MY PERSONAL PATH AWAY FROM THE 1911: Hilton Yam

[dcloudy777]

I'm pretty sure John Moses would approve of the Glock. If JMB would have lived another 20 years, do you think that design would have remained static? 

 

He would have hated the grip angle.  :pleased:

[timcalhoun]

I'm pretty sure John Moses would approve of the Glock. If JMB would have lived another 20 years, do you think that design would have remained static? 

 

Well, before we all get all warm and fuzzy about Gaston, you might want to actually look at JMB Hi-Power design. You see the Hi-power that we know is not the Hi-power that John designed at all. Colt still held the 1911 patents when John started the Hi-Power, and had to design a completely new gun. Right after john submitted the new gun for the patent (1923), he died (1926). FN gave the project over to the designer of the magazine to be used in the gun, a fellow named Saive. In 1926 the 1911 patents expired and Saive incorporated a great deal from the 1911. So, while the Hi-Power has John written all over it, we really can't consider it "his" design.

 

John's Hi-Power was striker fired, had a locked breech face, and the barrel came in and out of battery in a way that glock owners will recognize immediately.

 

We all stand on the shoulders of giants, its just that so many gun designers stand on John's. ;-)

 

Check it out:

https://www.google.com/patents/US1618510?dq=john+m+browning+patents&hl=en&sa=X&ei=u5M5U6_IGuGlsATulIHYBA&ved=0CGYQ6AEwBzgK

[mikegideon]

Lots of pistol designs stole something from Browning. 

[Jonnin]

Reliability issues are just not a valid complaint.  I could take a glock, gut it, and put in bubba joe's  home-made hand milled parts and make it unreliable.  I could stick cheap no-name brand mags in it and have issues.  I could get an offbrand clone that fails if someone made such a thing (atm no one as actually copied a glock to my knowledge, oddly, give it time).  I mean, I own one of the most reliable guns ever made, the makarov.  And I actually did put in a hand made part that we machined for it.  And it screwed the gun up immediately... so makarovs must not be any good after all?

 

 

He is not completely wrong.  The classic 1911 is a heavy beast with a low capacity, and no one argues that.   Many modern guns are well designed, no one argues that either.   Give me the same # of manufacturers making spare parts, modifications, and clones of glock and TRY to tell me that SOME of those will not be total garbage....  that not a defensible position.   You get 50 manufacturers making stuff that is of varying degrees of quality and may or may not all fit together right, you will get messed up machines.   AR has the same issues, ever heard someone having trouble with a thrown together from parts AR?   Or a cheap brand AR that has issues?  Think about it.  

 

If his main issue is the unreliable junk pistols that are out there, then he is making a change for the wrong reason.  If his issue is the whole package (heavy, low cap, expensive, etc) then sure, there are options to get more bang for the buck, so to speak.

[whiterx]

Not to detract from the topic but this has to be the most civilized 1911 vs plastic gun debate I've ever read. 

[thescoutranch]

Not to detract from the topic but this has to be the most civilized 1911 vs plastic gun debate I've ever read. 

+1

Epp

[kwe45919]

I grew up on revolvers and my uncle had an old war  Colt 1911 handed down to him. It rattled when you shook it no lie but it never failed to shoot. I know I took out many a JFG coffee cans along with various biscuit and flour boxes and no telling how many times it was actually shot before I had it in my hands at 12yrs old. It's what headed me down the 1911 road. When time came to purchase that faith full carry piece, I was drawn to 1911's. I ended up choosing a Kimber Pro Carry II and nothing but wonderful times with it. No failures to do anything and went bang every time. Then came time to start learning defensive drills and other tactics. Out of all my failures it came down to one simple thing for me in the end. Being used to revolvers, I never had a safety nor did I have to squeeze the grip tighter than comfortable with. I was given a G19 to try and it all went down hill from there. Taking the safety step out of things made sense to me with pistols since being taught to keep the finger off the trigger at a young age with revolvers. To this day, the only safety levers are on my rifles....

 

I've shot many 1911's over the years courtesy of different folks including TGO'ers, expensive ones and cheap ones....I'd have to say an old Auto Ordinance 1911 of my friends is the best I've ever shot. I like 1911's and they are awesome but I've gotten comfortable with Glocks like many have gotten comfortable with 1911's or Sig's or CZ's or Smiths....

[tnhawk]

I have more 1911's than plastic guns, but a plastic gun is carried more often.  I don't worry if I scratch a plastic gun.

[SmokyBaer]

The 1911 is my favorite by far but I have to agree if the owner is willfully neglect in his/her maintenance, it's gonna choke.  It ain't rocket science to clean your weapon ever few hundred rounds and I don't mean a deep clean either.  A 1911 will run great by chasing with an oil soaked bore snake ever so often, smearing a tad of grease on the barrel and slide then follow with a quick wipe down. 

 

Believe me, I tried to like a Glock once and I still have it mainly because I know there has to something I can do to make it more reliable like my 1911s.  Reason I say that is I go thru a bunch of different ammo, some good stuff and but lots of cheap plinking stuff too.  My Glock hates Wolf and Lawman but loves WWB.  Has to be hard primers because it just clicks, no bang.  Same ammo runs just fine in my clunker 1911. 

[Guest tangojuliet]

BAH BLASPHEMERS !!! how dare ye insult the 1911 oh ye pistol sinners insulting the 1911 in such a manner is a sin in the book of browning it is written ye shall not take up the gun made of polymer or take up any pistol besides the 1911 for the 1st commandment in the book of browning states YE SHALL HAVE NO PISTOL BEFORE THE 1911   :stir:

[Guest semiautots]

I may be weird, but I like any gun that goes *bang*.  Doesn't matter.  Plastic, steel, aluminum.  I own both plastic and metal.  Love 'em all.  Carried a worn out 1911 in Korea in 1988 that would not shoot a group.  I have carried Glocks, Hi-Powers, 1911's, Beretta's, and wheel guns.

 

Mostly I carry a Kimber Pro CDP, now.  Always works, but is a pain in the ass to clean due to the design.  I always use Wilson Combat mags and they have never failed.

I love the arguments, but I just don't care.  I will shoot them all with pride.

[nightrunner]

Ill shoot anything and they all have their merits but if i dont have a perceived need for the advantages of a polymer pistol id rather have a 1911, it just feels right