HOA says not guns allowed in Nashbor Viliage??????

[btq96r]

There are those who would rather pay someone else to do the things you and I would rather do ourselves, like maintain common areas,

cut the grass and paint outside trim, but they usually don't consider the other pitfalls of that style of ownership like has been mentioned

here.

 

I used to be a broker, and I can tell you for a fact that most people have no clue what they are getting into because they wouldn't read

the documents they were signing. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. I always told the buyer they should read anything in that pile of

paper they didn't fully understand, because there is no going back. Any mortgage document may start out as boilerplate, but all the

different types of mortgages will fool you fast. Deeds of covenants and Deeds of trust can fool you, also. And it isn't that someone might

be out to screw you, but it is just good sense to know what your signing any time.

 

Caveat emptor!

 

I made my rental agent stand-by with me while I read the entire lease line by line.  Since there was no mention of it anywhere, I specifically asked about an HOA- there was none.  The fact that there was no HOA was only more important by my place being walking distance to my school (so I could get some free exercise and save gas money) and the crime rate in the area.  I've seen them get completely out of control for what are petty things.  I'm sure I'm not alone.  Signing onto one that bans firearms would be an absolute no-go with me...and everybody here, I'm sure.  Everybody in that HOA should be cringing that their neighborhood has been declared a gun free zone in the open press.  Maybe a right lawyer showing how the HOA could be found liable for damages and loss resulting from a break-in, or the cost benefit analysis to defend against one in court would get them to change their mind.

 

I make it a rule never to be in a rush to sign anything.  If that means I make a follow on appointment, take a contract out of an office for a little homework instead of signing it there, that's time well spent to me.  Know what you are signing is the best advise anyone can get.  Don't ever be afraid to ask for clarification about something that confuses you from a friend, family or to look it up yourself. 

Edited March 22, 2014 by btq96r

[DaveTN]

Wouldn't life be grand if you could find a place that suited all your needs and allowed you do be close to work? Not everyone has that luxury.

That’s where a good realtor comes in; they would make that happen.
I hope I never have to live where there is an HOA. At my age it’s doubtful.

[teecro]

We are looking to move into a lake front community that has an HOA and this question has aready been raised with our realtor.....

[TNSean]

Not going to happen.

 

Could the HOA take away your freedom of speech and religion?

 

Take away your 4th amendment rights, so they can search your house any time they want?

Edited March 23, 2014 by TNSean

[Guest mds3d]

The news website doesn't display a date. However if you look at when this article was first shared on other sites, the story appears to be from 2007.

 

ex...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-242132.html

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1802913/posts

 

In the interest of the discussion though, 

 

I think HOA's have their place for people who want community managed services (Pool, playground, etc).  Our neighborhood was built around city parks, so we don't really need one.  

I would never agree to a managed homeowners association.  However, some HOA's are democratically managed by the homeowners themselves.  In that case you at least have a voice with the rules being made. 

 

As far as this particular rule, I do wonder about the effect of new HOA rules.  Does anyone's contract state that you agree to all current and future rules.  Otherwise you could just refuse this new rule and wait in your yard cleaning your rifle.

[dawgdoc]

After I closed on my current house and moved in, the developer showed up with a list of covenants that he said should have been given to me at the closing.  None of them were onerous, and most concerned the styles for new construction, but I wonder if there would have been any legal ground if I had needed to fight one of them.  I know for sure it was not among the huge stack of documents at the closing.  

 

I think at this point the property owners could vote to change whatever, but appears that everyone just ignores it.  We never had an HOA; the developer would show up now and then to harass people about things like cutting their yards, removing dead trees, and taking care of the landscaping around the entrance sign.  As far as I know, he never threatened any legal action; he just badgered people (I guess trying to use guilt trips) into doing what he thought would make the street look better.

 

Since the neighborhood consists of one street with four houses and several empty lots, the developer, who owned the empty lots, could have originally out-voted the others.  Now, I think the lots have been sold, and at least two look like nothing could be constructed on them.  Also, the developer screwed up the surveys, so one house was built one foot over their property line.  Can't easily move the house, so I guess the two owners had to reach some type of agreement.  Since the developer caused the mess, he hasn't been back around talking about enforcing covenants.

Edited March 23, 2014 by dawgdoc

[ncldwell]

I was the CFO of my last HOA in Franklin.  Old neighborhood and I'm gone now into a new HOA after a move.  Me and the CEO were next door neighbors and both firearm enthusiasts so we made mods to the legal docs to be a lot more 2nd amendment friendly.  HOA's have there place and similar to all political organizations can be manipulated both for or against depending on who participates.  I've found that most people don't even attend the meetings...then later complain.  I also have a Pit Bull.  Best dog in the world IMO.  Bottom line is I've always been able to work within the HOA to accommodate my lifestyle both dogs and firearms.  If that changes I'll sell and move somewhere it's not a problem.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

While I'm not a realtor, I deal with lease reviews and rental issues on a day to day basis with soldiers and their families. As I recall, the TN Attorney General has opined that weapons CAN be barred from rental property if the lease provides for that restriction. Not sure if that is legal because, and we all know this, federal trumps state which trumps local which trumps lease. Tn state law (Landlord Tenant Act TCA 66-28) does have a good clause in it which stipulates that lessees (renters) can't waive rights unless the law allows for that waiver. The great thing about that is that if the landlord puts a provision in the lease and the provision conflicts with state law, it can't be enforced. 

     What is interesting about this, and I see it all the time, is landlords will wave a lease at a tenant saying, "the lease says you have to do this and you signed it". I am amazed by how many landlords out there (and a lot of lawyers for that matter) are clueless when it comes to the local, state, and federal laws they are supposed to follow in their given profession.

[DaveTN]

As I recall, the TN Attorney General has opined that weapons CAN be barred from rental property if the lease provides for that restriction.

http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2009/op/op09-170.pdf
 

Not sure if that is legal because, and we all know this, federal trumps state which trumps local which trumps lease.

What Federal, state or local law is being violated?

[Reservoir Dog]

I think this article is old, but I will chime in anyway.

 

I live in an HOA neighborhood, and I serve on my HOA board.  While the HOA can regulate things in the common areas/exteriors of the property, they cannot tell people what to do inside their own homes.  So, a rule banning firearms on the property would only apply to the common areas, not the inside their homes.

 

I laughed out loud when the woman said she wanted to give the HOA a "history lesson" on the constitution.  Someone needs to give her one, as the constitution/bill of rights is a restriction on government, not on a private entity.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2009/op/op09-170.pdf
 
What Federal, state or local law is being violated?

Well lets see...both Fed and State constitutions guarantee the right to keep and bear arms, Heller, etc. So therefore, as SCOTUS has determined (and they are the FINAL arbitrator of all constitutional questions...eyeroll...NOT), the second amendment confers the right to keep a weapon in the home for defense. Ergo, any subordinate provision is unenforceable

[Reservoir Dog]

Well lets see...both Fed and State constitutions guarantee the right to keep and bear arms, Heller, etc. So therefore, as SCOTUS has determined (and they are the FINAL arbitrator of all constitutional questions...eyeroll...NOT), the second amendment confers the right to keep a weapon in the home for defense. Ergo, any subordinate provision is unenforceable

 

There is no constitutional violation in this case.  We are talking about rules set by private property owners, not the government.

[DaveTN]

Well lets see...both Fed and State constitutions guarantee the right to keep and bear arms, Heller, etc. So therefore, as SCOTUS has determined (and they are the FINAL arbitrator of all constitutional questions...eyeroll...NOT), the second amendment confers the right to keep a weapon in the home for defense. Ergo, any subordinate provision is unenforceable

Even when you have agreed to the terms in a written contract and the government is not involved in the enforcement?

[bersaguy]

Myself and my opinion is I would not live in Nashboro Village or many areas around it and the crime rate in that area has really elevated since Antioch has become a center for gang activity about 10 years ago without having weapons in my home and on my person...........jmho

[TripleDigitRide]

It's much easier than making crime illegal.

[Dustbuster]

If u live in nashboro village I hope all is good. I wouldn't worry about the homeowners assn I'd buy a steel door w 2 deadbolts and have a contingency plan for neutralizing home invasion turds. As someone posted before its a starting point for many younger couples and individuals but a huge breeding ground for violence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

There is no constitutional violation in this case.  We are talking about rules set by private property owners, not the government.

Think about it for a minute...this is private property but the home which you live in is situated on that property. There are SPECIFIC legal protections you have as a homeowner (not the least of which are 4th amendment protections) which cannot be taken away with the stroke of a pen. If this were the case, for example, an HOA could, hypothetically, put a provision in their bylaws that says your home can be inspected by the association at anytime they choose. While it may be in the bylaws, it would not pass constitutional scrutiny

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

but they play a bluff game.

 

Man, you got that one right! 

 

Just as an example, there is a well known realtor/property management company here in Clarksville whose lease states that breaking a lease under the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA), will be permitted in the event of PCS or Deployment but not in the event of ETS or retirement...uhhh, wrong...those are also, by definition, PCS moves (both federal regulations AND federal case law)...and everytime it comes up I get into the same p***ing contest with the same guy who is a retired vet...shrug. He's wrong and if he does it, by Title 50 USC he is actually committing a criminal act.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

Even when you have agreed to the terms in a written contract and the government is not involved in the enforcement?

There are certain rules/laws/regulations (and TCA 66-28-203 is one of them) which stipulates that a tenant MAY NOT agree to waive protections provided by that chapter unless the chapter specifically allows for that waiver. Therefore, if the landlord puts a provision in the lease that runs contrary to the law, it can't be enforced.

[JayC]

If they run your community...  then find a gun friendly neighbor, go to the next meeting and make a proposal to end your HOA's contract with Ghertner for cause.  Have your neighbor second the motion, and let the community vote on it.

 

Even if the vote looses, it will send a message.

 

"Ghertner and Company"....they run a lot of neighborhoods too, including mine. They have had tons of complaints on management skills before this happened.

 

[JayC]

My bet is you have a morals clause in your contract with them...  might not have to wait until the contract is up to leave them...  Also, just making a stink and threatening to leave now will likely get them to change their stance.

Wow, just Wow.  Got Ghertner HOA in my sub division as well.  I will remember their name when their contract is up.

 

[JayC]

I just put up and antenna and said it was for local TB stations ;)  and those metal guide wires are a safety feature :)

 

HOAs are toxic to Ham Radio also.

 

You sign the contract, and you have signed rights away.

 

Funny story - I built my house about 20 years ago, and proceeded to put up 3 radio towers (and later a 4th).  The HOA went absolutely apesh!t.  I let them rail and threaten me about it for ~18 months, before pointing out to them that they had not read their own paperwork (I had).  My part of the hood was never annexed, and I was ~150' outside of the HOA bounds. I am still pariah.

 

[JayC]

They can and do...  prohibit signs in your front yard...  and can have surprise inspections of your property including the inside....

 

HOA's are mostly evil.

 

Not going to happen.

 

Could the HOA take away your freedom of speech and religion?

 

Take away your 4th amendment rights, so they can search your house any time they want?

 

[tnguy]

I'd add this to the list of reasons I don't do HOAs but honestly, I think there's no more room.

[Chucktshoes]

HOAs are full of busybodies and petty tyrants. If folks want to live under that then they shouldn't be surprised when they get what they asked for.