, there are often other factors at play that affect the cost of doing business, and therefore the price of the commodity. 

 

Didn't see the thread you referenced, but I think sensitivities are really up with regards to 22 ammo. Nobody likes to be taken advantage of, and a lot of people feel that is what is happening with it. You hit the nail on the head, too high, don't buy. Otherwise it will continue. These guys who are gouging continue to do so because someone is paying their prices.

Free market cuts both ways.

 

Bravo!

 

It's all about ethics.  If I chose not to shop somewhere because they are gouging customers it's not because I'm protesting capitalism, it's because I'm protesting that business owner being a d***.  He has the right to screw his customers and his customers have the right to shop elsewhere.    

 

How is one guy screwing his customer? By asking a price that the customer is willing to pay? Seems to me it takes two to tango. 

 

Or is he forcing anyone who walks in through the doors to buy his ammo at the "inflated" price? That would be a different scenario altogether. 

[Mike A]

I don't think I've seen anyone on any of these threads espousing the belief that merchants should be prohibited from selling their goods and services for whatever they want.  That's capitalism.  Capitalism is also consumers using their dollars to determine which businesses succeed and encouraging others to do the same.

 

When the LGS I frequent has .22 these days,  they charge more than I'm willing to pay at this time.  Having done pretty regular business with them for a couple years I have little doubt that they're pricing their ammo according to their acquisition costs and the profit margin they need to maintain.  If I felt otherwise, I'd not darken their door again.       

[10-Ring]

So if someone's willing to buy my pencil for a million dollars I would be a d***?

Say you have been selling that same pencil for years for $1, all of the sudden the pencil becomes scarce and there are stupid people out there convinced and willing that they should buy all of the pencils that they can get their hands on even if they cost $1 million a piece.  Before this panic hit you were getting the pencils wholesale for $0.50 and you were happy selling them for $1.  At this point you decide to charge more money for the same product just because you can, yep that's being a d***, not to mention taking advantage of your customers.  A good business man will take care of his customers.  A business man who doesn't take care of his customers will not be a business man for long. 

 

 

How is one guy screwing his customer? By asking a price that the customer is willing to pay? Seems to me it takes two to tango. 

 

Or is he forcing anyone who walks in through the doors to buy his ammo at the "inflated" price? That would be a different scenario altogether. 

I don't see that anyone is being forced to do anything.  And yes it does take two to tango that's why I despise the people that pay inflated prices just as much as much as I despise the ones selling it at inflated prices.  For the record I refuse to pay more than $30 per 500 for .22 and I have plenty for me and mine, most of which I have acquired since Newtown.  I could normally care less about what stupid people do but when their actions affect what I pay for ammo I start to care.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

You are making the argument for capitalism, but then complaining when people practice it. In truth, if two people agree on a price and neither is coerced or forced to enter into the agreement, how can that possibly be classified as gouging? There is not a product in the world (that is not priced controlled through the government) that isn't sold for what the market will bear. Because someone will charge less than what the market will bear doesn't make them a saint. And because someone does charge what the market will bear doesn't make them the devil. In fact, there are often other factors at play that affect the cost of doing business, and therefore the price of the commodity.

 

Am not making a moral statement, just observation that there are many pricing strategies. "What the market will bear" is one strategy, which seems common nowadays. Dunno if it was more or less common in the past.

 

Ye olde "engineering job shop" pricing strategy is very old as well, maybe fallen out of fashion lately or maybe not. Calculate what a gadget costs to make, add a nominal profit figure, and you sell the gadget if customers can afford the price.

 

I don't think any pricing strategy should be enforced by law, but am old fashioned enough to appreciate the cost plus approach. What goes around comes around

[E4 No More]

Say you have been selling that same pencil for years for $1, all of the sudden the pencil becomes scarce and there are stupid people out there convinced and willing that they should buy all of the pencils that they can get their hands on even if they cost $1 million a piece.  Before this panic hit you were getting the pencils wholesale for $0.50 and you were happy selling them for $1.  At this point you decide to charge more money for the same product just because you can, yep that's being a d***, not to mention taking advantage of your customers.  A good business man will take care of his customers.  A business man who doesn't take care of his customers will not be a business man for long. 

 

I don't see that anyone is being forced to do anything.  And yes it does take two to tango that's why I despise the people that pay inflated prices just as much as much as I despise the ones selling it at inflated prices.  For the record I refuse to pay more than $30 per 500 for .22 and I have plenty for me and mine, most of which I have acquired since Newtown.  I could normally care less about what stupid people do but when their actions affect what I pay for ammo I start to care.

I don't see how I'd be the d*** here. Am I forcing the person to pay me a million dollars for a pencil? Isn't the agreement between me and the seller? What do YOU have to do with it? Am I forcing you to buy the pencil? If you sell something of your own do you allow someone else to decide what a fair price is for your possession?

[Oh Shoot]

... Yes, I am immoral when I shop, but hey thats the cost of doing business. :yuck:

 

My bucks are pretty much immoral also. I'm one of the few who will admit that I'll still buy from CTD if the price is right. If their business model succeeds (and looks like it has just fine), good for them I reckon, and good for me if I get a good deal from them while shunning them when I can't.

 

I'm also still using FireFox, Google, carry a Moonie gun daily, and shop at Walmart regularly.

 

- OS

[runco]

My bucks are pretty much immoral also. I'm one of the few who will admit that I'll still buy from CTD if the price is right. If their business model succeeds (and looks like it has just fine), good for them I reckon, and good for me if I get a good deal from them while shunning them when I can't.

 

I'm also still using FireFox, Google, carry a Moonie gun daily, and shop at Walmart regularly.

 

- OS

I will likely shop at CTD again someday, but it must be the only game in town, and no one can match their delivered price.  I will go to the ends of the earth (or whatever I search on the internet, whichever is easier) to find a better deal than CTD. 

[10-Ring]

I don't see how I'd be the d*** here. Am I forcing the person to pay me a million dollars for a pencil? Isn't the agreement between me and the seller? What do YOU have to do with it? Am I forcing you to buy the pencil? If you sell something of your own do you allow someone else to decide what a fair price is for your possession?

Because you are taking advantage of your customer.  Not that I would feel bad for a customer that isn't willing to do their homework.  The right thing to do will be subjective to each individual, I think it's clear that you and I have a different idea about what the right thing to do here is.  I'm looking at this scenario from the standpoint of a consumer and that is all.  As a consumer I would not shop at any establishment that had a history of price gouging.  I'm sure others here feel the same way.  When it boils down to it a seller can do as they please but when they make questionable calls they may loose business over it.  I'm completely in favor of capitalism and with it things like this happen, fortunately thanks to capitalism I'm free to go shop somewhere else as well. 

[E4 No More]

Because you are taking advantage of your customer.  Not that I would feel bad for a customer that isn't willing to do their homework.  The right thing to do will be subjective to each individual, I think it's clear that you and I have a different idea about what the right thing to do here is.  I'm looking at this scenario from the standpoint of a consumer and that is all.  As a consumer I would not shop at any establishment that had a history of price gouging.  I'm sure others here feel the same way.  When it boils down to it a seller can do as they please but when they make questionable calls they may loose business over it.  I'm completely in favor of capitalism and with it things like this happen, fortunately thanks to capitalism I'm free to go shop somewhere else as well. 

Yes, but you appear to advocate that you are the one entitled to judge whether someone is price-gouging or not. IMHO, that's ok for your own determination as to whether you'd do business with me or not, but not ok if you got on the Interwebs and talk disparagingly about my business, trying to trash my reputation, and destroy my business because pricing is not in line to what you think it should be like some are doing on this forum.

Edited April 7, 2014 by SWJewellTN