Ares Armor - ATF raid and seizure of customer information

[morrisster]

Don't know if you all saw this yet.  

 

" If you have purchased an 80% lower receiver from a storefront location or over the Internet from any vendor, I think it is safe to assume that the federal government either has your customer data, or is in the process of trying to obtain your customer data. If you want a truly anonymous 80% lower, pay cash via a private sale, the same as you would with a serialized firearm."
 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/03/17/despite-restraining-order-atf-raids-ares-armory-over-plastic-parts-n1810321
 

http://bearingarms.com/video-atf-raids-ares-armor-with-automatic-weapons-cracks-safe/

Edited March 18, 2014 by morrisster

[Oh Shoot]

It's still anonymous. No number to be found on it. Could be a paperweight.

 

ATF getting the customer records would indicate possible searches of homes of those who bought it. If they decide it's an illegal firearm and you have it, well, put that in your anonymous and smoke it. ;)

 

 

 

Btw, y'all, the main thread on this is at:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/76977-ares-armor-files-restraining-order-against-the-batfe/

 

- OS

[Chucktshoes]

They're going to need to do more than decide it is an illegal firearm. Wasn't that part of the Gun Control Act of 68?

And just having customer records doesn't warrant for a search of your property. Has that ever happened, anyway?

You must have the agents of Burn A Toddlers First confused with people who give a shit about what the law or Constitution says.

 

If the BATF were to go on Maury, it would look something like this:

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwIExmtkrNM[/media]

[morrisster]

They're going to need to do more than decide it is an illegal firearm. Wasn't that part of the Gun Control Act of 68?

And just having customer records doesn't warrant for a search of your property. Has that ever happened, anyway?

has what ever happened, and illegal search by the police?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/02/11/dc-man-set-hearing-after-cops-raid-turned-one-shotgun-shell

[DMark]

One Word.

 

WACO.

[Mark@Sea]

No arrests were made, and no charges filed.

Confiscated lowers were previously ATF approved.

 

Conjecture:  Wanting to suck up to Congressman Ghost Gun (who is trying to pass a law saying 80% receivers are in fact firearms),  ATF first demanded Ares' customer list.  Ares said no, hell no, and knowing how F-troop operates, got a restraining order to stop a BS raid.  BS raid happens anyway - business and homes.  ATF gets the customer list, and takes computers, smartphones, and lowers to teach Ares a lesson - Rspect mah authoritay.

 

Ares will have to spend years and hundreds of times the value of the confiscated materiel/equipment - they'll likely forfeit the stuff because it isn't worth it.

ATF doesn't care either way, as defending in court doesn't come out of their budget, they get to 'have fun', suck up to a politician or two, get a bunch of free 80% lowers for their in-house enthusiasts, and face zero consequences.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

This is why 18USC sect 241 and 242 needs to be re-enforced to immediately strip the authority of any governmental (federal state local) agency/individual who violates that portion of the law. By doing so, they lose all legal authority to act at the time of such violation and may be legally resisted with the level of force necessary to stop the said violation. That said it should be required that the victim of the action can explain why such use of force was warranted and justified.

Edited March 19, 2014 by theconstitutionrocks

[Mark@Sea]

The customer list will be turned over to California DOJ.  Sole purpose for the raid.  F-troop went after the polymer lowers because they needed an excuse for the raid.  If they'd taken just the customer list (which is what they wanted), some decent federal judge would have fed them their own testicles.

[seez52]

what made their 80% lowers any different from the others out there that caused them the trouble? Wonder if AK flats will be next?

[c.a.willard]

There 80 percent lowers use a color plug in the fire control group.  There also have excess material sticking out at the trigger and hammer pin holes to mark where you need to drill.  Though a jig is still recommended, it is possible to accurate mill their receivers using only a drill press.  

 

The issue is in how the lower is made.  Apparently the ATF Feels that since the plug is manufactured separate of the lower itself than at some point in its life the lower is in fact a firearm.  EP specifically designed their manufacturing process to try to alleviate this concern.  They make the blank first and then mold the rest of the 80 percent lower around it.    The plug is made out of a different polymer material that is substantially softer than the lower itself.  Though they do use wings to help secure the plug in place. 

 

Also potentially at issue is the build parties hosted by ares armor where you could buy a plastic receiver, run it through a cnc mill on premises and viola unregistered lower.

Edited March 20, 2014 by c.a.willard

[Oh Shoot]

There 80 percent lowers use a color plug in the fire control group.  There also have excess material sticking out at the trigger and hammer pin holes to mark where you need to drill.  Though a jig is still recommended, it is possible to accurate mill their receivers using only a drill press.  ...

 

 

They come is various colors, chose this one so you can hole locator stubs easier.

 

 

- OS

Edited March 20, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Chucktshoes]

So on the polymer version you don't have to drill out the internals?
I thought that one shown in the video was a demo. Didn't know
that. If that's the case, it's more than 80%.
Those dimples on the side don't mean a thing, though. Just
nitpicking. This is another example of how dumb these laws
are. They might as well outlaw Lowes. Anyone with half a
mind could build several NFA items out of their stock.

Yes, you do have to drill out the internals. The light colored section still has to be drilled/dremeled out. It just gives you a easy to use visual marker of what material needs to be removed.

[seez52]

Now if you could just yank out the plug, that would be slick! ---- and I could see how ATF would frown on that, but if you've still got to mill that out and drill the holes... I'm sure they had some inkling in the back of their mind this was going to be a pushing the envelope issue when they started. This type stuff has been going on forever with home builds and modifications on guns.

[Worriedman]

Meh, they are the BATFE, what matters if their reasons for action are valid...

[TMF]

C'mon guys, just think about how many lives the ATF save by getting all these hunks of innocuous plastic off the streets.  Clearly this is the choice weapon of gangbangers who are in their garage milling these out, then ordering all the parts and tools to assemble them so they can use them in drive bys and stuff.  No gangbanger would just simply buy one off the black market and remove serial numbers, thus giving him the same tool intended for use in illegal activities.

 

But seriously, if there was concern by the ATF of these being used in crime, they shouldn't care, since stupid criminals would screw up the process anyway and build crappy rifles that wouldn't function properly or at all.

 

I know, I know.  This has nothing to do with stopping criminals.  This has to do with stopping otherwise law abiding and moral people from having an inanimate object.

[c.a.willard]

I don't know that the ATF will go after them for the build parties, but they were served with a cease and desist order regarding the customers use of their "tools and knowledge". Ares Armor wrote about it in a news letter in Oct 2013.  If i were Ares Armor it would definitely be something i would be concerned with.  Eventually the ATF is going to try to do something to save face on confiscating all of these.  If they can show that the build parties in conjunction with the marked lower showed "substantial assistance" in building the firearm then they can prove that ares was in the business of manufacturing and distributing firearms.  The ATF has continuously held that the individual must build it themselves without "substantial assistance" (another one of those vague terms that the ATF defines any way they like).  

 

http://aresarmor.com/store/NewsArticle/01November2013

Edited March 20, 2014 by c.a.willard

[Guest semiautots]

Here's the video on how to do it via YouTube:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ