FFL problems

[Guest warangel]

I had a lower sent to a local FFL dealer three months ago. The dealer has my lower but won't give it to me. The dealer has continually stated that TICs is down and he can't run the background. I know he's lying because I've bought several other firearms from other locations in the same time period. What can I do?

[TripleDigitRide]

Call the police?

[Oh Shoot]

Gotta be more to the story?

 

If not, call your regional BATF field office, something will likely give in a hurry.

 

- OS

Edited April 4, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[TripleDigitRide]

Who is the FFL?

[wileecoyote]

Go there in person at least one hour before he closes, without him expecting you. Ask to see your lower, to confirm he does have it. Wait around a while to see if he is selling other guns and calling them in. If he says the website is down tell him to use the phone to call it in. Let him know you aren't leaving without it. If he cannot produce your lower and you have proof that he received it, if he refuses to complete the transfer via web or phone, or otherwise makes any excuses... tell him you are going to call the local TBI, BATF, and BBB offices to file complaints. Have those numbers with you and call from his place of business if needed. Make sure you have your purchase receipt, proof of shipment being received by him, and your TN state ID with you. And take your cell phone and use it to record your entire visit so you will have audio evidence if needed. Edited April 4, 2014 by wileecoyote

[Metalhead]

TBI is off two holiday's - Christmas and Thanksgiving iirc. They have been down in the last for months like once. For an hour or two.

[Troutburger]

Yeah that doesn't pass the bs test. The problem is highly unlikely to be with tics. Now he maybe behind on his payments to tics, and they cut off his account. But tics outages are measured in hours not days nor months.

[TrickyNicky]

Is this a home based FFL or brick and mortar?

[Dustbuster]

come see me, ill let you borrow a personal small covert video recorder, just go in and tell him youre there to pick it up and record the whole transaction. Then call the pd, let them come out and take a report,and or go to the DA's office and tell them you want to take out a warrant against the FFL. If they refuse, get him indicted on your own through the local grand jury when they convene. You'll have to figure out what to have him charged with by doing a little homework.theft by deception is a good place to start....me no lawyer, me no give you legal advice, just opinion based on experience.PM me if you still need help my offer stands

[Guest warangel]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will give him one final chance tomorrow before contacting the BATF.

If it comes to me contacting the BATF I'll let you know who it is so you hopefully won't have the same problem. Until then I'd hate to say anything as I'd hate to badmouth anyone.

[vontar]

wow,

 

Question, Is there anything special about this lower?  Can you think of any reason he might be wanting to hold on to it?

 

I am betting it is a home run business.

[runco]

Don't see how this is any different if you were to buy something say at Walmart, you pay, and the cashier refuses to give you your goods.  Who would you call?  I would call local law enforcement and report a theft! 

[TrickyNicky]

Don't see how this is any different if you were to buy something say at Walmart, you pay, and the cashier refuses to give you your goods. Who would you call? I would call local law enforcement and report a theft!

I would call corporate office. Guaranteed quicker resolution. ;)


@6.8

Nothing at all against home based FFLs. Just wondering. Edited April 5, 2014 by TrickyNicky

[Garufa]

Nothing wrong home home based FFL's but this whole thing sounds kinda shady to begin with. 

 

I wonder what happened to a certain somebody's transfer business in the Nashville area when things didn't work out as expected for the former FFL holder?  Point being, if one suddenly looses the FFL and has inventory and the property of others on hand what happens?

[vontar]

Y'all have something against home based FFL's? I've never had a problem with a couple of them. If the guy lost his license for some

reason, wherever he is, he should send it back to be resubmitted, and, at least he should tell you. But it could be either kind of

business. The worst time I had with one wasn't a problem at all. He was at work for a couple days and asked if I could come at a certain

time. Nothing wrong with that. I got good service out of him, and he was half liberal. :D

 

If that isn't the problem, go in like Dustbuster said and threaten the guy. At least you'll find out that way.

 

 

No, nothing wrong with home based. 

 

I have dealt with 2 home based FFL's.  One I was going to use, I had everything almost setup.  I called back to confirm some detail and couldn't get it back on the phone for over a week.  The week it was suppose to be shipped. 

The other one, smooth as butter.  I agree it could happen at any business.

[Smith]

Don't see how this is any different if you were to buy something say at Walmart, you pay, and the cashier refuses to give you your goods.  Who would you call?  I would call local law enforcement and report a theft! 

It's different in that the lower is now technically the property of the receiving FFL. That is why it has to be transferred. They literally transfer ownership form the originating FFL, to the receiving FFL, and then to the customer. So local LE probably couldn't do anything with it. Just because you paid money for it, doesn't mean you can't take ownership of it till you pass the background check and it is transferred to you. 

 

This is why a reputable FFL is a good thing since they are the middle man acting in good faith. ;)

[runco]

It's different in that the lower is now technically the property of the receiving FFL. That is why it has to be transferred. They literally transfer ownership form the originating FFL, to the receiving FFL, and then to the customer. So local LE probably couldn't do anything with it. Just because you paid money for it, doesn't mean you can't take ownership of it till you pass the background check and it is transferred to you. 

 

This is why a reputable FFL is a good thing since they are the middle man acting in good faith. ;)

Technically the property of the receiving FFL? 

 

I don't think so, the gun shop may be a gate keeper of the property, or holding the firearm like a escrow.  A good litmus test is assume the FFL is at the end of their business fiscal year, and had to do physical inventory for tax purposes, this lower is on site.  They will not inventory this item because they do not own it, they did not use their funds to acquire it, therefore will be excluded from inventory books.  This receiver is 100% the ownership of the buyer, he just can not take possession of it until the 4473 form has been completed and approved. 

 

Now if he had purchased this item at this FFL, that is a different matter.

[teecro]

In my opinion there is way too much info missing from this story to make any real determination about it.

 

As for myself if "I" was being jerked around unjustly over a lower I'd burn his name into everyones memory cards with no hesitation whatsoever.....

[Smith]

Technically the property of the receiving FFL?

I don't think so, the gun shop may be a gate keeper of the property, or holding the firearm like a escrow. A good litmus test is assume the FFL is at the end of their business fiscal year, and had to do physical inventory for tax purposes, this lower is on site. They will not inventory this item because they do not own it, they did not use their funds to acquire it, therefore will be excluded from inventory books. This receiver is 100% the ownership of the buyer, he just can not take possession of it until the 4473 form has been completed and approved.

Now if he had purchased this item at this FFL, that is a different matter.

They will inventory it since when it comes into the a&d log it is in inventory already. It just won't have a cost associated with it. It is the ownership of whoever the a&d log had it transferred to. Most folks do not know this is the case.
If you fail your background check, then technically the gun is owned by the receiving ffl.

[runco]

They will inventory it since when it comes into the a&d log it is in inventory already. It just won't have a cost associated with it. It is the ownership of whoever the a&d log had it transferred to. Most folks do not know this is the case.
If you fail your background check, then technically the gun is owned by the receiving ffl.

Make sure you know that I am talking about two inventories.  One for the bound book, and the other for merchandise inventory tracking for tax purposes.  Additionally, do you care to cite federal or state code that substantiates your argument? 

 

I still do not believe the FFL "owns" the property.  I contend the FFL is just a temporary holder or custodian of the item until the 4473 is executed.  This does not make the FFL the owner of the property.  If the buyer should fail the background, one would think the options to the owner of item even though they are not legally allowed to possess the item would be as follows: 

A.)  Pay the receiving FFL for his normal fee, and have the item returned to the seller at the buyer's expense for a full or partial refund;

B.)  Assuming no returns are allowed by the seller, the buyer can sell the item to the receiving FFL if an agreement can be met;

C.)  Cosign the item into the receiving FFL inventory for normal selling in the receiving FFL store if an agreement can be met;

D.)  Have the item transferred to a different  FFL of the buyer's choosing less fees, shipping, etc. for sell in the other FFL store;

E.)  Forfeit the item to the receiving FFL.

[DaveTN]

I disagree that it’s a civil situation. An FFL transfer is not an element of ownership or theft. He paid for it and he owns it. If the FFL can’t transfer it or he doesn’t pass the background check; it goes back to the shipper for a refund.

Although, I agree something here isn’t right. Background check isn’t an issue as it hasn’t been done. We will see.