Stranger on Property

[wileecoyote]

It is interesting that folks can be very pro-gun and believe in owning, storing, and carrying guns at all times, including for home defense, and they typically spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to outfit the family with the proper firearms, ammunition, safe storage devices, and training to properly defend themselves should the need arise. Yet some of these same folks question the need for basic or intermediate security measures to protect their loved ones, homes, and property... especially when many of the security measures are far less expensive and safer / much easier to use than firearms.

 

I would expect a significant percentage of the uneducated public to be slightly resistant or at least indifferent to the idea of owning, carrying, and using firearms for personal defense, and I can see how these same folks might scoff at some security measures with the same argument: "why on earth would you possibly need that?"... "if something happens I would just call the police"... "anyone with a lot of guns is probably a Rambo / wacko type"... "we don't need security systems because we live in a nice neighborhood with great neighbors"... "we have a dog who will protect us"... etc. etc. We have all heard these arguments before.

 

What surprised me, however, is those here on TGO that are presumably very serious about their firearms ownership and self defense, yet they scoff at the basic and intermediate security measures as though those are completely unnecessary or overkill. To me the logical argument is the same across the board, and is similar to the reason why we all have car insurance, home owners insurance, spare tires, and locks on our doors. We don't expect something bad to happen, and we believe that the odds are against anything serious going wrong on any given day, yet we still see the value in being prepared to protect and help ourselves should the need arise.

 

Upgraded locks, exterior lights, decent home security systems, basic to intermediate cameras, and perimeter motion detection sensors are actually pretty cheap and easy to install, with most of this stuff combined costing less than 1-2 good firearms. And basic things like trespassing signs, property line markers, and bait items can be free or cost less than a single box of ammo. So my argument would be that it is foolish not to invest in a complete security plan, especially because it can give you that early warning which may allow you to avoid a bad situation where you might otherwise need to use firearms. If I hear a perimeter property alarm I can easily move to a safe location and check what is happening via a remote camera rather than confronting an unknown situation in person, so why not do that? if I see it is my neighbor Fred chasing his loose dog, or a pair of young kids walking through the creek then I can just as easily decide to go say hello, or leave them alone and do nothing. But if I see something unusual then I don't have to take any risk at all, and should something bad happen it will surely be helpful to have the security systems in place, and video recordings to help with the aftermath.

 

And there are many unrelated benefits of good security systems. Modern systems allow you to monitor your home and property while traveling, which is great on vacation or extended trips, and also allows you to keep an eye on any service personnel that might be making deliveries, cutting the grass, etc. On stressful days at the office it can be quite relaxing to take a few minutes to login and watch a flock of turkeys grazing in the back pasture, or watch a sunrise or sunset over my scenic land. And if you have kids it can be pretty nice to know when they are coming and going from home, especially if they are late or otherwise not reporting in or answering their phones. For those who might still scoff at some of these security measures, I suggest you try it and see what you think. Many of my family members and close friends have been converted once they have seen how cheap it is to get this stuff, and how cool it is to use for many reasons.

[TMF]

[quote name="wileecoyote" post="1130027" timestamp="1395803418"]It is interesting that folks can be very pro-gun and believe in owning, storing, and carrying guns at all times, including for home defense, and they typically spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to outfit the family with the proper firearms, ammunition, safe storage devices, and training to properly defend themselves should the need arise. Yet some of these same folks question the need for basic or intermediate security measures to protect their loved ones, homes, and property... especially when many of the security measures are far less expensive and safer / much easier to use than firearms. I would expect a significant percentage of the uneducated public to be slightly resistant or at least indifferent to the idea of owning, carrying, and using firearms for personal defense, and I can see how these same folks might scoff at some security measures with the same argument: "why on earth would you possibly need that?"... "if something happens I would just call the police"... "anyone with a lot of guns is probably a Rambo / wacko type"... "we don't need security systems because we live in a nice neighborhood with great neighbors"... "we have a dog who will protect us"... etc. etc. We have all heard these arguments before. What surprised me, however, is those here on TGO that are presumably very serious about their firearms ownership and self defense, yet they scoff at the basic and intermediate security measures as though those are completely unnecessary or overkill. To me the logical argument is the same across the board, and is similar to the reason why we all have car insurance, home owners insurance, spare tires, and locks on our doors. We don't expect something bad to happen, and we believe that the odds are against anything serious going wrong on any given day, yet we still see the value in being prepared to protect and help ourselves should the need arise. Upgraded locks, exterior lights, decent home security systems, basic to intermediate cameras, and perimeter motion detection sensors are actually pretty cheap and easy to install, with most of this stuff combined costing less than 1-2 good firearms. And basic things like trespassing signs, property line markers, and bait items can be free or cost less than a single box of ammo. So my argument would be that it is foolish not to invest in a complete security plan, especially because it can give you that early warning which may allow you to avoid a bad situation where you might otherwise need to use firearms. If I hear a perimeter property alarm I can easily move to a safe location and check what is happening via a remote camera rather than confronting an unknown situation in person, so why not do that? if I see it is my neighbor Fred chasing his loose dog, or a pair of young kids walking through the creek then I can just as easily decide to go say hello, or leave them alone and do nothing. But if I see something unusual then I don't have to take any risk at all, and should something bad happen it will surely be helpful to have the security systems in place, and video recordings to help with the aftermath. And there are many unrelated benefits of good security systems. Modern systems allow you to monitor your home and property while traveling, which is great on vacation or extended trips, and also allows you to keep an eye on any service personnel that might be making deliveries, cutting the grass, etc. On stressful days at the office it can be quite relaxing to take a few minutes to login and watch a flock of turkeys grazing in the back pasture, or watch a sunrise or sunset over my scenic land. And if you have kids it can be pretty nice to know when they are coming and going from home, especially if they are late or otherwise not reporting in or answering their phones. For those who might still scoff at some of these security measures, I suggest you try it and see what you think. Many of my family members and close friends have been converted once they have seen how cheap it is to get this stuff, and how cool it is to use for many reasons.[/quote] Yeah, but if you're just polite to neighbors and strangers who trespass on your property then you are 100% safe from harm. Just like if someone is trying to kill you then you need to call the police, not take the matter into your own hands. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RichardR]

Meh, some folks enjoy the great outdoors it isn't unusual to encounter other folks especially around water while out backpacking/canoeing/bicycling/etc.

You have to remember that this whole planet has billions of other people on it, so you'll occasionally run into them from time to time.

The percentage of "bad guys" in our population is actually fairly low, oh sure there is always that chance encounter that we need to be concerned with but most of the time in my experience random/chance encounters in the woods/creek have mostly been positive ones.

[wileecoyote]

Meh, some folks enjoy the great outdoors it isn't unusual to encounter other folks especially around water while out backpacking/canoeing/bicycling/etc.

You have to remember that this whole planet has billions of other people on it, so you'll occasionally run into them from time to time.

The percentage of "bad guys" in our population is actually fairly low, oh sure there is always that chance encounter that we need to be concerned with but most of the time in my experience random/chance encounters in the woods/creek have mostly been positive ones.

Agreed. The same is true of almost everyone you meet at work, in stores, on the streets, in restaurants, etc. The vast majority are not going to commit crimes or harm you, and thus pose no risk to you. Yet we still own (and many of us carry or keep at home) firearms for self defense should the need arise. And this is why I have security measures in place at home as well. Not to catch my neighbor chasing his dog or my dog taking a dump on video, and not to react to friendly folks by calling out the swat team... but to allow me to monitor my property at all times and be alerted proactively whenever someone or something unusual is about, so that I can evaluate and react accordingly without placing myself or my family at risk. It's just logical and is not difficult or expensive, so why not? Of course the odds are pretty good that you can live like Sheriff Andy Taylor from Mayberry and never carry a gun, always say "howdy" to every stranger you meet, and greet trespassers with nothing but a smile, always offering to help them with whatever they might ask... and you will likely do nothing more than make a lot of good friends. But alas, our society is not truly like that fictional Mayberry town, and there are a few bad guys out there... crime does exist, some of those strangers are going to be less than innocent, so it's up to you if you want to err on the side of caution or continue living in Mayberry mode.

[frankmako]

did the guy look like a dirt bag or was he clean cut?  i have this same problem on the back side of the farm.  the back side of my farm has a small river on it along with a county road and a bridge.   between fishing, dumping trash, and tearing down the fence i can not keep up.  i don't care if they fish as long as they pickup their trash and use the gate.  but most are dumb that leave trash all over and climb over the fence.  then i got the people that dump house whole trash, dead dogs, etc.. at the bridge when they can drive five more miles to a free county trash station.   so last summer i started running them all off when i can.  it is hard to keep your place up when dirt bags don't care.  in to days world it is best to err on the side of caution. 

[Peace]

did the guy look like a dirt bag or was he clean cut?  i have this same problem on the back side of the farm.  the back side of my farm has a small river on it along with a county road and a bridge.   between fishing, dumping trash, and tearing down the fence i can not keep up.  i don't care if they fish as long as they pickup their trash and use the gate.  but most are dumb that leave trash all over and climb over the fence.  then i got the people that dump house whole trash, dead dogs, etc.. at the bridge when they can drive five more miles to a free county trash station.   so last summer i started running them all off when i can.  it is hard to keep your place up when dirt bags don't care.  in to days world it is best to err on the side of caution. 

 

She said he could go "either way"... (no not like that...).  He wasn't clean cut or well dressed, but he wasn't obviously ragged.  

[Patton]

Posting signs and making it less convenient with barbed wire fencing is about all that you can do. It is not unreasonable to believe that a honest person would want to visit a creek running through your property and others. I have lived on a property with a creek, property with a bluff, and property with a lake, it is par for the course being an access point. Until the police take their name and tell them in person that future trespassing will result in arrest they will not be able to do anything for you, even with the signs but they help confer your message.

[JAB]

I have to wonder how old the fellah was.  I think that things have changed in this area in the last, few decades regarding private property and so on.  I am thinking of a specific incident that made this clear, to me.

 

My ex-wife's late grandfather was an intelligent man who pretty much kept his full mental capacity right up until his death (in his 90s.)  Thing is, though, he never quite realized that things in the modern world are not like they were when he was younger.  One day, he had us drive him out into the country to see a building that was once an old (one room, I think) school house where his grandfather had taught school eighty odd years or so ago (yes, amazingly, the building is still standing although it doesn't look as if it has been maintained.)  He was taking a painting class and wanted to get some good pictures of the old building in order to do paintings of it.

 

Thing is, that building is now on private property in a fenced in cow pasture type area.  Well, he thought nothing of opening the gate, going in and closing the gate behind him and walking to the building in order to get close enough to take pictures.  None of us knew he was going to do so until he did and we tried to stop him, telling him that it was private property.  His response was that he wasn't hurting anything and whoever owned the property (he didn't know who owned it) wouldn't care.  I responded by telling him - after he had stubbornly walked close to the building, took his pictures and returned - that in their place, if I discovered that someone had just opened a gate and let themselves in I would invite them to leave at shotgun point.  He attempted to brush my comment off until my wife (his granddaughter) and later another of his granddaughters confirmed that such would be a very likely - possibly the most likely - response from many property owners these days.  He seemed genuinely shocked to hear that.

 

When he wanted to go back for more pictures, we drove to the closest house to see if we could find out who to ask permission.  There was an older couple (in fact, they looked close in age to my ex's grandfather) sitting on the porch and they were the owners of the property in question.  Once we explained why he wanted to get close to the building, they seemed more than happy to give permission.  That time - which turned out to be the last time he got to visit the old building - we walked with him and got to see the building up close.  It really was a pretty cool experience.

 

My point in all of this is that - depending on the age of the person in question - if he really did live there at some time in the past this fellah really might have just been reliving old memories.  If he was an older person, it really might never have occurred to him that you would mind him walking his old stompin' grounds or that there should be any need to ask permission.  Just a thought.

Edited March 26, 2014 by JAB

[Spiffy]

I have to wonder how old the fellah was.  I think that things have changed in this area in the last, few decades regarding private property and so on.  I am thinking of a specific incident that made this clear, to me.

 

My ex-wife's late grandfather was an intelligent man who pretty much kept his full mental capacity right up until his death (in his 90s.)  Thing is, though, he never quite realized that things in the modern world are not like they were when he was younger.  One day, he had us drive him out into the country to see a building that was once an old (one room, I think) school house where his grandfather had taught school eighty odd years or so ago (yes, amazingly, the building is still standing although it doesn't look as if it has been maintained.)  He was taking a painting class and wanted to get some good pictures of the old building in order to do paintings of it.

 

Thing is, that building is now on private property in a fenced in cow pasture type area.  Well, he thought nothing of opening the gate, going in and closing the gate behind him and walking to the building in order to get close enough to take pictures.  None of us knew he was going to do so until he did and we tried to stop him, telling him that it was private property.  His response was that he wasn't hurting anything and whoever owned the property (he didn't know who owned it) wouldn't care.  I responded by telling him - after he had stubbornly walked close to the building, took his pictures and returned - that in their place, if I discovered that someone had just opened a gate and let themselves in I would invite them to leave at shotgun point.  He attempted to brush my comment off until my wife (his granddaughter) and later another of his granddaughters confirmed that such would be a very likely - possibly the most likely - response from many property owners these days.  He seemed genuinely shocked to hear that.

 

When he wanted to go back for more pictures, we drove to the closest house to see if we could find out who to ask permission.  There was an older couple (in fact, they looked close in age to my ex's grandfather) sitting on the porch and they were the owners of the property in question.  Once we explained why he wanted to get close to the building, they seemed more than happy to give permission.  That time - which turned out to be the last time he got to visit the old building - we walked with him and got to see the building up close.  It really was a pretty cool experience.

 

My point in all of this is that - depending on the age of the person in question - if he really did live there at some time in the past this fellah really might have just been reliving old memories.  If he was an older person, it really might never have occurred to him that you would mind him walking his old stompin' grounds or that there should be any need to ask permission.  Just a thought.

 

We get that now and then with people coming to see the "old house". It started with one older lady who did in fact live there when we was a child. The rest seem to come back every 3 years or so. The last time I told them NO. No one else has lived here in 60 years and you have no business looking around an old house that the floor could fall in or something. They got mad but we been paying the land tax for the last 60 years so they can just be mad.

[TMF]

[quote name="JAB" post="1130149" timestamp="1395847261"] My point in all of this is that - depending on the age of the person in question - if he really did live there at some time in the past this fellah really might have just been reliving old memories. If he was an older person, it really might never have occurred to him that you would mind him walking his old stompin' grounds or that there should be any need to ask permission. Just a thought.[/quote] Or he coulda been lying. Who knows? Point is, you still take it as a serious threat when there are women and children involved. I'd rather have a guy think I'm a total ahole than have a bad guy think he's found a mark. Sorry, if you trespass on my property and you don't belong there I'm not going to be nice. I'm gonna want you to know that if your intent is to do harm you're gonna have to work for it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RichardR]

Point is, you still take it as a serious threat

If walking a creek is a "serious threat" than I must be on a most wanted list or something, because me & my kids love going creek-stomping, canoeing, bicycling, walking, hiking, etc.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't always know where one property ends & another one begins, I of course respect no-tresspassing signs & fences, however the OP stated that he hadn't yet posted his property, so I don't see the "OMG a dangerous tresspasser! quickly everyone into the bunker!" urgency/emergency here.

The trash/littering thing does seem to be a serious problem here in TN, there have been times where I have spent more time picking up other peoples trash/litter than I did much else on certain walks/hikes, very sad to see such disrespect, I just don't understand why some folks would litter up these beautiful rivers, creeks, woods & trails like that.

Anyway being aware, vigilant & prepared is always a good thing, especially out in remote places where police response times could be measured in hours not in minutes.

But I'd suggest refraining from out-right demonizing people for wandering about enjoying the outdoors, I wish more people would "unplug" and spend an afternoon playing in a creek or walking a wooded trail, the world would be a much better place if we all reconnected with nature a bit IMHO.

Chances are that if the OP's property been posted the guy as well as most reasonable/responsible people, probably would not had "knowingly tresspassed" (if they saw a sign) so putting up private property / no tresspass signs is a good idea, if the problem persists then I'd probably put up a couple game-cams to see exactly who was ignoring the signs.

Someone tresspassing on/in your "curtilage" (up close to house, barn &/or outbuildings buildings) is a lot different IMHO than someone walking a creek at the far end of your property & would definately be considered a potential security threat.

Apppearence/clothing might be decieving, I don't wear a suit & tie to go get wet, muddy or sweaty in, so usually I'll wear old clothing while out & about on my adventures, I'd think most folks would do the same.

Their manners (or a lack thereof) however does tell you an awful lot about a person/people you encounter, if I am unknowingly tresspassing & some guy comes out with a shotgun cussing & threatening me, well he better be real, real careful what he does because I'll be a fraction of a second away the whole encounter from stepping behind the nearest piece of cover & engaging his stupid ass for pointing a deadly weapon at me.

But if he'd just said "hey, this is private property .. the property line is over there" defending myself would had never entered the equasion, I'd just appologized & thanked him.

So waving a shotgun around while being a complete asshole to someone just because they accidently/unknowingly crossed an invisible line on a deed or map somewhere isn't always the wisest course of action IMHO.

[TMF]

[quote name="RichardR" post="1130210" timestamp="1395856553"]If walking a creek is a "serious threat" than I must be on a most wanted list or something, because me & my kids love going creek-stomping, canoeing, bicycling, walking, hiking, etc. I'll be the first to admit that I don't always know where one property ends & another one begins, I of course respect no-tresspassing signs & fences, however the OP stated that he hadn't yet posted his property, so I don't see the "OMG a dangerous tresspasser! quickly everyone into the bunker!" urgency/emergency here. The trash/littering thing does seem to be a serious problem here in TN, there have been times where I have spent more time picking up other peoples trash/litter than I did much else on certain walks/hikes, very sad to see such disrespect, I just don't understand why some folks would litter up these beautiful rivers, creeks, woods & trails like that. Anyway being aware, vigilant & prepared is always a good thing, especially out in remote places where police response times could be measured in hours not in minutes. But I'd suggest refraining from out-right demonizing people for wandering about enjoying the outdoors, I wish more people would "unplug" and spend an afternoon playing in a creek or walking a wooded trail, the world would be a much better place if we all reconnected with nature a bit IMHO. Chances are that if the OP's property been posted the guy as well as most reasonable/responsible people, probably would not had "knowingly tresspassed" (if they saw a sign) so putting up private property / no tresspass signs is a good idea, if the problem persists then I'd probably put up a couple game-cams to see exactly who was ignoring the signs. Someone tresspassing on/in your "curtilage" (up close to house, barn &/or outbuildings buildings) is a lot different IMHO than someone walking a creek at the far end of your property & would definately be considered a potential security threat. Apppearence/clothing might be decieving, I don't wear a suit & tie to go get wet, muddy or sweaty in, so usually I'll wear old clothing while out & about on my adventures, I'd think most folks would do the same. Their manners (or a lack thereof) however does tell you an awful lot about a person/people you encounter, if I am unknowingly tresspassing & some guy comes out with a shotgun cussing & threatening me, well he better be real, real careful what he does because I'll be a fraction of a second away the whole encounter from stepping behind the nearest piece of cover & engaging his stupid ass for pointing a deadly weapon at me. But if he'd just said "hey, this is private property .. the property line is over there" defending myself would had never entered the equasion, I'd just appologized & thanked him. So waving a shotgun around while being a complete asshole to someone just because they accidently/unknowingly crossed an invisible line on a deed or map somewhere isn't always the wisest course of action IMHO.[/quote] Okay, if you're gonna be a dick at least PM me first so I can extend you the same invitation as before. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Oh Shoot]

If walking a creek is a "serious threat" ....

 

Seems a pretty reasonable point of view to me, so I guess you'll get about 50% + flak for it. :)

 

Lay of land and relative population density around has a lot to do with things too - what's pert reasonable behavior one place can certainly and likely should cause more alarm in another.

 

- OS

 

edit: oops, didn't even get the post written before TMF validated first sentence. ;)

Edited March 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[RichardR]

Okay, if you're gonna be a dick at least PM me first so I can extend you the same invitation as before.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No thanks, I am not going to take you up on your offer to "fight you".

Your desire to do me harm for disagreeing with you says an awful lot about your character though.

[TMF]

[quote name="RichardR" post="1130218" timestamp="1395857092"]No thanks, I am not going to take you up on your offer to "fight you". Your desire to do me harm for disagreeing with you says an awful lot about your character though.[/quote] Look ma'am, you took two words from my post and chose to use them in a context so you could take it to the extreme then ridicule the results. That is how a 8 year old makes a point. Your post served no other purpose than to stir the pot. So if you want to be a big man and poke the bear just for kicks, I'm again extending the offer to strap on the gloves, head to the ring that is convenient for you and I'll whoop your sorry ass. It has nothing to do with a predisposition to violence at disagreement. I strap on gloves and fight my best buddies all the time. I'd just enjoy it a lot more if I could have the pleasure of a PT session with you. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited March 26, 2014 by TMF

[RichardR]

Look ma'am, you took two words from my post and chose to use them in a context so you could take it to the extreme then ridicule the results. That is how a 8 year old makes a point. Your post served no other purpose than to stir the pot. So if you want to be a big man and poke the bear just for kicks, I'm again extending the offer to strap on the gloves, head to the ring that is convenient for you and I'll whoop your sorry ass.It has nothing to do with a predisposition to violence at disagreement. I strap on gloves and fight my best buddies all the time. I'd just enjoy it a lot more if I could have the pleasure of a PT session with you.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Meh, there is nothing special about you sunshine, other than your attempted bully-tactics you really don't even rate a little blip on my radar.

[TMF]

[quote name="RichardR" post="1130234" timestamp="1395858499"]Meh, there is nothing special about you sunshine, other than your attempted bully-tactics you really don't even rate a little blip on my radar.[/quote] Okay, then how about you keep to yourself rather than pulling that shit above where you clearly act like a woman and try to start shit. Otherwise, I'd be glad to meet you for a PT session and let it be handled in a fair and honorable way. I'd love to give you the opportunity to run your mouth in person the way you like to run it here. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RichardR]

Okay, then how about you keep to yourself rather than pulling that #### above where you clearly act like a woman and try to start ####. Otherwise, I'd be glad to meet you for a PT session and let it be handled in a fair and honorable way. I'd love to give you the opportunity to run your mouth in person the way you like to run it here.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It'd be unwise to become a "blip" on my radar, go punch a wall or something & get it out of your system.

Then log back in & discuss things like an adult, appologies to the OP for this distraction, some folks take entarwebz-stuff way to personally.

[TMF]

[quote name="RichardR" post="1130249" timestamp="1395860563"]It'd be unwise to become a "blip" on my radar, go punch a wall or something & get it out of your system. Then log back in & discuss things like an adult, appologies to the OP for this distraction, some folks take entarwebz-stuff way to personally.[/quote] No, your issue is you talk in a manner here that you wouldn't do so to someone's face. That would make you a sorry coward. I'm giving you the opportunity to show that I misunderstand you being so yellow. I was responding genuinely to a post. You decided to take two words from that post and design a scenario that was ridiculous, then make fun of me for the ridiculous scenario you painted... something about running to bunkers and whatnot. You clearly like to run your cunt mouth. Prove me I'm wrong. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TMF]

The appropriate response here would be you saying, "I'm sorry for being a yellow cunt and running my mouth." Or you could say, "yes, let us put on gloves and do an honorable session of combatives training." Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RichardR]

The appropriate response here would be you saying, "I'm sorry for being a yellow #### and running my mouth." Or you could say, "yes, let us put on gloves and do an honorable session of combatives training."Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or you could take your "Billy-Badass" issues up with a therapist, listen skippy your problems are YOUR problems, it'd be a mistake to make any attempt to make them MY problem, especially by initiating any sort of physical confrontation with me, are we clear?

[gregintenn]

The appropriate response here would be you saying, "I'm sorry for being a yellow #### and running my mouth." Or you could say, "yes, let us put on gloves and do an honorable session of combatives training." Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You might want to take a chill pill rather than threatening people here who disagree with you. You will find this forum to be much more enjoyable. That, and RichardR isn't the only one here who isn't agreeing with your posts in this thread.

[QuietDan]

Or you could take your "Billy-Badass" issues up with a therapist, listen skippy your problems are YOUR problems, it'd be a mistake to make any attempt to make them MY problem, especially by initiating any sort of physical confrontation with me, are we clear?

 

Kind of a big-mouth pussy, ain't ya? Or, am I misunderstanding something here? 

 

You are making a fundamental error on the forum. You are boring.

[sigmtnman]

Where is albino mr peanut with a meme?

[RichardR]

Kind of a big-mouth pussy, ain't ya? Or, am I misunderstanding something here?

You are making a fundamental error on the forum. You are boring.

Meh, I was once an angery youngman, I grew up though.

And I'd much rather be boring than be a super-huge douche. Edited March 26, 2014 by RichardR