BREAKING Better buy all the 5.45 you can find

[Superman]

Seeing as how 5.45 7n6 doesnt meet the criteria for AP ammo, it shouldnt matter if everyone is making 5.45 pistols.

[Garufa]

Seeing as how 5.45 7n6 doesnt meet the criteria for AP ammo, it shouldnt matter if everyone is making 5.45 pistols.

 

That might be so but is the excuse being given.

[Superman]

If its true

 

[Garufa]

If its true

 

 

Half of a printed email is certainly not much evidence but unless the ammo vendors are in cahoots and just lying about what they've been told (Copes and AIM) then it might just be true.  Doesn't really matter now, the damage is done.

[TNMTBik3r]

I assume AIM and Copes would ask the appropriate questions on the call...but right now there is a chance it is a misunderstanding from someone in the BATF talking out their ass. Right now no ban, just a delay on the import paperwork (from all I have read).
Some of the pistols in question have been manufactured for 3+? years. All of the home built pistols have not been an issue.
JBI Armory
Robs Armory
Black Horse Arsenal

[DMark]

Didn't this AK74 Pistol topic pop up a couple of years ago and there was a run on 5.45X39 at that time also.

 

I swear this sounds like something that came up during the first Barry Hussein panic.     

 

Or did I just buy all of those 1080 round cans just for the Hell-of-It in order to buy cheap and stack deep.  :shrug:

[Garufa]

Didn't this AK74 Pistol topic pop up a couple of years ago and there was a run on 5.45X39 at that time also.

 

I swear this sounds like something that came up during the first Barry Hussein panic.     

 

Or did I just buy all of those 1080 round cans just for the Hell-of-It in order to buy cheap and stack deep.  :shrug:

 

I don't know because I've never payed much attention to that caliber or what's going on with it.  I do know that someone in the Nashville area was planning on making 5.45x39 pistols before his shenanigans got the best of him.

[Oh Shoot]

A few days ago a WOLF spokesman said this is an internet hoax; has that changed?
This does not impact me as I don’t buy any foreign ammo, but if this is a hoax those that do buy it will pay dearly.

 

Different issue. The various new manufacture Russian 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 is lead core, not steel, just has a steel jacket with copper wash over that.  There have been AR and AK pistols around forever, hasn't affected the supply of the Russian bi-metal stuff.

 

Wolf for example does distribute 5.45x39 normal bi-metal stuff, but this ban shouldn't affect that, it's all about the surplus steel core stuff. Which according to some folks I've read was running pretty low already anyway, dunno.

 

- OS

Edited March 30, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[DMark]

..... I do know that someone in the Nashville area was planning on making 5.45x39 pistols before his shenanigans got the best of him.

 

Was it the guy who was building those short barrel 870 pumps as Any Other Weapons? 

 

And......

 

To Get Back On Topic - - - THIS THREAD NEEDS A PICTURE!!!!!

 

Here is my AK-74 with some of that evil 5.45X39 loaded up into those wicked 30 round mags that we have been talking about.  This is one of the $399 "Truck Guns" that TGI was selling back in 2009 right after they got into a fix with the ATF over the import (by mistake) of some full auto AK flats.

 

 

Got to love that Soviet "Plum" stock, forearm, and mag.  I have found a matching grip since this photo was taken. 

[austin7.62]

Was it the guy who was building those short barrel 870 pumps as Any Other Weapons? 
 
And......
 
To Get Back On Topic - - - THIS THREAD NEEDS A PICTURE!!!!!
 
Here is my AK-74 with some of that evil 5.45X39 loaded up into those wicked 30 round mags that we have been talking about.  This is one of the $399 "Truck Guns" that TGI was selling back in 2009 right after they got into a fix with the ATF over the import (by mistake) of some full auto AK flats.
 

 
Got to love that Soviet "Plum" stock, forearm, and mag.  I have found a matching grip since this photo was taken.

Very nice. Those were one of the best deals on AK74s ever. Can't beat that deal. Shoot, the barrel alone would sell for over $200 today

[JohnC]

There are a heck of a lot more of us than there is of them. Pick your them.
 
If we all had sense and stood up on our own hind legs with our courts and our legislatures and our properly chosen executives, we wouldn't have to put up with this crap and could return to a documented constitutionally ordered government once again.

If only.... So sick of this bullshit!

As a side note, right now Feinstein is trying to get Obama to sign an EO to the BATF to ban importation of imported assault rifles, parts, etc.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/77469-contact-your-senators-to-stop-feinsteins-proposed-semi-auto-firearm-importation-ban/

[DMark]

Very nice. Those were one of the best deals on AK74s ever. Can't beat that deal. Shoot, the barrel alone would sell for over $200 today

 

The wood on mine was beat-to-hell, but the metal finish was good and the original chrome-lined Bulgarian barrel looked to be NOS.

 

Finding the Soviet era plum stock set as a replacement was a minor victory since those have now become hard to find.  It took me a couple of years to locate a matching Tula shiny plum pistol grip.

 

AIM had AK-74 mags that had been painted in some sort of thick black paint.  Somebody figured out that stripping them with Citristrip Gel would not hurt them.  Some of the ones I did still had the inked Soviet inspection stamps.  There were a mix of both Russian and Bulgarian mags coming from AIM back then, you didn't know what you had until the paint was stripped off. 

 

 

I would have to look up to be sure, but I think the 1080 round tins of Russian 5.45 were going for around $120 back in 2009/2010.  That led to a lot of AR uppers being build in 5.45.  The stuff I got was all late 80s production and being Soviet era it has corrosive primers.   

[R1100R]

I bought some of those a while back, but they do not have metal reinforcements on the locking lug or tab...

 

They are still great mags for $15 compared to $45. I have had no issues.

[173rdABN]

I'm all about Tapco mags in mines. Only had one jam in the last 2 tins I've shot. And it was the case the got stuck in the chamber after being fired, I'll contribute that to a bad round. Mags are mags to me. If they work, they work. 

 

My AK74 is on a NodakSpud receiver. Made by CAI. It's solid as heck, and I love it. Cost me $400 even back in 2012.

[Ugly]

None have had the disdain as the community agitator. Bush did limit some imports to placate but what he did to the constitution is unmistakeable.

[NashvilleStage]

Interesting, seeing the similar wailing & gnashing of teeth a few years ago:

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/144610_Surplus_5_45X39_.html

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105071

 

Regarding whoever made the straw that broke the camel's back, they're not ultimately the bad guy; the ATF & their oppressive rules are. We don't need to be shooting our own; The ATF does that well enough *without* our help.

 

We should take our outrage at the situation & direct it squarely at the problem: the poorly-made rules from the ATF.

 

As an aside, are they even actual laws, or just rules that the ATF made up?

[Oh Shoot]

 

As an aside, are they even actual laws, or just rules that the ATF made up?

 

Interpretation of federal statutes regarding armor piercing in 18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions and 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

 

Probably something about it in CFR somewhere too, not sure.

 

- OS

[Superman]

We need to convince the .gov that if it isnt allowed to be imported and shot up at the range then it will get sold to Afghanistan, Syria, etc. where it will get turned over to Alqaeda and used against us. Or maybe thats what they want.

[Garufa]

We need to convince the .gov that if it isnt allowed to be imported and shot up at the range then it will get sold to Afghanistan, Syria, etc. where it will get turned over to Alqaeda and used against us. Or maybe thats what they want.

 

The .gov has already bought tremendous amounts of surplus combloc ammo to supply the Afghans and Iraqis.  I'm sure it's all being used appropriately.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Garufa

[Superman]

http://www.change.org/petitions/bureau-of-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives-reopen-importation-of-the-russsian-military-surplus-7n6?recruiter=56015123&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

[KKing]

[quote name="Superman" post="1132234" timestamp="1396232359"][url="http://www.change.org/petitions/bureau-of-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives-reopen-importation-of-the-russsian-military-surplus-7n6?recruiter=56015123&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition"]http://www.change.org/petitions/bureau-of-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives-reopen-importation-of-the-russsian-military-surplus-7n6?recruiter=56015123&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition[/url][/quote] Not that I want to piss on your enthusiasm by any means, but I'm afraid those things go absolutely nowhere. I should know that I can never rest easy with my ammo stash. It's annoying not being able to enjoy the hobby you love for fear of pen strokes from oppressors

[NashvilleStage]

Seeing as how 5.45 7n6 doesnt meet the criteria for AP ammo...

 

As much as I hate to say it... strictly speaking, the law *does* seem to cover 7N6 as armor-piercing:

 

 

Per http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2012-title18/html/USCODE-2012-title18-partI-chap44-sec921.htm

(emphasis mine)

 

"(17)( B )

The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

 

The argument that some are providing where the bullet is slightly less than .22 caliber doesn't hold weight, because of the "or" at the end of section (i).

 

I thought (apparently erroneously) that 7N6 had a mild steel (not hardened steel) core similar to the mil-surp 7.62x54r, and couldn't actually pierce armor regardless of the poorly written definition above. However, I just found this:

 

 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm#Enhanced_penetration_cartridges:

"The 7N6 bullet has a 1.43 g (22.1 gr) steel rod penetrator. Since 1987 this penetrator is hardened to 60 HRC. The latter 7N6 cartridge can penetrate a 6 mm thick St3 steel plate at 300 m and 6Zh85T body armour at 80 m. 7N6 bullets have a red identification ring above the cartridge neck."

 

Also see http://books.google.com/books?id=afqC2T8zPAsC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=5n7+bullet&source=bl&ots=Rjo1BmllMa&sig=fOLyX-3g8TVNzlyhOA_DKR5f36Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=--E4U6LOGoS-2AXg6YCABw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=5n7%20bullet&f=false

 

and http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?344515-5-45X39&p=2854782#post2854782

 

 

The original *5N7* bullet was of the same construction, but had a mild steel core instead of the hardened steel core of the 7N6. Even then, it would still fall under the USC 921 definition of armor-piercing because of the steel core.

Edited March 31, 2014 by NashvilleStage

[Superman]

Not that I want to piss on your enthusiasm by any means, but I'm afraid those things go absolutely nowhere. I should know that I can never rest easy with my ammo stash. It's annoying not being able to enjoy the hobby you love for fear of pen strokes from oppressors

It certainly isn't going to hurt or make it worse. We can't see back and do nothing.

[TNMTBik3r]

Found some available!.....    :rofl:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=405810363

Edited April 1, 2014 by jonathon1289

[QuietDan]

Found some available!.....    :rofl:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=405810363

 

Voldemort . . .