URGENT - Permit-less Car Carry in the Senate Tomorrow

[wk05]

$50/piece ?  If a HCP Holder pays $115/ 4 years then it ought to be a hell of a lot more than that!  Say - $15k, the lowest cost it would take to offset the court's cost of having a HCP holder carry past the sign take a case to trial?  

[tartanphantom]

Actually no, we got hammered in 1870, when the "Intent to go armed" clause was introduced, and the Citizens of Tennessee lost their Right to bear arms, all in one fell swoop as they say.

 

And thanks largely to a "Jim Crowe" mentality by the powers that be, it has pretty much remained in place to this day. While the original intent may have been passed under the guise of preventing Southern insurrection during the period of Reconstruction, it was not aimed only at white Tennesseans.

Representative Steve McDaniel's recent comments in the Memphis Flyer are indicative that this mentality still remains with some people. In their eyes, having a pay-to-play (e.g.-- permit) system helps keep "undesirables" from exercising a right to self defense, since the poorest in society usually can't afford to pony up the dough, or they have blemishes on their conduct records. I find the whole "OMG! A black man with a gun!" mentality to be utterly insulting to anyone with a grain of reason and common sense.

Sorry, Rep. McDaniel, it doesn't take a freakin' genius to read between your lines.

 

 

Apologies in advance for this slight de-rail, I know this is the Car-carry thread, but regarding the general OC bill, this is how they all voted-- for the record (name links go to each Rep's Legislative profile page):

 

HB2409 by VanHuss - FINANCE, WAYS & MEANS SUBCOMMITTEE:
Recommended for passage - refer to: Finance, Ways & Means Committee 4/10/2014
Failed
          Ayes................................................1
          Noes...............................................10

          Representatives voting aye were: Hawk -- 1.
          Representatives voting no were: Alexander, Armstrong, Brooks K, Camper, Fitzhugh, Harrison, McCormick, McDaniel, Odom, Roach -- 10.

 

Oddly enough, Charles Sargeant did not record a vote-- guess he figured it wasn't needed, or perhaps he was in cahoots to kill another bill in another committee somewhere that day.

 

Plain and simple, this was not government, this was politics. At least THREE NRA members in the "no" vote column... They are officially "Fudds" as far as I'm concerned.

 

Now regarding the car-carry, we can only hope that Haslam doesn't veto it-- and since the legislature will likely be out of session before the end of the signing deadline, I'd say there's a very strong chance that he may indeed put the axe to car-carry as well.

Still hoping for the best, though.

Edited April 16, 2014 by tartanphantom

[Worriedman]

And thanks largely to a "Jim Crowe" mentality by the powers that be, it has pretty much remained in place to this day. While the original intent may have been passed under the guise of preventing Southern insurrection during the period of Reconstruction, it was not aimed only at white Tennesseans.

 

Actually, a closer study of the factors and players of the time, show that Southern insurrection was not the reason for the Jim Crow genre of laws, but was rather, the result of Democrats still in positions of power across the Southern States making sure that the recently freed slaves were not afforded the opportunity to arm themselves.  The Jim Crow laws are all State, not Federal, issues.

 

And you were 100% correct, we still have our Jim Crow laws on the books in TN, TCA 39-17-1307 or the "intent to go armed" clause is the snake in the grass put there to criminalize all but Sheriff's friends and political buddies who could and did get around the laws with respect to carrying firearms.

[tnguy]

If Haslam doesn't like it, he'll have House Finance committee find a way  to put a financial burden on that is more than they'd take in by enacting it!

 

- OS

 

Maybe write it so that whatever it costs, it's covered by the fee.

[300winmag]

Just get rid of the whole silly fine over a sign and forget it.  Most states do not fine people with licenses over signs.  What does it accomplish in TN?  Absolutely nothing but gives someone ammo to hassle someone.

[JAB]

Never mind.  I just re-read the old law and the new bill/law and answered my own question.

Edited April 17, 2014 by JAB

[jh225]

While I am behind 2A way more than the average person, I can not help but to cringe at the mention of this law being a "good" thing.

 

The fact that there are people who currently have a CHL and the people that will carry in a vehicle if the law passes, that leave a weapon in their car is just plain stupid, period.

 

Never, ever do you want to be the one who's weapon and/or car is stolen and said weapon is used in a crime or heaven forbid, the murder of a child. Try explaining that one away. And even though you most likely won't be charged, you will definitely be sued. And worst of all, how could you live with yourself?

[dcloudy777]

While I am behind 2A way more than the average person, I can not help but to cringe at the mention of this law being a "good" thing.

 

The fact that there are people who currently have a CHL and the people that will carry in a vehicle if the law passes, that leave a weapon in their car is just plain stupid, period.

 

Never, ever do you want to be the one who's weapon and/or car is stolen and said weapon is used in a crime or heaven forbid, the murder of a child. Try explaining that one away. And even though you most likely won't be charged, you will definitely be sued. And worst of all, how could you live with yourself?

 

The car itself can do far more damage than any gun inside it... maybe we should all just give up driving, so nobody can steal our cars and hurt someone.  

[jh225]

The car itself can do far more damage than any gun inside it... maybe we should all just give up driving, so nobody can steal our cars and hurt someone.

That's you reasoning?

And that right there is the perfect reason the anti's have such an easy time against us.

[dcloudy777]

No, the reason why anti's have such an easy time is because even people who say they are 2nd Amendment supporters still place the blame for violence on the wrong party.  Do you blame the manufacturer of the gun?  Does the potential for irresponsible behavior justify the denial of our rights?

 

I'm going to come out against anyone who comes out against this removal of an unconstitutional law, whatever their reasoning.  Period.

[tartanphantom]

While I am behind 2A way more than the average person, I can not help but to cringe at the mention of this law being a "good" thing.

 

The fact that there are people who currently have a CHL and the people that will carry in a vehicle if the law passes, that leave a weapon in their car is just plain stupid, period.

 

Never, ever do you want to be the one who's weapon and/or car is stolen and said weapon is used in a crime or heaven forbid, the murder of a child. Try explaining that one away. And even though you most likely won't be charged, you will definitely be sued. And worst of all, how could you live with yourself?

 

 

By using the logic in your argument, it implies that we should not keep firearms in our home either...

Heaven forbid that someone break into one's home, steal a gun, and use it in the commission of a crime. Again by your logic, one may not be charged with the commission of a crime, but one may still face the possibility of a lawsuit. Try explaining that one away...

Most consumer-quality gun safes are no more secure than a locked vehicle-- a sawz-all with a proper blade  and a crowbar can make speedy work of many so-called gun safes-- just like a slim-jim and a screwdriver can do for a car.

Sorry, but a straw-man argument doesn't work in this situation. The risk for theft of a firearm is certainly not limited to automobiles.

I'll just have to agree to disagree with your logic on this one. I'm sure you have your personal reasons for concern and I respect that, but the theoretical example you give doesn't really work as a valid reason for not being able to defend oneself while traveling.

 

Oh, and even though I disagree with you on this, thank you for your LEO service (really). :usa:

Edited April 17, 2014 by tartanphantom

[monkeylizard]

Don't stop there. Any store that sells guns is stupid. They could get burglarized or robbed and those guns could be used in a crime.

[TMF]

[quote name="jh225" post="1139796" timestamp="1397746499"]While I am behind 2A way more than the average person, [/quote] I know. That's the problem. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[wk05]

Why should I be disarmed because I can't get an HCP. My vehicle is an extension of my home - so you obviously are not pro-2A and might as well be there with Haslam picking and choosing the 2A bills that you like.

[300winmag]

Car break ins are pretty common in bigger cities.  I would rather have a gun on me where it can't be stolen instead of being left in a car.

[JayC]

While union troops were performing mock executions on state legislators to get them to pass and approved laws they didn't believe in ;(

 

Actually no, we got hammered in 1870, when the "Intent to go armed" clause was introduced, and the Citizens of Tennessee lost their Right to bear arms, all in one fell swoop as they say.

 

[TMF]

[quote name="300winmag" post="1139843" timestamp="1397756400"]Car break ins are pretty common in bigger cities. I would rather have a gun on me where it can't be stolen instead of being left in a car.[/quote] That's what's awesome about liberty! You can choose to do that! The opposite of liberty is taking away that choice. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited April 17, 2014 by TMF

[JAB]

Don't stop there. Any store that sells guns is stupid. They could get burglarized or robbed and those guns could be used in a crime.

 

People probably shouldn't carry guns on their persons, either.  After all, if someone hit you over the head, took your gun and used it in a crime you might be sued.  Even if you weren't, how could you live with yourself?  That gun might be used to kill a child.

 

So we should ban all guns right now - starting with banning them from cars but obviously moving on to banning them from anywhere else that they 'might' be stolen, which is pretty much everywhere.  Hey, it's for the CHILLLLLLLDDDDRRRREEEENNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!    :panic:

[dcloudy777]

Car break ins are pretty common in bigger cities.  I would rather have a gun on me where it can't be stolen instead of being left in a car.

 

Okay, would you rather have it in the car with you or at home? 

[Worriedman]

While union troops were performing mock executions on state legislators to get them to pass and approved laws they didn't believe in ;(

Well, actually JayC, the Union Troops were not involved in the re-writing of the Constitution, that was handled by the Democrats that were in effect still in charge of the Tennessee political scene.  Union Troops were Republican for the most part, (Party of Lincoln, remember?) and they did in fact hammer away at the GA from time to time, but, they were not involved in giving the GA the power to regulate arms, that was the KKK's buddies. 

[Twitch]

While I am behind 2A way more than the average person, I can not help but to cringe at the mention of this law being a "good" thing.

 

The fact that there are people who currently have a CHL and the people that will carry in a vehicle if the law passes, that leave a weapon in their car is just plain stupid, period.

 

Never, ever do you want to be the one who's weapon and/or car is stolen and said weapon is used in a crime or heaven forbid, the murder of a child. Try explaining that one away. And even though you most likely won't be charged, you will definitely be sued. And worst of all, how could you live with yourself?

 

Holy talking points!  If you consider this law not to be a "good thing", then you would most certainly find my views on the second amendment "extreme".  And I would agree with those above, by your way of thinking you probably shouldn't own any firearms at all.  Break-ins happen everyday.

 

Those comments sound like a Brady Campaign ad.  Very sad to see on a firearm based board.

[jh225]

Holy talking points!  If you consider this law not to be a "good thing", then you would most certainly find my views on the second amendment "extreme".  And I would agree with those above, by your way of thinking you probably shouldn't own any firearms at all.  Break-ins happen everyday.

 

Those comments sound like a Brady Campaign ad.  Very sad to see on a firearm based board.

 

Sad? No, sensible.

 

What is the point of carrying a weapon in the car with you when you are just going to leave it there when you get out of the car? You know the odds of being carjacked? Traffic accident in which someone pulls a gun? Again HUGE odds against that. Or are you going to play superman and stop a mugging that you see? Oh wait, you can't leave the car with the gun. Or hows about when you are standing in line at the 7-11 and the guy that just walked in puts a gun to your head. Is that gun you left in the car going to help you then? Nope, didn't think so.

 

Either get the HCP and carry all the time or don't get it and be don't carry.

 

Bringing the 2A rights into the argument for or against is pointless. If the lawmakers that are in place wanted to act according to the Constitution, we would already have no permit needed carry. Since that ain't gonna happen, go and get a HCP and stop leaving the damn weapon in the car where it is absolutely useless to you unless the big bad man comes to your window demanding the car which has less odds than hitting the lottery or being struck by lightning.

[dawgdoc]

Just because you have permit, doesn't mean the gun is always with you. Especially in Tennessee, there are many places where I might be forced to leave my gun in the car. Is your solution to violate a gun-free zone, or just not carry that day if I want to go to the mall, the zoo, or city hall?

[wk05]

Sad? No, sensible.

 

What is the point of carrying a weapon in the car with you when you are just going to leave it there when you get out of the car? You know the odds of being carjacked? Traffic accident in which someone pulls a gun? Again HUGE odds against that. Or are you going to play superman and stop a mugging that you see? Oh wait, you can't leave the car with the gun. Or hows about when you are standing in line at the 7-11 and the guy that just walked in puts a gun to your head. Is that gun you left in the car going to help you then? Nope, didn't think so.

 

Either get the HCP and carry all the time or don't get it and be don't carry.

 

Bringing the 2A rights into the argument for or against is pointless. If the lawmakers that are in place wanted to act according to the Constitution, we would already have no permit needed carry. Since that ain't gonna happen, go and get a HCP and stop leaving the damn weapon in the car where it is absolutely useless to you unless the big bad man comes to your window demanding the car which has less odds than hitting the lottery or being struck by lightning.

 

What's the point of carrying a weapon in the car with you?  Because I would have no other way of carrying.  Your comment of "either go get an HCP and carry all the time or don't get it" is asinine.  It's really sad that you have the NRA logo on your profile and counteract the work that they do to promote said legislature...  As I've stated before in this thread, this is a HUGE help to those of us who aren't 21 yet, and therefore can't get an HCP - just because I'm not old enough to buy a beer doesn't mean my life has any less chance of needing a gun in my vehicle.  Your last paragraph truly amazes me - I could easily apply the same laws the anti-gunners use to carrying everyday (i.e. the odds of you needing your gun are less than winning the lottery or being struck by lightning).  

 

Bringing 2A rights into this is absolutely reasonable as its been probably the biggest expansion of the right in TN since they passed the HCP legislature long ago.  Next time you go to think about any expansion of rights to the Firearms Community, you might want to look at it from the point of view of those who it will help - OR go call the Brady Campaign...  

[teecro]

 

Either get the HCP and carry all the time or don't get it and be don't carry.

And just what is your solution to the myriad of locations that we all go into everyday where we are not allowed to carry regardless of permit? Post Office comes to mind as well as many many other locations... If someone breaking into my car and steals a gun that I'm forced to leave behind as a law abiding citizen I will be upset over the violation of my personnel space but I'll not bat an eye over how it is ultimately used as after all I'm not the one who broke the stupid law in the first place... Apply your logic to our homes and it would suggest that we should not leave our guns at home alone either!