URGENT - Permit-less Car Carry in the Senate Tomorrow

[wk05]

Well, today was the day the law took effect!  I wonder how many tennesseans took advantage of possibly the greatest advance in TN Firearms statutory law since the HCP came around?

[Worriedman]

Will be interesting to see how LE responds.

[wk05]

Hopefully no encounters with LE will ensue within the coming months!

[Oh Shoot]

Well, today was the day the law took effect!  I wonder how many tennesseans took advantage of possibly the greatest advance in TN Firearms statutory law since the HCP came around?

 

I see it as the greatest advance since possessing a loaded firearm became illegal in the first place. Unlike the HCP it's a nod to actual constitutional carry -- even though it's still once removed from carry on the person it's the first actual universal carry freedom in public of any kind since 1870.

 

- OS

[Worriedman]

I see it as the greatest advance since possessing a loaded firearm became illegal in the first place. Unlike the HCP it's a nod to actual constitutional carry -- even though it's still once removed from carry on the person it's the first actual universal carry freedom in public of any kind since 1870.

 

- OS

Agreed.

[JayC]

I'm curious if anybody in the LE community realizes 39-17-1351(t) doesn't apply to the new law?  It only applies to permit holders.

 

Will be interesting to see how LE responds.

Edited July 2, 2014 by JayC

[eRay]

Well, today was the day the law took effect!  I wonder how many tennesseans took advantage of possibly the greatest advance in TN Firearms statutory law since the HCP came around?

 

I'd bet 9 out of 10 Tennesseans do not even know about it. The news media has covered some of the other legislation taking effect July 1, but not a word about legally carrying in your car. If not for this forum and the NRA, I would not be aware of it.

[tnguy]

I wonder if an awareness campaign might be in order. I might be willing to throw some resources into it.

[Oh Shoot]

I'm curious if anybody in the LE community realizes 39-17-1351(t) doesn't apply to the new law?  It only applies to permit holders.

 

Are police powers regarding weapons not addressed in any other part of TCA?

 

- OS

[wk05]

Honestly, I'm not upset the news has let it be. The last thing I'd care to see is it plastered all over the news about the carnage that will ensue after it becomes law... I'll happily inform those who may have an active interest in car carry, though!

[eRay]

Honestly, I'm not upset the news has let it be. The last thing I'd care to see is it plastered all over the news about the carnage that will ensue after it becomes law... I'll happily inform those who may have an active interest in car carry, though!

 

It might be a good thing to have it plastered all over the news. My son-in-law is a police officer and neither he nor his fellow officers were aware of it until I let them know. I'd hate to see someone arrested unfairly due to law enforcement not knowing about the new law. Charges would be dismissed, but that would probably be after a ride to jail handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser. I say educate everyone about it.

[Chucktshoes]

It might be a good thing to have it plastered all over the news. My son-in-law is a police officer and neither he nor his fellow officers were aware of it until I let them know. I'd hate to see someone arrested unfairly due to law enforcement not knowing about the new law. Charges would be dismissed, but that would probably be after a ride to jail handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser. I say educate everyone about it.

I informed a couple of LE friends of mine about it in the last couple of weeks. Neither one had seen any information at all come through the official departmental channels. That was for MPD and SCSO. I found that more than a little bit unsettling to be honest.

[Oh Shoot]

I informed a couple of LE friends of mine about it in the last couple of weeks. Neither one had seen any information at all come through the official departmental channels. That was for MPD and SCSO. I found that more than a little bit unsettling to be honest.

 

Me too, but on the other hand I ceased being surprised about government ineptitude at any level a long time ago.

 

- OS

Edited July 2, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

My friend is a LEO for a small department outside Knoxville. Recently, he admitted that he has no idea what all the laws are surrounding the carrying of firearms. 

 

He also stated he hates open carry. None of which was surprising.

[TMF]

[quote name="Erik88" post="1164674" timestamp="1404330548"]My friend is a LEO for a small department outside Knoxville. Recently, he admitted that he has no idea what all the laws are surrounding the carrying of firearms. He also stated he hates open carry. None of which was surprising.[/quote] He'd get an education when he attempts to have someone charged with a crime that doesn't exist. I've heard many stories first hand and here on TGO regarding officers who warn lawful carriers they are breaking the law. I'm not one to lawyer from the side of the road, but if an officer tells me it is illegal to do something that is actually legal, I have no issue informing they don't know the law. I'm surprised when I hear stories of officers telling people they are breaking some law in regard to carry, yet they don't cite or arrest the individual. That tells me the officer either isn't confident enough regarding the law, in which case I would educate him and provide him with reference, or the officer knows the law but doesn't agree with it, in which case I would encourage the officer to call an adult to the scene or take me to jail. There was one I was reading not too long ago where an officer insisted that having a round in the chamber (of a pistol) was against the law (for permit holders). The officer unloaded the weapon and returned it to the driver. I would have told the guy he was wrong, then informed him that I will load it as soon as he walks away. If a cop wants to take someone to jail for a made up law it will only inconvenience me for a few hours. He has a lot more to lose. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JayC]

Nope.  39-17-1351(t) is the only place that I've ever seen regarding disarming a citizen not incident to arrest.  Since the new law isn't a defense but an exception, I don't see how taking your firearm back to their car for safe keeping would be anymore legal than taking your laptop/tool box during a traffic stop for safe keeping.

 

Some of the officers will try to pull the 'you *might* be a prohibited person' trick, but under current case law that shouldn't hold water.

 

Are police powers regarding weapons not addressed in any other part of TCA?

 

- OS

Edited July 4, 2014 by JayC

[DaveTN]

I informed a couple of LE friends of mine about it in the last couple of weeks. Neither one had seen any information at all come through the official departmental channels. That was for MPD and SCSO. I found that more than a little bit unsettling to be honest.

 
 

Me too, but on the other hand I ceased being surprised about government ineptitude at any level a long time ago.
 
- OS

 

My friend is a LEO for a small department outside Knoxville. Recently, he admitted that he has no idea what all the laws are surrounding the carrying of firearms. 
 
He also stated he hates open carry. None of which was surprising.

When I was a cop we had two very large binders that contained Departmental Operating Procedures and notifications. When we had major changes in the law every Officer received an envelope with the changes and how they impacted our operating procedures documented. They were discussed in the daily squad meetings and at training seminars. We were required to keep them up to date. Does that not happen in your friends departments?

Is it a case of the Officers not being notified and properly trained or of them just not paying attention to the information they are given?

[wk05]

Well, I always keep a copy of the updated TCA codes related to firearms in my vehicle, or whenever I travel with firearms.  Here lately however, I've doubted their usefulness to a LEO who already won't acknowledge the law, much less after being handed a copy of it from a 20 year old.  As for now, Im just quietly enjoying and exercising my right to carry in my vehicle, and going about my business.  

[DaveTN]

Well, I always keep a copy of the updated TCA codes related to firearms in my vehicle, or whenever I travel with firearms.  Here lately however, I've doubted their usefulness to a LEO who already won't acknowledge the law, much less after being handed a copy of it from a 20 year old.  As for now, Im just quietly enjoying and exercising my right to carry in my vehicle, and going about my business.

I carried a copy of both the Criminal Code and the Vehicle Code in my pursuit case. If I wasn’t sure; I read the statute, if someone was telling me the law had changed, I would have simply asked for a Command Officer. All seems pretty simple to me for someone that does their job. My point is that if a law change as big as allowing guns in cars to all citizens takes place, and an Officer is not aware of it, there is a serious problem, either with that Officer or with his Department. This is the information age; there is no excuse for not knowing something this major.

I wouldn’t care if I was handed a copy of the law from a 20 or an 80 year old, if I don’t know what’s in it; I’m not doing my job.

Now I will say this… you may not agree with the Officers interpretation of some given law; that’s a case for the courts. But not knowing basic law (gun possession is pretty basic) is unacceptable.

[tnhawk]

For the safety of the citizens as well as the police officers, their departments should be certain they are knowlegeable of the current laws.

Edited July 5, 2014 by tnhawk

[wk05]

Times Free Press had an article out today on it.  Quite interesting reading the comments on their FaceBook post.  

 

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jul/09/new-gun-rights-law-takes-effect/

[JAB]

Times Free Press had an article out today on it.  Quite interesting reading the comments on their FaceBook post.  

 

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jul/09/new-gun-rights-law-takes-effect/

 

Thanks for the link.  It never ceases to amaze me how far some people have their heads crammed up their backsides when it comes to what a legal gun owner will do vs. what a thug criminal is willing to do.  Case in point, this quote from the new police chief in Chattanooga, from the article:

 

 

But, Fletcher said Tuesday, Chattanooga "is plagued by a number of violent crimes that involve handguns" and criminal gang members.

"This law will make it easier for people who are up to nefarious purposes to carry a gun, to go commit violence," Fletcher said. "That's not a news blast to anybody. If people are allowed to carry guns they will carry them both for good and for ill."

 

So, then, before this bill went into effect criminal gang members who did not have an HCP never carried loaded guns in their cars?  Really?  I mean, Fletcher sites 'criminal gang members' having loaded firearms in their car as a result of the bill as being a potential problem so he is basically saying that such criminal gang members wouldn't carry loaded firearms in their vehicles if not for this law.  Why do so many people - especially, apparently, those in law enforcement careers - seem to fail to grasp the meaning of the word 'criminal', as in people who break or ignore the law?  The only folks who will carry under the provisions of the new law who weren't doing so, already, are people who do not wish to break the law - i.e. non criminals.  The old smoke and mirrors trick of insinuating that such laws will have an effect on criminals' behavior is a load of horse manure.

Edited July 14, 2014 by JAB

[wk05]

Well, Fletcher is just doing too great of a job curbing crime in Chattown...  Wasn't it three shootings within one hour earlier this weekend, I'll find a link.  Not to mention his first week on the job, there were three homicides within 48 hours - sounds like its about damn time law abiding citizens can protect themselves in their vehicles.  Chattanooga is a rough city, and sometimes, you just cannot avoid going through the rough parts of it.