9mm Luger w/ 115 RN w/ IMR 700-x Load Information

[GlockSpock]

So David sold me some 115 Gr. RN plated bullets with some IMR 700-x. I have taken a look at Hogden's website, here is what they show:

 

This will be my first go at reloading. Was wanting general input for a starting load. My research shows that generally plated or FMJ bullets need a bit more powder than lead bullets to maintain the same velocity. Seeing as how the starting load is 3.3 Grs. and the maximum load is 3.7 grs, I suppose 3.3 is a great place to start even though I'm using plated instead of LRN bullets? Seat them so that the C.O.L. is 1.1"? As long as none of the casings exceed .750" inches I should be good, right?

 

I've read a reloading manual (I think it was The ABC's of Reloading), however that was quite a few months ago and would like to brushup on everything before I start. I would like a digital copy (as well as a physical copy). Thus, do any of these digital/physical books strike any bells? Books on Amazon (Want one that can be purchased on Kindle).

 

 

Edited March 27, 2014 by CZ9MM

[173rdABN]

I'm using 4.4gr. Mixed brass. 1.145 OAL. 115gr RN berrys plated. Lee factory crimp.

Use at your own risk.

I wouldn't do 3.3. That's well below my min data I've used/tested. I started at 3.8 and went to 4.6. Edited March 27, 2014 by 173rdABN

[Garufa]

I'm using the same plated pills from David and am loading up to the middle of the jacketed bullet range (with Autocomp).  Also, you might want to go a little longer than the OAL listed for the SPR GDHP, 1.150 is a bit more reasonable for a solid nose.  This is just what I do, you of course are responsible for what you do.

[sfauble]

My first reloads were a few months ago with 115 fmj and 700x. I started at 4.0 and worked my way up to 4.4 and settled at 4.4 with OAL of 1.135. Since then I have done 180 more at 4.4 1.135 and they have functioned great in my SAR, M&P and my XD. That load data came from a Spear manual. I had a hard time finding data for 700x so I bought a lb of Autocomp. Loaded a few thousand rounds with that and I am pretty happy with it so far.

[GlockSpock]

So are we using more because it isn't LRN? What about Glock Rifling? Really I want a really good manual. As far a David's 9mm plated bullets, are they Berry's? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[173rdABN]

Plated should be between Lead and Jacketed. With berrys plated and knowing how fast they are going, I wouldn't worry about plating coming apart or anything like that from to hot of loads. Your way under the 1250 recommended max. And that's just the recommended. I've shot them a little faster from my mp5's and haven't seen any issues yet. As for a glock barrel, I've ran an couple thousand at the least through a couple glocks and I've yet to see an issue with the poly rifling and plated bullets.

[MacGyver]

I ran somewhere close to a bajillion plated 147gr Berry's through a factory Glock barrel before I moved to a threaded Storm Lake barrel. No problems.

[Garufa]

As far a David's 9mm plated bullets, are they Berry's? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

X-Treme

[Luke E.]

Seat them so that the C.O.L. is 1.1"? As long as none of the casings exceed .750" inches I should be good, right?

 

 

 The case length won't have any effect on the OAL and like others have mentioned, 1.150" is going to be closer to where you want to be.

[GlockSpock]

So I wanted to clarify something I was asking earlier in this thread.

 

• LRN bullets take less powder because the lead creates a better seal with the barrel, right?
• Plated/FMJ bullets take a bit more powder because the seal is not as great thus some gases escape, right?
• Glock/Polygonal rifling creates a better seal with the bullet than with traditional lands and grooves, right?
• If I start at anything over 3.7 Grs. of the 700-X, is it possible or likely that the polygonal rifling will cause pressures in excess of safe levels?

 

It just concerns me starting out higher than the LRN data that IMR provides me with.

In all, I need an in depth reloading manual with lots of data.

I suppose I will start 3.3 Grs. and work my way up 1/10 Gr. to around 4.0 Grs.

 

• Will 5 bullets of each load suffice?

[GlockSpock]

You're going to see different data with the same bullets and powder, from one book to the next. That's what makes it fun. Just make

sure you get enough powder behind the lead to get the bullet out the barrel and work your way up. Five of each should be fine.

 

That's something I suppose I will just have to learn to account for. I've read many places to never exceed that maximum load for a cartridge, but when different books show different loads using the same components you are bound to exceed the maximum load listed somewhere. I'm not afraid of using too little powder; I'm afraid of using too much!

 

As far as the maximum length goes. If I set my die to 1.15" or so for this round and then purchase some HP bullets at some point, I should be able to use the same length for the HP as with these plated RN, right?  What I would like to do is set my bullet seating die at a "universal" or standard length and then lock the lock rings in really tight so I don't have to fool with it any longer. What would that length likely be, or is it best that I adjust .05" or so between bullet types?

[173rdABN]

You'll always have to reset your seating die for different type bullets and weights. Lengths will be different causing them to seat at different lengths in the same pre set die. And a HP you want to load a little shorter. Like 1.12 or so.

[173rdABN]

Seating depth makes a massive difference in 9mm with pressure. Not much case volume so the second you start seating shorter account for that and knock off a tenth of a grain or so. Just a reference of where to start.

[GlockSpock]

You'll always have to reset your seating die for different type bullets and weights. Lengths will be different causing them to seat at different lengths in the same pre set die. And a HP you want to load a little shorter. Like 1.12 or so.

 

 

Seating depth makes a massive difference in 9mm with pressure. Not much case volume so the second you start seating shorter account for that and knock off a tenth of a grain or so. Just a reference of where to start.

 

 

It's the base of the bullet you're concerned with when Boyle's Law applies. When you adjust the nose of the bullet, it's for your

chamber. The base is for your charge. When you understand the relationship between the powder, bullet depth and the rest,

you will get less caught up in the published data, and be the one publishing it.

 

Oh yes, I indeed forgot something. I was reading through these instructions:

 

http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol4.pdf

 

I remembered that the bullet seating depth is not set by how far you screw in your die but rather how deep the bullet seating screw is set. I was dreading adjusting the lock rings to change bullet types but that is a non-issue altogether!

 

Even though I'm a bit nervous, I'm going to get started tonight and try to load a few rounds!

 

So what I am going to do is find 10 pieces of 5 different headstamp brass (10xFederal, 10xPMC, etc). I am going to write on a pad of paper how much powder each headstamp has, starting at 3.8 Grs and doing something like this:

 

3.8 PMC

3.9 WCC

4.0 PMU

4.1 F.C.

4.2 Speer

 

Hopefully I will have 10 of 5 different head stamps!

 

So, on the length, 1.15" or a tiny fraction less?

 

I think everything is good but the crimp. I've read the Lee instructions, suppose I"ll go with that? I want as light of a crimp as possible.

[173rdABN]

You don't need a lot of crimp. Correct. But you should get some.

I try to set my stuff at 1.495 OAL. It might vary .005. I'm not to worried about it. Such is life.

Try .2 variations on powder. .1 is kinda silly to me unless your working off your barrel node and all that shnazzy stuff and completely refining a round tell it's perfect. 3.8-4.0-4.2-4.4-4.6. Try those.

[2.ooohhh]

Try .2 variations on powder. .1 is kinda silly to me unless your working off your barrel node and all that shnazzy stuff and completely refining a round tell it's perfect. 3.8-4.0-4.2-4.4-4.6. Try those.

^THIS x2 When working up loads I stagger like this b/c I am weighing each charge individually. That way when I get around to cranking out a few hundred pistol rounds at a time on the progressive I don't have to take the time to do that knowing that i'm within .1 of a grain of my intended load.(often less if a powder measures well)

[GlockSpock]

Just loaded 25 rounds. Took my time learning step by step. All rounds are within .005" of 1.14". FC=3.8 PPU=4.0 PMC=4.2 WIN=4.4 WWC=4.6 Weighed each charge and tared the scales to each casing before charging. I followed the directions and tried a light crimp. Going to try and fire them tomorrow. List of everything I should watch for and do? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GlockSpock]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luke E.]

 With pistol ammo I generally shoot groups and watch the primers. Obviously start with the lowest charge, shoot you first group checking the primer for high pressure sign after each shot. Repeat until you have gone through all loads or you started seeing sign of high pressure. I like to keep the fired brass in groups with the same load so that I can line them up afterwards and look at the progression in primer "flattening". This is just something I like to do because you get to see how much those small incremental jumps in powder charge effect the spent primer. I usually go with the most accurate lowest charge that reliably cycles the weapon. A lot of times the groups will start off opened up a bit and tighten up over the first few loads then the next few loads will show similar accuracy and then start to open back up as the charge increases. This isn't always the case but I have found that the most accurate round is seldom the hottest load which is why I mentioned the groups usually start to open back up. The reason I say choose the lowest accurate/consistent charge is because I see no need in wasting the extra powder and adding recoil when i'm not gaining any accuracy from it. The only exception I personally have made regarding this was with a hunting bullet that I needed the extra speed to ensure adequate expansion so I was willing to give up a small amount of consistency in exchange for more speed. 

 You will really start enjoying this whole process once you have developed a few more loads and start to see the whole cause and effect thing first hand. Good luck tomorrow and I hope the rain will give you the chance to run off your test loads!

[musicman]

I don't have experience with 700x, but I've had an experience with Ramshot Zip and Lee's (I think) watered down data that I wanted to share.  I, like a few others, generally start in the middle of load data for my auto rounds.  Until Zip, I never had an issue with cycling, etc.  I had a nice range day and tried them in my guns... FTE nearly every time.  :down:  I went back home, bumped it up a bit, and went back for a quick range trip with just my 3913 and VOILA!  Problem solved! :rock:

 

I cranked out 150 more of those for our next outing, thinking all was well.  3913 = great.  Shield = FTE about 40% of the time.   :squint:  I tried them in my M&P 40 with the 9 barrel and got about the same 40% FTE rate.  I was right in the middle of the lower threshold for these guns' minimum cycling pressures/velocities.

 

All of this is just to point out that before you crank out a bunch of rounds, make sure they work in ALL your guns!  :nervous:

[GlockSpock]

So I finally got around to test firing these rounds. Of all of the that fired, all of them functioned in the Glock 19 flawlessly. The higher powder level rounds seemed safe and the primers looked ok to me. About 20% of the rounds would not fire. The primer would have a heavy strike but would not fire. I tried one of them again...nothing. I did not use lube during sizing and they did not come into contact with anything. I expected near 100% reliability from CCI 500 primers. My best guess is that since I primed the brass directly after tumbling perhaps there was some moisture left in the casing that did not dry properly? What else could it be? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jamie Jackson]

CZ;

 

CCI primers are relatively hard, especially when compared to Federal and Winchester, in my experience.

 

I shoot Glocks as well (17-19-26). The only primers I've had issue with were the "lead-free" Tula primers. But they would almost always ignite on a second strike from my Glocks. I did put an extra power spring on my striker in order to get reliable ignition on those particular primers...but have since removed that spring as we are using "regular" Tula primers now.

 

 

Did you try running the one struck rounds back through to see if they would ignite?

 

Also...just a thought...sometimes primer seating depth (ie not seated deeply enough) can cause primer strike ignition problems...

 

Good luck and hang with it. :up:

 

 

 

:2cents:

[Patton]

CZ;
 
CCI primers are relatively hard, especially when compared to Federal and Winchester, in my experience.
 
I shoot Glocks as well (17-19-26). The only primers I've had issue with were the "lead-free" Tula primers. But they would almost always ignite on a second strike from my Glocks. I did put an extra power spring on my striker in order to get reliable ignition on those particular primers...but have since removed that spring as we are using "regular" Tula primers now.
 
 
Did you try running the one struck rounds back through to see if they would ignite?
 
Also...just a thought...sometimes primer seating depth (ie not seated deeply enough) can cause primer strike ignition problems...
 
Good luck and hang with it. :up:
 
 
 
:2cents:

Factory Glock 40S&W strikers are microscopically longer and will help with those weak primer strikes.

[GlockSpock]

I personally just don't think that the problem was a light primer strike. There was a good indention on the FTF's. I tried one of them again, nothing.

 

Perhaps I seated them too deeply or perhaps a bit of moisture (from my tumbling) deactivated the primer. Something worth nothing may be that all of the higher powered rounds fired, it was mainly a few of the lower powered ones that did not fire.