Does TN carry permit allow you to carry a short shotgun as your carry gun?

[Guest GlockRule]

Just curious. Looking into getting a SBS or AOW. Thanks 

[dcloudy777]

An AOW shotgun is considered a "smoothbore pistol", and should be legal to carry with a TN HCP.

That being said, it's not that great of an idea. Basically you'll be carrying a very heavy, awkward gun that holds very few shots and is going to be very difficult to hit anything.

[TrickyNicky]

It'll look cool, kinda. Other than that can't see the point? Not something I'd want and not something I'd want to explain to the DA, judge or jury.

Would this be a "sometimes" gun or truck gun maybe?

[Guest GlockRule]

Thanks, just wondered where it fell under the HCP law. I have other guns that would be better as a truck gun, and I have a carry pistol.

[Oh Shoot]

An AOW shotgun is considered a "smoothbore pistol", and should be legal to carry with a TN HCP.

 

Dunno 'bout that,  feds consider an AOW to be neither long gun or handgun, which is why it's called an Any Other Weapon. :)

 

Technically, if they wanted to split hairs, I don't think I could legally carry my AR pistol with the VFG on it, because federally it's no longer a handgun.

 

And TN cedes to federal law on these things, as far as any are mentioned in the statutes. But these are things you can't know unless push ever comes to shove or you can get your rep to ask TN AG for an opinion. In which case you still won't know anything but his opinion.

 

- OS

[Jonnin]

No.  You can carry only guns defined as a pistol that have not been modified in a way to make them no longer a pistol.   It is a HANDGUN permit.  You can have a loaded  but unchambered long arm but if you try that in the bigger cities it may not go over too well.  AOW and SBX types can probably be had loaded & unchambered IF you have the paperwork to go with them.

 

-- an unmodified AR pistol is a pistol.  VFG indeed is illegal -- not only not allowed on permit, but actually illegal without a tax stamp.  Various work-arounds exist for the issue that are legal.

 

You could get something like the judge & friends, which shoot 410 out of a pistol as a "shotgun" with a couple of specialty 410 defense rounds on the market.  Its still probably less effective than shooting .45 for anything other than a vicious flock of  robins. 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jonnin

[Oh Shoot]

AOW and SBX types can probably be had loaded & unchambered IF you have the paperwork to go with them.

Well strictly to statute wording, a SBR would be okay in vehicle because it's a rifle, but AOW wouldn't, because it's not a rifle or shotgun.
 

-- an unmodified AR pistol is a pistol.  VFG indeed is illegal -- not only not allowed on permit, but actually illegal without a tax stamp.  Various work-arounds exist for the issue that are legal.

 
Yes, 26" pistol or longer, VFG is legal. My point was that federally it is then no longer a pistol/handgun, but a "firearm", and the permit only allows carrying a loaded "handgun".

 

Again, could it actually be an issue? Who knows. Can tell you that I don't carry/transport my AR pistol with QD VFG on it though, just to make sure.
 
- OS

Edited March 27, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

Confusing. Makes me wanna just carry something that was designed for the task :)

[nightrunner]

Confusing. Makes me wanna just carry something that was designed for the task :)

Yeah, starting to sound like something involving a certain weird guy that likes to start trouble in Nashville area for no good reason...

[dcloudy777]

Yeah, starting to sound like something involving a certain weird guy that likes to start trouble in Nashville area for no good reason...

 

If he starts talking about painting the muzzle orange, I say he's outta here.   :rofl:

[JAB]

To make matters a little more confusing, keep in mind that - although a person who is between the ages of 18 and 20 can legally purchase a shotgun from a licensed firearms dealer - the dealer cannot legally sell that 18-20 year old person a shotgun which has a pistol grip on it instead of a full buttstock.  One must be 21 to purchase such a shotgun from a licensed dealer, just as with a handgun.  My understanding is that this is true even though the shotgun has a full length barrel, etc.  So that sounds like a pistol grip turns a shotgun into a handgun where some legalities are concerned (i.e. a person who is over 18 but under 21 cannot legally purchase one from a licensed dealer, just as with handguns) but not others (IOW, I don't think a shotgun with an 18.5 inch barrel and pistol grip would be considered a handgun for the purposes of carrying.)

Edited March 27, 2014 by JAB

[Oh Shoot]

To make matters a little more confusing, keep in mind that - although a person who is between the ages of 18 and 20 can legally purchase a shotgun from a licensed firearms dealer - the dealer cannot legally sell that 18-20 year old person a shotgun which has a pistol grip on it instead of a full buttstock. ..

 

I didn't know that as never thought about it, but makes sense though, as federal definition of "shotgun" includes "designed to be fired from shoulder". So it would have to be "other firearm" on 4473 and not "long gun" to keep an 18 year old from buying one. However, as I understand it, it's fine to put a buttstock on it after purchase, so it would indeed be a shotgun then.

 

Would have to be same reason you must be 21 to buy a receiver (like an AR lower), because it's not a rifle or shotgun.

 

You can actually legally buy (and I think make yourself?) a shotgun with a less than 18" barrel and pistol grip, as long as OAL is 26", it is also a "firearm". But of course you couldn't put a buttstock on it.

 

Same as an AR pistol 26" long with a VFG attached becomes a legal "firearm".

 

- OS

Edited March 27, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[JAB]

I didn't know that as never thought about it, but makes sense though...

- OS

 

I am pretty sure that this was a change to the rules that only came about a couple of years ago.  I seem to remember hearing something about it at the time but had more or less forgotten until recently.  The reason I remembered it was that one day when my 19 year old nephew and  I were in the LGS I asked the owner to confirm for me that my nephew could legally purchase a shotgun in the store.  He responded that I was right as long as it wasn't a shotgun with a pistol grip and that he would have to be 21 to buy a pistol gripped shotgun.

 

I guess it does make a certain sort of 'sense' in the upside down, Bizarro world government and ATF version of reality.  It doesn't make much sense in real life, though.  I mean, to my knowledge there is no law against an 18-20 year old buying a full-buttstock shotgun at a licensed dealer, buying a pistol grip and changing it, themselves.  Sort of like, unless I am mistaken, there is no law against an 18 year old owning a handgun or even buying one in a private purchase but that same 18 year old can't buy a handgun from a licensed dealer.  Oh, well, I guess that makes about as much sense as the fact that the same 18 year old could be sent to war to fight, kill and/or die, would be tried as an adult for committing a crime and is allowed to vote to decide who will represent them in the government but can't legally buy a Budweiser.

 

Anyhow, didn't mean to hi-jack but did think it was relative to the OP's question to point out that, where the government and the bass-ackwards gun laws are concerned, sometimes a shotgun isn't a shotgun, under the law, even though - legally - it still is.  Like I said, Bizarro world.

Edited March 28, 2014 by JAB

[Oh Shoot]

....

Anyhow, didn't mean to hi-jack but did think it was relative to the OP's question to point out that, where the government and the bass-ackwards gun laws are concerned, sometimes a shotgun isn't a shotgun, under the law, even though - legally - it still is.  Like I said, Bizarro world.

 

I took a closer look, and indeed this is specifically mentioned on the directions for the 4473 regarding section 29 (type of firearm):

 

"Types of firearms include : pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms."

 

So here's the additional thing about that regarding the topic of thread -- again, perhaps splitting hairs, but since this must be notated also under question 18 as "other firearm", it too does not fit wording of TCA to allow you to carry it loaded in vehicle, any more than an AOW, simply because it is not a rifle or shotgun.

 

So now we have at least three types of firearms that are not shotguns, rifles, or handguns, so under TN law are technically not allowed for loaded carry either on person or in vehicle with an HCP under federal definitions of firearms or TN's definitions either as I understand them:

 

- an NFA AOW (which is not a handgun, rifle, or shotgun)

- a pistol gripped only "shotgun" (which is not actually a shotgun)

- a 26" "handgun" with a vertical forward grip attached (which is no longer actually a handgun)

 

- OS

Edited March 28, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[MacGyver]

If he starts talking about painting the muzzle orange, I say he's outta here.   :rofl:

Truth.

 

As a friend of mine's dad who ran a hardware store used to say, "if they come in and their mouth and nose are blue, don't sell them any paint..."