Medal of Honor awarded for race?

[TMF]

 

And I see it and hear it every single day. Regardless of what anyone thinks, what this is, is wrong. NOT the awards, the way it was carried out and the exclusion. 

 

I dont mind negative replies, sometimes I am wrong, other times I am right, and I read every one of them. If I am wrong I will say I am wrong, I am not one of those people who is embarrassed about being wrong. The only thing, you cannot be wrong on your own opinion. It is your opinion, and my opinion is this should have been carried out in a manner that reflected their Heroism, not their race, and there should not have been an exclusion. 

 

Ill stick by that, on the requirements of awarding the Medal, I cannot honestly say 100%, since I do not read the regs daily, any longer. 

 

You can interpret this as you want, but this was not a matter of exclusion.  You're attempting to attach and unrelated case of Lt Connor to the Medals issued to these men.  I get that you think Lt Connor's snub is bull####; I do too.  But it has nothing to do with race.  I've been reading up on it and am still confused by the judge's ruling as it relates to the law passed in the '60s on MoH criteria.  As far as I know his case could still be resubmitted to HRC/Sec of Army through Congress.  The article references a statute of limitations being reached in 2006, but gives no reference to where that statute is.  I can't find it.

 

But, to put that all into context as to what you're saying, you're actually very wrong about this having anything to do with Barack Obama or exclusionary racial bias in favor of non-whites.  You're saying it isn't fair that Connor was rejected on upgrading his DSC and these 24 weren't.  Okay, let's examine that for a second.  First, the statute of limitations was reached in 2006 and the wife of Connor submitted new evidence of eyewitness accounts in 2008.  It seems even then that it could have been waivered through, but the board found no new evidence versus the old stuff, so she was in the same position she would have been in 10 years before.  I'm not saying that's right, but I don't sit on that board.  It seems like the issue has nothing to do with laws and regulations, since it could still be given an exemption.  It appears, for whatever reason, the board just isn't going to reverse its past decisions. 

 

Now, the 24 MoH recipients we're talking about here had their records investigated as a result of law passed in 2002, when Bush was in office and Obama was out community organizing.  Here is some text on that from the Post:

 

"Prompted by a law passed by Congress in 2002, the Pentagon conducted an extensive review to examine past discrimination in Medal of Honor decisions and concluded that 19 men did not receive the honor because of their racial or ethnic backgrounds. The group included 17 Latinos, one African American and one Jewish soldier, according to the military."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/24-veterans-receive-the-medal-of-honor-from-president-obama/2014/03/18/f695f5ac-aeab-11e3-96dc-d6ea14c099f9_story.html

 

Here is the text from the "Valor 24" website that the Army manages:

 

"On Mar. 18, 2014, President Barack Obama presented 24 Army veterans with the Medal of Honor in one of the largest Medal of Honor ceremonies in history. Each of these Soldiers’ bravery was previously recognized by award of the Distinguished Service Cross, the nation’s second highest award; that award was upgraded to the Medal of Honor. Congressional review and the 2002 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) prompted a review of Jewish American and Hispanic American veteran war records from WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War. During the review, records of several Soldiers of neither Jewish nor Hispanic descent were found to display criteria worthy of the Medal of Honor. The 2002 NDAA was amended to allow these Soldiers to be honored with the upgrade - in addition to the Jewish and Hispanic American Soldiers. The White House ceremony on Mar. 18 will recognized these 24 men for their gallantry, intrepidity and heroism above and beyond the call of duty. The United States Army is proud of these Soldiers and glad to see their professionalism, service and sacrifice being recognized again - in full view of a new generation."

http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/valor24/

 

So it appears that while the majority of the recipients were originally downgraded from the MoH due to race, ethnicity or religious preference (19/24), the remaining 5 were individuals had theirs downgraded for reasons other than that, and were also awarded.  It appears that during the Congressional review they found at least 5 guys who were of no minority group who simply got screwed out of their original MoH, kinda like Connor.  You should be happy that they uncovered this, not trying to turn this into a reason to hate on Obama.  So at least 5 of the awardees were white, and only a few of them were black.  The majority were hispanic. 

 

So, I'm having a hard time here understanding why you're making this about Obama, the left and "revisionist history".  Please, I'm curious.  These men were awarded yesterday after reviews into their cases were authorized in the 2002 NDAA.  They've been waiting on this to clear for over a decade, long before anyone outside Chicago knew the difference between Obama and Osama.

 

Let me also leave this here.  Here are the 4 other belated MoH recipients that Obama has presented the award to since he took office:

 

CPT Emil Kapaun (WHITE)

 

Born in Kansas to Czech immigrants in 1916.  As white as they come by modern day standards.  He served in WWII and Korea.  Obama presented this white person's NOK with the MoH on April 11, 2013.  He is also on the path to sainthood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Kapaun

 

SPC-4 Leslie H. Sabo, Jr (WHITE)

 

Born in Austria and drafted into service during the Vietnam War.  Killed a crapload of enemy, wounded several times and finally died by crawling into an enemy position with his own grenade, killing himself and several enemy.  Obama presented this white person's MoH to his NOK on May 16, 2012. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_H._Sabo,_Jr.

 

PFC Henry Svehla (WHITE)

 

Born in New Jersey to immigrant parents.  Threw himself on a grenade to save his buddies.  He was only 20 years old. Obama presented this white person's MoH to his NOK on May 2, 2011.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Svehla

 

PFC Anthony T. Kahoʻohanohano (HAWAIAN ISLANDER... oh geez, this must be based solely on his race!)

 

Born in Hawaii before it was a state, and had 6 brothers.  Out of the 7 boys his parents had, all 7 of them served their country in wartime.  Not all of them made it back.  This guy served in Korea as a machine gun squad leader.  After being blown out of their position, he set up a new defensive with his men, then went back to the old position to retrieve more ammo.  He single handedly held back the enemy from that position before running out of ammo, then using an entreching tool to kill the dozen Chinese commie soldiers they found near his body.  But since he isn't white, I'm assuming the MoH is all bullcrap race related nonsense.  His NOK was presented the MoH in an obviously race related ceremony that Obama put on at the White House on May 2, 2011.  Oh wait, that was the same day as a white guy got one, so maybe this wasn't TOTALLY race related. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_T._Kaho%CA%BBohanohano

 

 

So let me leave you with this.  You're outrage is all your own racial hangups.  Yeah, I get it, the left love to make race an issue, but this ain't got nothing to do with that.  This is a case that has been going on for over a decade.  Obama has nothing to do with it.  The left have nothing to do with it.  Revisionist history have nothing to do with it. 

 

You're upset about Lt Connor getting the snub.  Well here's the deal, after reading up on these it appears that every single last one of these MoH recipients were submitted for the MoH back during action.  They were all downgraded to DSC.  Lt Connor was not recommended for the MoH.  In 1997 his wife lobbied to make a case for it.  Does he deserve the MoH?  I dunno.  If you asked me I'd say "hell yes he does", but he is not in the same category as the rest of these heroes in regard to the regulations.  They were all submitted for MoHs during their respective conflicts.  They all had them denied at upper echelons due to discrimination of some kind, whether that be racial prejudice or just a crappy CoC.  Either way, upon later review the Army decided that the someone along the way got it wrong.  So no, this wasn't exclusionary based on race, it was exclusionary based on regulations.  I assume we'll see many more veterans over the next few decades who have their files reviewed.  There's a lot of folks out there recommended for MoHs who had them dismissed or downgraded.  I'm sure that Congress will have them looked at too.  Hell, look at CPT Swenson, and read the back story on his MoH track.  He got the Medal for the same engagement as a Marine who received his 3 years earlier.  Both cracker white as they come.  Guess what, there's a back story there and it has nothing to do with race.

 

But you can carry on and spread nonsense that this is a racially motivated event.  It isn't.  The only racial motivation here was when their awards were initially downgraded generations ago because the first GO in their command didn't think dark skinned people should be wearing an MoH.  I think it's great that we can finally correct that issue.  So what that Obama gets to parade on TV and get the credit for it?  I don't care.  This isn't for Obama, and other than simply sitting in the White House when these awards were FINALLY processed he had dick to do with it.  As a fellow veteran, I'm pretty upset that you look at this case like that.  The facts don't support anything you're saying.  I've laid them out here quite clearly.  You can choose to be ignorant about it, but I don't see how you could read this post and still feel good about your position.

[Links2k]

I'm glad that some of you saw what I saw. I was very interested to see the responses. These are combat veterans who put it all on the line for this country and someone wants to make it look like a case of " Mexicans, Jews and blacks getting a freebie from Obama". :( Sent from my Obama Phone Edited March 20, 2014 by LINKS2K

[Grunt67]

Whatever the reason, anything Obama does is suspect to me. If they earned it, great, if not, disgraceful.

The only Medal of Honor recipient I know personally, is my squad leader in 'Nam, '67. His was awarded

about a year later. He earned it. I was there. Rough day.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well, since some here have made a weak attempt at painting  me as a racist, I say good. It gives me an opportunity to bring the hypocrisy based on uninformed assumptions that run rampant here to the forefront. First off, I am not a racist. And this post was not intended to be a racist post, it was intended to point out that the President was using a mass awards ceremony to promote :"Racial Justice" while excluding someone who was white.

 

Well let me tell you a story, then a follow up. First off my 4th Great Grandfather was a West African Slave. Brought here by Portuguese Sailors and sold to a family of Georgia Upper Creeks. And I can prove it, because I know who he was. Can any of you black members tell me where YOU came from? He married an upper Creek woman, they had a daughter, she married my 3rd Great Grandfather the Cherokee Andrew _______, served with the Cherokee Rifles during the war of 1812 as did his brothers, out of North Carolina. His son John, my 3rd Great Grandfather, raised my grandfather and my grandfather, born in 03, raised me. Johns wife was a Mulatto. While John was off getting wounded fighting for the Confederacy at Antietam, Gettysburg, Frederick and other famous locations, his wife, my 3rd great grandmother, was back home fighting for her freedom, while he was spending some time at Point Lookout, Maryland. You see, she was a Mulatto, which meant she was considered a "Freedman", not white, not black, not Native American. All of my family except for two family Ancestors are Native Americans. You see, while he was off fighting for his country, five white men raped her. When she became pregnant, and pointed out the man who did it, another relative killed that man, in return, these white men, tore her house down and brought her in front of a Georgia judge in an attempt to take away her freedom because she was not considered white, Native American or Black, she was mostly black, according to them, and if she would have not been able to prove to this judge that she was "mostly Native American", my 3rd great grandfather would have come home from the war, fighting for the Confederacy, to a wife in slavery. Our family owned several tens of thousands of acres of land, twice. Once because it was taken away, and once because they were "allowed" to buy it back from the people who took it. We still own much of that land today. And much of that land is the same timber operation it was 150 years ago, but you see, my name is not my name. Because when they were finally allowed to buy it back, in the State of Georgia, they were not allowed to own land, the only way they could own land was to take the name of the landowners who took their land in the first place, so these adults, had to get adopted and take the landowners name to buy back their own land. Feel free to take a trip to Rhea County to the memorial and read about it. Because my 4th great grandfather was a village spokesman and since he fought with the Cherokee Rifles, with Honor, during the war of 1812, he had a working relationship with Return Jonathan Meigs. he pleaded with Meigs to be able to keep his family on his own land, but Congress said no and in return, they took his farm, his house and his property worth $3000 and gave him a house and 3 acres on the Chatooga river worth $36, a house that they had taken from ANOTHER native American. 

 

My family holds the same name as many families in the same county, same relatives, same everything, "same but different". It took until the 1970's for our and some of those families to reconcile and to this day the same family still holds two separate reunions because of it. 

 

The hypocrisy comes as the many who proclaim to the world to be Conservatives, yet support Liberal ideas consistently, the hypocrisy comes when many can bash the President not for his Politics, but because "He aint black, he has a white mother, he aint white, hes from Kenya" while jumping on this bandwagon. The hypocrisy comes from the many who proclaim to be supporters of the Second Amendment, yet at the same time support taking others rights away or "only certain gun laws" to keep people from having guns because of THEIR uninformed assumptions and opinions. More hypocrisy when talking about using the military for a social experiment, when what you really mean is keeping women out of Combat Arms and gays out of the military, people are just too damned afraid to say it.. Well I have served with homosexuals, and they served as well as anyone else. I dont care what color you are, what your sexual orientation is, whhat gender you  are, none of it. But I do care about your methods, policies, and procedures that you  use to get what you want, and your true end goals.

 

I dont give a s___ if these would have been 50 white men standing up there and one black man who was excluded, or 25 Chinese and one Native American who was excluded, I would have said the exact same thing. The President Politicized the awards ceremony, based on race. 

 

The people who make these uninformed, useless assumptions and comments can say whatever they want concerning Politics, I do not go around bashing blacks, whites, Native Americans or Chinese, or anyone else for their race, gender or sexual orientation, but I do many of their Politics and Policies and will continue to do so, regardless of how some of the fake Conservatives feel about it. I don't go around proclaiming with false dignity that, because I have black and mulatto ancestors and relatives that we deserve reparations, I do not go around proclaiming that I belong to TWO Nations, and I do, and we have, since 1894, and that we deserve reparations, because I dont feel that anyone deserves reparations for something that happened 100 years ago and back, I will sit down to dinner with ANY person, regardless of who they are or what they are, but  if your Politics clash with mine, you will know about it.

 

Many members of my family lived with this BS until the 1970's, but they didnt whine about it. And they werent fakes. My grandfather, in 1872, 88 and 98 refused to sign a pledge in order to get his voting rights back, he was an unreconstructed Confederate, who was not fighting for slavery, and who nearly ended up with a family member BACK in slavery. They became Politicians, Bankers, and prominent landowners throughout the South and the North. I am a member of the SCV, SUV, Sons of the Revolution and these men fought in every single war since the founding. While simultaneously being treated like s__t. While losing their homes, their property and even their identities, they were good Americans, in every case. And so am I. And for those who want to play that race BS, while reading outside the box, unable to understand the point of the post, while throwing out wild, uninformed, assumptions and opinions, feel free to do so, as far as I am concerned you can put those uninformed opinions where they belong.

 

Our family knows a thing or two about a thing or two. We know, because we have been around a long time, and your racially based insults and attacks hold ZERO merit. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TankerHC

[TMF]

Well, since some here have made a weak attempt at painting  me as a racist, I say good. It gives me an opportunity to bring the hypocrisy based on uninformed assumptions that run rampant here to the forefront. First off, I am not a racist. And this post was not intended to be a racist post, it was intended to point out that the President was using a mass awards ceremony to promote :"Racial Justice" while excluding someone who was white.

 

I don't see anyone accusing you of being a racist, but I was pointing out that you have clear racial hangups that is creating your bias here to where you can't see this clearly for what it is.  You repeatedly attributed these awards to Obama and leftist, revisionist history.  None of that is true, and that is something that can be objectively proven and observed.  You may choose to think otherwise, just like you can think that 2 + 2= 5. 

 

You've offered no evidence to support your theory other than an anecdotal story of an American hero who happens to be white and didn't get an MoH.  That isn't evidence of anything, especially when you consider the circumstances for how Lt Connor's MoH recommendation was submitted and how these 24 MoH recipients were submitted.  It's apples and oranges.  To further illustrate it, Obama has presented MoHs to plenty of white people since being in office, but that is moot anyway because Obama has as much to do with selecting and approving Medals of Honor as he does picking out the turkey to pardon at Thanksgiving.

 

You chose to skew your facts, ignore established fact and introduce anectodal evidence as proof of some sinister, racially motivated hijacking of the MoH.  I can only assume that is because you have allowed the racial aspect of these awardees to cloud your judgement, and your hatred for Obama has compounded that.  I don't use the word racist unless it is to describe an actual racist.  Those are people who truly believe that a person's worth is dependent upon their race.  If you could point out where I or anyone else call you a racist please quote it and put it underneath this post. 

 

I came at you with facts.  You even attempted to dismiss my facts, and I came back with references.  You didn't acknowledge those references and admit you were wrong.  You tried to compare the heroism of these 24 MoH recipients to a mass awarding of the Medal to 311 people who did nothing to earn it other than reenlist for it.  Then you refused to believe actual recorded fact.  There is no other explanation for someone who ignores hard, objective facts in an attempt to hold on to their beliefs other than an incredibly unreasonable bias.

 

This isn't personal.  These are facts.  The personal part would be that it pisses me off that a fellow veteran would attempt to diminish the sacrifice of these people by using it as an opportunity to make politically motivated attacks.

[Guest TankerHC]

I don't see anyone accusing you of being a racist, but I was pointing out that you have clear racial hangups that is creating your bias here to where you can't see this clearly for what it is.  You repeatedly attributed these awards to Obama and leftist, revisionist history.  None of that is true, and that is something that can be objectively proven and observed.  You may choose to think otherwise, just like you can think that 2 + 2= 5. 

 

You've offered no evidence to support your theory other than an anecdotal story of an American hero who happens to be white and didn't get an MoH.  That isn't evidence of anything, especially when you consider the circumstances for how Lt Connor's MoH recommendation was submitted and how these 24 MoH recipients were submitted.  It's apples and oranges.  To further illustrate it, Obama has presented MoHs to plenty of white people since being in office, but that is moot anyway because Obama has as much to do with selecting and approving Medals of Honor as he does picking out the turkey to pardon at Thanksgiving.

 

You chose to skew your facts, ignore established fact and introduce anectodal evidence as proof of some sinister, racially motivated hijacking of the MoH.  I can only assume that is because you have allowed the racial aspect of these awardees to cloud your judgement, and your hatred for Obama has compounded that.  I don't use the word racist unless it is to describe an actual racist.  Those are people who truly believe that a person's worth is dependent upon their race.  If you could point out where I or anyone else call you a racist please quote it and put it underneath this post. 

 

I came at you with facts.  You even attempted to dismiss my facts, and I came back with references.  You didn't acknowledge those references and admit you were wrong.  You tried to compare the heroism of these 24 MoH recipients to a mass awarding of the Medal to 311 people who did nothing to earn it other than reenlist for it.  Then you refused to believe actual recorded fact.  There is no other explanation for someone who ignores hard, objective facts in an attempt to hold on to their beliefs other than an incredibly unreasonable bias.

 

This isn't personal.  These are facts.  The personal part would be that it pisses me off that a fellow veteran would attempt to diminish the sacrifice of these people by using it as an opportunity to make politically motivated attacks.

 

Racial hangups? Man, I dont even know how to answer that one.. You need to go look around here a little more. 

 

By the way, saying I have racial hangups is the same ole crap, and exactly the same as calling me a racist, which I say again, holds no merit. point out my "racial hangups", then Ill bring some other threads back to life to show you real racism. 

 

But  I will tell you what I do have, Political hangups, Political hangups with the number of fakes I am beginning to see, too many, self aggrandizing Patriots who support leftist ideas, without "really supporting them".

 

There is one member here, who I dont even need to name, who points them out all the time, and what happens, he gets bashed, asked why he is here (I suppose the Conservatives here should leave the Liberals to their ideas), insulted, and a lot of other things.

 

He gets that, because he is right. 

 

One other point,I dont hate Obama, I have said that a number of times. I hate his Politics. YOU are throwing out so much misinformation, again, based on your speculation about ME, unsupported facts, uninformed personal opinions that your comments are meaningless. I suppose you love Obama? Since I  must hate him, and you accuse me of that, then you must be on the other end of the spectrum. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TankerHC

[TMF]

Racial hangups? MMan, I dont even know how to answer that one.. You need to go look around here a little more. 

 

Okay, clearly I have it wrong.  How would you describe your reasons for denying/ignoring facts, and repeatedly trying to attribute this as being racially motivated by the President and leftist, revisionist history despite being proven otherwise? 

 

Every argument you have brought up to prove your point has been debunked, yet you cling to it by simply ignoring the facts and changing the subject to being offended at anything anyone writes.  At this point it is clear that facts don't matter to you and this is about nothing but believing what you want to believe.  Being a veteran you should do some soul searching for why that is.

[Guest TankerHC]

BTW, I do see where you disagree with me on some things and agree with other things. I dont have a problem with that at all. However, false assumptions, I will not agree with. 

[Links2k]

[quote name="TMF" post="1127274" timestamp="1395290363"] I don't see anyone accusing you of being a racist, but I was pointing out that you have clear racial hangups that is creating your bias here to where you can't see this clearly for what it is. This isn't personal. These are facts. The personal part would be that it pisses me off that a fellow veteran would attempt to diminish the sacrifice of these people by using it as an opportunity to make politically motivated attacks.[/quote] I agree. It's not good to crap on war heroes and expect to get a pass because you add Obama to the mix. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest TankerHC]

Okay, clearly I have it wrong.  How would you describe your reasons for denying/ignoring facts, and repeatedly trying to attribute this as being racially motivated by the President and leftist, revisionist history despite being proven otherwise? 

 

Every argument you have brought up to prove your point has been debunked, yet you cling to it by simply ignoring the facts and changing the subject to being offended at anything anyone writes.  At this point it is clear that facts don't matter to you and this is about nothing but believing what you want to believe.  Being a veteran you should do some soul searching for why that is.

 

The color of valor: 24 minority veterans receive long overdue Medal of Honor

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/medal-of-honor-vets/

 

To correct racial and religious bias, Medal of Honor awarded to 24 vets

I thought the Medal was awarded for Valor, not to correct Racial and Religous bias.

 

Obama to award Medal of Honor to two dozen veterans, including 19 discrimination victims and Lenny Kravitz's uncle

 

Hmm, not HERO's, "Discrimination "VICTIMS"

 

 

President Obama Awards the Congressional Medal of Honor to 24 Army Veterans Who Were Victims of Discrimination

 

THIS is coming from the White House. Not Hero's, not awarding Hero;s for Valor, AWARDING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION VICTIMS!

 

I dont need to go on, THAT is what is pissing me off, that is what the Fk I am talking about, NOT to belittle their VALOR, my first freaking comment was that if a grateful nation determined they deserved it then they deserved it. Maybe I didnt come across that way, maybe my VERY FIRST COMMENT on the awards was overlooked because everyone wants to jump on one bandwagon, this post is about awarding VICTIMS of DISCRIMINATION, completely ignoring another deserving Veteran in that name. NO ONE, should be claiming they are giving an award to VICTIMS OF DISCRIMINATION. That is purely political, nothing other than AWARDING HERO's should be said.  Stading on a podium, recieving this Medal because you are VICTIMS is a disgrace. NOT that they were awarded. But clearly I cannot get through on that. 

[Guest TankerHC]

I agree. It's not good to crap on war heroes and expect to get a pass because you add Obama to the mix. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Who the fk crapped on WAR HERO's? And did I ask for a pass? I dont need a pass, I pointed out a fact. I dont need a pass, I deal with Veterans every week, working through that maze, while listening to people talk shi_ constantly, I have helped Vietnam Veterans who have served honorably, but received less than honorable discharges for trumped up BS get their discharges upgraded and get their benefits back, I interview and add WWII Veterans names to the memorial at every opportunity, and visit them in old folks homes, Im working with TEN OEF and OIF Vets right now to set them up so they can monitor their claims and try to get moved through the system, I spend days on end of my free time doing everything I can to help Veterans because I have and know HOW to work through the maze and I care about them AND I AM ONE.. There is not a Veteran on here, or anywhere who can say I have not thanked them profusely for their service, and when I do, I mean it. I have Veterans call me at all ours of the night, I had one call me this morning at 3AM, to talk, he is living on pennies and has been over 2 years getting through the process, any Veteran at any hour of any day can ask me for anything, and I would give it to them if I had it. And I am not a so called "non profit" and I do not ask anyone for anything. I consider the least I can do tor these Americans who even today get #### on by the very people who are paid to help. I KNOW, because I AM ONE OF THEM. 

 

And I am embarrassed I had to say that. I am highly, highly embarrassed. But by saying what you are saying makes it sound as though I sh__ on Veterans and their honor.  

 

There is no higher Honor than serving this country, and there is no higher honor within that service what these men did, all of them, from pre Revolution to right now today. And to say I crapped on them makes me want to vomit, literally. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TankerHC

[Links2k]

Your first post attempted to use these heroes as pawns in a rant against Obama. There are probably hundreds of combat veterans on TGO and you should have known as a combat veteran yourself that there are lines that you don't cross and that we would call you on this. I'm going to leave it alone now, because whether you will admit it or not your last few post make it clear that you regret this thread. Thanks for your service. Thanks for paving the way. Thanks for continuing to help our brothers in need. Good night! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest TankerHC]

My integrity, my Honor, everything I hold dear has now been brought into question. So I am going to say this. There are people right here who think we should reduce the military budget, that it is OK that the budget has remained flat for three years, apparently not giving a rats ass that if the budget remains flat and does not rise, you do not get paid, that if the budget remains flat or is reduced that the first thing to go is your (OUR) benefits and who have no concept of R&D costs, advanced weapons costs, and equipment costs, and Class I, III and V, while claiming they give a #### that YOU are not getting the equipment you need to fight, there are people here who think there is actually a civilian equivalent to you job, who act like because you (WE) volunteered, that we are less worthy.

 

Well I will tell you all this. I never ever brag, I never say anything about "what I deserve", I never say anything about what I do except to ask Veterans about their experiences so that I can record them for posterity, I at times bring up my service, of which I am proud because many do, I know many here personally who cannot do that but deserve recognition they cannot get due to what they have sacrificed for, the only that I ever say is that we signed contracts that guarantee nothing and we have to constantly fight for what we are due against a wall of opposition. Opposition flying Flags and proclaiming their love for Veterans while signing documents taking everything from those Veterans.

 

If there is a Veteran here who I have ####ed over or #### on please come forward and tell your story, if it is true I will not deny it. I do not do anything publicly, but I do what I can behind the scenes, and I ask nothing in return, I have done my duty, and for the last 15 years I have been trained, worked Officially and Unofficially as a Veterans Service Officer, and I ask for nothing in return, ever, because I have already been paid, in spades, at this very moment I am working with Politicians to get Veterans Medals they earned but were not awarded, I am working with Veterans who have been waiting on claims processing for hundreds and hundreds of days who do not understand the phases of the claims process and think they can file a claim and wait and it will be done, and it will not, I am assisting Veterans of Vietnam who received less than honorable discharges under proven bull#### conditions, who thought it was to late to apply for a decision to the board because it was too late, because they are told that untruth, think that "they" pardoned the draft dodgers but left them hanging but have no idea of what Nixon did for them on his way out, because they are not told and they do not know, I am reorganizing a VFW so that there MIGHT be enough participation to give a Veteran burial honors after I was told that there was a Veteran buried in Bledsoe County who's family could not get an honor guard to show up because there was no honor guard to show up. I am writing legislation, and yes, CITIZENS don't just have to vote, you can write legislation and submit it for consideration and I have had MY legislation in the past come to the floor, I am writing legislation to submit for consideration to get a law changed right here in TN for Veterans unfairly targeted that lose a 2A right for some that have a necessity of something to do, and I guarantee there are some here exercising that right who do not even know they are doing so illegally. And again, I ask for nothing in return, I get NO help because all I ever hear are people are too busy or "We cannot do that", well "I Cannot" is not in my vocabulary, when it comes to Veterans.

 

Well I am too busy too, too busy being 100% disabled from my service, too busy having the entire left side of my body going paralyzed from my service, too busy dealing with post traumatic migraine headaches 24 hours a day 7 days a week, too busy begging for my benefits back while watching everyone else too busy to help me but not too busy to complain about it.

 

You Veterans can say to me #### you, I dont need your help, #### you, your grandstanding, or anything else you want say about me. But I will tell you this, we may disagree, on anything, we may have difference of opinion on anything. anyone can say anything they want to me. I dont care what you think of me, I dont care what war you fought in or didnt fight in, I do not care  if you served one day and had to leave, you are still a veteran. Some of you will know what I am talking about, I get out of bed every single day, sick, sometimes it feels as though I will not make it through the day, I try not to complain, unless I feel a need to ask if anyone knows a way or does something that can stop this, and if I find something, I try to share it. I dont want you pity and I do not care  what anything thinks, but I want you Veterans to know that I wake up like that every single morning, and the first thing I think about every single morning is "What can I do for a Veteran today" and the last thing I think about every single night is "What could I have done today and what can I do tomorrow'

 

Two years ago I, and 5 of my fellow Veterans began a non profit, our mission was to help the widows and children of Armor Veterans receive help when they needed it, I took $15,000 out of my own pocket to start it. There are nearly 10,000 members today. The organization is Incorporated right here in Tennessee, but is International,  our focus was on these young Armor Veterans coming back from the current wars because although there are few tanks there, only a handful of Marine Tankers actually on Tanks in Afghanistan, but Tankers served, in droves, carrying M4's and on their feet, but we would help any Veteran. That organization is USABOT, The United States Army Brotherhood Of Tankers. I never asked for a dime back and did not receive a dime. and do not want anything, those Veterans and Active duty have already paid with their blood sweat and tears. Our board members were not paid $400,000 per year to take photo;s with wounded Veterans with equipment that came from the VA. Our Veterans help our own and were paid nothing.

 

To you Veterans, this is a message and an offer, accept it or not. It is public. It is public because some seem to think I crap on Hero's. That single comment takes away everything that I do and everything that I have done. I never, not once, asked for or even expected a thank you. I am telling you Veterans, I am trained, and I know what I am doing. I know how to make contact with the right people. I know what it takes to move your claim forward and when General Shinseki stated that the process is speeding up, he is not lying, it is, and has, and I know the process. For you veterans, past and present, who have received less than honorable discharges, and I know you are here, that cost you your benefits and job prospects, I cannot make promises on an outcome, but what I can promise is the paperwork can be done correctly, regardless of the time limit, and you WILL BE TOLD you cannot, a lie. For some of you Tennessee Veterans, you are being, or going to be ####ed over by your own state, and many of you will not even know it, that you are doing it to yourselves.

 

To all of you Veterans, I offer my services, free. I may have to drag myself out of bed to do it, I dont care how I feel. Tell me to #### off, thats OK too. But I want you to be aware, I DO NOT "crap on Hero's". 

 

Most of the crapping on Hero's is done by the people who are there to help. 

 

I promise you, I will continue to do my duty, regardless. If you need help and are not getting help, I am open for contact. And nothing will be said to anyone about anything. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Your first post attempted to use these heroes as pawns in a rant against Obama. There are probably hundreds of combat veterans on TGO and you should have known as a combat veteran yourself that there are lines that you don't cross and that we would call you on this. I'm going to leave it alone now, because whether you will admit it or not your last few post make it clear that you regret this thread. Thanks for your service. Thanks for paving the way. Thanks for continuing to help our brothers in need. Good night! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You went far beyond a dispute over the OP which was "in my mind" a political post and had nothing to do with "Thier actions". But take my word for it, I do not crap on hero's and regardless of what you think of me, ;as a Veteran, if you ever came into a time of need, and I was available, I would be there, regardless of anything else. 

[TMF]

. YOU are throwing out so much misinformation, again, based on your speculation about ME, unsupported facts, uninformed personal opinions that your comments are meaningless. I suppose you love Obama? Since I  must hate him, and you accuse me of that, then you must be on the other end of the spectrum. 

 

I'm going to ask you very directly to quote where I put out any misinformation regarding these recipients of the Medal or the process for receiving the award. 

 

While you're at it, point out where anyone called you a racist.

[Guest TankerHC]

I'm going to ask you very directly to quote where I put out any misinformation regarding these recipients of the Medal or the process for receiving the award. 

 

While you're at it, point out where anyone called you a racist.

 

No one called me a racist, the insinuations were enough. And I didnt say anything about your misinformation on the recipients, I said referring to ME. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TankerHC

[TMF]

The color of valor: 24 minority veterans receive long overdue Medal of Honor

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/medal-of-honor-vets/

 

To correct racial and religious bias, Medal of Honor awarded to 24 vets

I thought the Medal was awarded for Valor, not to correct Racial and Religous bias.

 

Obama to award Medal of Honor to two dozen veterans, including 19 discrimination victims and Lenny Kravitz's uncle

 

Hmm, not HERO's, "Discrimination "VICTIMS"

 

 

President Obama Awards the Congressional Medal of Honor to 24 Army Veterans Who Were Victims of Discrimination

 

THIS is coming from the White House. Not Hero's, not awarding Hero;s for Valor, AWARDING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION VICTIMS!

 

I dont need to go on, THAT is what is pissing me off, that is what the Fk I am talking about, NOT to belittle their VALOR, my first freaking comment was that if a grateful nation determined they deserved it then they deserved it. Maybe I didnt come across that way, maybe my VERY FIRST COMMENT on the awards was overlooked because everyone wants to jump on one bandwagon, this post is about awarding VICTIMS of DISCRIMINATION, completely ignoring another deserving Veteran in that name. NO ONE, should be claiming they are giving an award to VICTIMS OF DISCRIMINATION. That is purely political, nothing other than AWARDING HERO's should be said.  Stading on a podium, recieving this Medal because you are VICTIMS is a disgrace. NOT that they were awarded. But clearly I cannot get through on that. 

 

 

Then your thread should focus on how CNN can't report their way out of a wet paper bag.  That I can get on board with.  However, CNN has nothing to do with the awards process.  Short of handing out the Medals, neither does the President.  Could you or anyone else point to an MoH write up that was ever, ever, ever, ever ever denied by any President?  I don't believe that it has ever happened.  By the time it reaches his office the whole thing has been bona fide, just like the Thanksgiving turkey.

 

If this thread was simply about how messed up the media is in regard to focusing on racial issues for the purpose of being devisive, then I can see that.  From the original post until now you've attempted to argue that it is the awarding of the Medals themselves which is the racially motivated issue.  Remove that part from the equation.  It doesn't exist.  I've proven to you and everyone reading this that it doesn't. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by TMF

[Guest TankerHC]

Now I will ask you very directly. Do you honestly believe, that I would crap on any veteran, intentionally or otherwise. After I have said nothing but positive on veterans over the last several years right here. I do nothing but what I can for veterans, and veterans include myself. 

[TMF]

No one called me a racist, the insinuations were enough. And I didnt say anything about your misinformation on the recipients, I said referring to ME. 

 

Okay, and a few posts up I admitted the possibility that I am wrong that you have racial hangups which are causing you to ignore facts, and asked you to provide us with the actual reason.

 

And I'm not insinuating that you're a racist.  I know what a racist is.  I've met a few.  Using a racial slur or disliking a race specific culture doesn't equal a racist.  Being a racist, in my opinion, is an absolute.

[TMF]

Now I will ask you very directly. Do you honestly believe, that I would crap on any veteran, intentionally or otherwise. After I have said nothing but positive on veterans over the last several years right here. I do nothing but what I can for veterans, and veterans include myself. 

 

I don't think you're doing it intentionally.  I think you're allowing other issues to cloud your judgement, and the result is you're disrespecting these heroes.  I'm offended for them.

[Guest TankerHC]

Then you're thread should focus on how CNN can't report their way out of a wet paper bag.  That I can get on board with.  However, CNN has nothing to do with the awards process.  Short of handing out the Medals, neither does the President.  Could you or anyone else point to an MoH write up that was ever, ever, ever, ever ever denied by any President?  I don't believe that it has ever happened.  By the time it reaches his office the whole thing has been bona fide, just like the Thanksgiving turkey.

 

If this thread was simply about how messed up the media is in regard to focusing on racial issues for the purpose of being devisive, then I can see that.  From the original post until now you've attempted to argue that it is the awarding of the Medals themselves which is the racially motivated issue.  Remove that part from the equation.  It doesn't exist.  I've proven to you and everyone reading this that it doesn't. 

 

NO, it isnt about CNN, it isnt about the recipients getting the award.. I am still trying to figure out, did no one read the second sentence of the OP? I agree with you, about not getting on board with CNNs crap. But playing this up at the WH, all the major news outlets proclaiming they are being awarded for racial discrimination, calling them victims, and the exclusion, pissed me off. 

[Guest TankerHC]

I don't think you're doing it intentionally.  I think you're allowing other issues to cloud your judgement, and the result is you're disrespecting these heroes.  I'm offended for them.

 

Well thats where we differ, I am offended by the way the whole thing was promoted and carried out. This should have been purely military, focused on Heroism, with the President awarding, I found very few reports of their Heroism, I found many reports of their racial victimization. That is what I find offensive. Hence the title. 

[TMF]

NO, it isnt about CNN, it isnt about the recipients getting the award.. I am still trying to figure out, did no one read the second sentence of the OP? I agree with you, about not getting on board with CNNs crap. But playing this up at the WH, all the major news outlets proclaiming they are being awarded for racial discrimination, calling them victims, and the exclusion, pissed me off. 

 

You've repeatedly argued that it was this administration responsible for the awards given and that it is exclusive.  I pointed to the 2002 NDAA that authorized the review into the records of these 24 people.  Was Obama involved in that review or something?  What does Obama have to do with this?  Also, it isn't exclusive.  You have failed to show how this excluded anyone based on race.  Lt Connor has nothing to do with this.  His award was submitted and denied in a completely different manner, just like hundreds of other MoH submittals for people of every race, color and creed. 

 

I would go so far as to point out that there were 5 other non-ethnic awardees who had their records reviewed and were upgraded to an MoH, because of some mistake from the original submittal, so that debunks the idea that this was exclusionary.  Then I pointed out how there have been 4 other MoH belated MoH awards issued since Obama took office which were authorized review under similar NDAA strap hangers.  For some reason you haven't acknowledged any of that.  Why?

[Guest TankerHC]

You've repeatedly argued that it was this administration responsible for the awards given and that it is exclusive.  I pointed to the 2002 NDAA that authorized the review into the records of these 24 people.  Was Obama involved in that review or something?  What does Obama have to do with this?  Also, it isn't exclusive.  You have failed to show how this excluded anyone based on race.  Lt Connor has nothing to do with this.  His award was submitted and denied in a completely different manner, just like hundreds of other MoH submittals for people of every race, color and creed. 

 

I would go so far as to point out that there were 5 other non-ethnic awardees who had their records reviewed and were upgraded to an MoH, because of some mistake from the original submittal, so that debunks the idea that this was exclusionary.  Then I pointed out how there have been 4 other MoH belated MoH awards issued since Obama took office which were authorized review under similar NDAA strap hangers.  For some reason you haven't acknowledged any of that.  Why?

 

No actually I have acknowledged that. In admittedly that the awards requirements may have changed and that I no longer read the regs on a daily basis. Or rarely. Under the old system, 2 years from act, 3 witnesses, afterwards brought to the Board of Corrections for review. Further evidence gathered etc. No longer that way. 

[TMF]

Well thats where we differ, I am offended by the way the whole thing was promoted and carried out. This should have been purely military, focused on Heroism, with the President awarding, I found very few reports of their Heroism, I found many reports of their racial victimization. That is what I find offensive. Hence the title. 

 

Every MoH ceremony has been like that since I was old enough to watch them.  Lots of fan fare; the way it should be.  It is a big deal, and I get a warm fuzzy when it is made a big deal.  I also like to hear about people who have been wronged in the awards process be vindicated.  Doesn't matter to me why they got screwed initially; getting screwed is the problem.  So there were MoH submittals on guys that got denied due to race.  There are also submittals that got denied because the GO in the CoC was a douche and didn't like the guy.  Both are criminal as far as I'm concerned, and I like it when stuff like that gets fixed.

 

Right now I know a few guys who should have a minimum of a Silver Star.  They had their awards downgraded for stupid reasons.... really stupid reasons.  If those reasons happened to be racial I don't suppose it would piss me off any more or less.  I would just want to see a wrong righted. 

 

The press is of no consequence in this.  They are gonna latch on to racial aspects of stories because divisive news sells more clicks on their website.  Got it, the press sucks.  I don't see Obama giving this any more or less attention than any other MoH ceremony he has done.  I've watched all the ones that I could.  In this case there were 24 all getting awarded simultaneously.  That would be significant no matter the circumstances.

 

At any rate, the award itself was not exclusionary.  Obama had nothing to do with who got what and when.  His only say in the matter would have been when the ceremony took place, and even then, that would be his schedule guy that figures all that stuff out.  In regards to an MoH ceremony, the President is of no consequence.  The recipient is going to get it one way or the other, and the President will always, ALWAYS, be the less significant character in the room.