Polymer lowers now "illegal"

[TNMTBik3r]

Right on the heels on the 5.45 ban talk, now a letter stating that PlumCrazy polymer lowers are illegal. I do not see any difference in how the serials are implanted on the metal strip with these compared to other receivers I have seen (including pistols).

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/30/plumcrazy-polymer-lowers-illegal-letter-batfe/

 

Also, look at the pictures the ATF provided....does it match this statement? "Firearms Technology Branch technicians were able to remove the PlumCrazy serial number using just a hammer and a screwdriver in just one minute and without doing any damage to the receiver."

Edited March 31, 2014 by jonathon1289

[TNMTBik3r]

Right on the heels on the 5.45 ban talk, now a letter stating that PlumCrazy polymer lowers are illegal. 

 

Just realized that the article states the letter is from June 2013. This is the first I have heard/seen concerning it though.

[RichardR]

Right on the heels on the 5.45 ban talk, now a letter stating that PlumCrazy polymer lowers are illegal. I do not see any difference in how the serials are implanted on the metal strip with these compared to other receivers I have seen (including pistols).

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/30/plumcrazy-polymer-lowers-illegal-letter-batfe/

Also, look at the pictures the ATF provided....does it match this statement? "

Firearms Technology Branch technicians were able to remove the PlumCrazy serial number using just a hammer and a screwdriver in just one minute and without doing any damage to the receiver."

Wow!?! Really?!?

Serial numbers can be obliterated on any firearm "in just one minute" by anyone who desires to do so with a dremel tool or hammer & chisel or any other common tool that could mark/mar metal ...

This is bullshit, absolute bullshit.

[TripleDigitRide]

So, if anyone currently owns a PlumCrazy lower, they are in violation of federal law and can be punished?

[gregintenn]

Couldn't the same be said of most, if not all polymer pistols?

[TNMTBik3r]

Couldn't the same be said of most, if not all polymer pistols?

That is my thought, if their position is the serial could be too easily removed, well that applies to any weapon, not just polymer. If there is a desire to remove the serial, it will be accomplished.

[TrickyNicky]

I think you all are missing what OP had in bold.

If the issue is that a number can be removed essentially without a trace of there having been one, that may be the issue in itself. Maybe they're worried that people could swap numbers or even have their own tags made up.

Still pretty dumb, but I don't think its a case of any removable serial number being a problem.

[RichardR]

I think you all are missing what OP had in bold.

If the issue is that a number can be removed essentially without a trace of there having been one, that may be the issue in itself. Maybe they're worried that people could swap numbers or even have their own tags made up.

Still pretty dumb, but I don't think its a case of any removable serial number being a problem.

It's the standard that is being applied that is absolutely absurd & it could be applied to any other firearm ever manufactured ... so potentially every single firearm in the United States which could have their serial numbers obliterated "in one minute with hand tools" fails to meet that ridged standard.

I don't trust poly lowers, never have even thought about owning a poly lower since the Carbon-15 fiasco, but this is beyond stupid, this is potentially serious trouble as they go down the list invalidating the legality of this model & that model, which ever they want it applied to essentually,

[TNMTBik3r]

My quote with the part in bold was strictly to draw attention to the statement that the serial number was removed with no damage, but those pics show a receiver that is mangled. Not sure why it has been destroyed like that, just thought it was a hilarious comment.

However, removing the serial plate really did not cause any further damage which is the point being made.

[RichardR]

My quote with the part in bold was strictly to draw attention to the statement that the serial number was removed with no damage, but those pics show a receiver that is mangled. Not sure why it has been destroyed like that, just thought it was a hilarious comment.
However, removing the serial plate really did not cause any further damage which is the point being made.

Yea it appeared pretty mangled, I was less concerned about that particular reciever or even PlumCrazy recievers in general than I am the potential for this "new standard" being applied to other brands & types of firearms though, because I can't think of any brand or model of firearm that has ever been manufactured that could pass that ridged of a test standard.

[Troutburger]

Give me a dremel and I can take the Ssn off of anything...

[whitewolf001]

Pretty much how I imagine the guys whom review these standings concerning what IS or ISN'T illegal...

[TrickyNicky]

It's the standard that is being applied that is absolutely absurd & it could be applied to any other firearm ever manufactured ... so potentially every single firearm in the United States which could have their serial numbers obliterated "in one minute with hand tools" fails to meet that ridged standard.
I don't trust poly lowers, never have even thought about owning a poly lower since the Carbon-15 fiasco, but this is beyond stupid, this is potentially serious trouble as they go down the list invalidating the legality of this model & that model, which ever they want it applied to essentually,

I agree it makes about as much sense as a screen door in a submarine, but I still don't think you get it. Of course any firearm can have its serial number removed, but in most cases it's going to leave a mark, blemish, scratch, SOMETHING. If these serialized plates were popping off with a minor amount of gentle prying than I can at least understand how that might be a problem.

As to the pics in the article I simply can't believe that damage was caused by them peeling what essentially amounts to an industrial sticker. What caused it, don't know, but I'd bet even money it wasn't them prying up the serialized plate.

[K191145]

Give me a dremel and I can take the Ssn off of anything...

I saw some forensic show once where they took a gun with a "STAMPED" serial number that had been ground off, smoothed it off some more and applied some kind of acid that brought out the serial number. Something about stamping imprint goes through all of the metal.

[nightrunner]

I saw some forensic show once where they took a gun with a "STAMPED" serial number that had been ground off, smoothed it off some more and applied some kind of acid that brought out the serial number. Something about stamping imprint goes through all of the metal.

Dont believe everything you see on CSI. Majority of the cool stuff on there might be available to CIA or the like but not to city cops doing forensics.

[whitewolf001]

Dont believe everything you see on CSI. Majority of the cool stuff on there might be available to CIA or the like but not to city cops doing forensics.

 

You do realize there are shows, similar to the 'First 48', aside from drama's such as CSI that show real world forensic tech?

[nightrunner]

You do realize there are shows, similar to the 'First 48', aside from drama's such as CSI that show real world forensic tech?

Yes, but I saw the exact scenario he described on CSI: Las Vegas.

[Chucktshoes]

Y'all are getting lost in the weeds on an inconsequential detail. The lower in the photo is no longer a firearm. It has been cut up and rendered wholly inoperable before the serial number plate was photographed being removed. 

[K191145]

Dont believe everything you see on CSI. Majority of the cool stuff on there might be available to CIA or the like but not to city cops doing forensics.

 

I don't watch that show, the only cop show I watch now is Criminal Minds. I saw this technique on a real forensic documentry. Stamping metal will leave an impact imprint pretty deep.

[TrickyNicky]

I don't watch that show, the only cop show I watch now is Criminal Minds. I saw this technique on a real forensic documentry. Stamping metal will leave an impact imprint pretty deep.

Its fairly old tech as well. I remember reading about using acids and magnets to recover serial numbers in one of my dads books when I was a kid pouring over small arms books in his office.

[K191145]

Its fairly old tech as well. I remember reading about using acids and magnets to recover serial numbers in one of my dads books when I was a kid pouring over small arms books in his office.

 

Here's one artical I found.

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Forensic-Ballistics---Recovering-Hidden-Serial-Numbers-From-Firearms&id=917211

 

I guess especially on a gun where the metal is not very thick the "deformation" will go all the way through. I'm sure that wont work for serial numbers that are etched.

[Guest semiautots]

A lot of manufacturers are engraving, rather than stamping the serial numbers.  I bought a PWS recently and it is engraved.