URGENT - Permit-less Car Carry in the Senate Tomorrow

[monkeylizard]

Has anyone heard any rumors as to when Haslem might sign this. I have my hopes up but nothing is for certain until the fat lady sings or in this case the governor signs.

 

Isn't there a time limit after being passed in the house and senate where it becomes law even without his signature?

[Oh Shoot]

Isn't there a time limit after being passed in the house and senate where it becomes law even without his signature?

 

10 days not counting Sundays

[wk05]

We're approaching that pretty rapidly. Can't wait till it becomes law. Too bad we have to wait till July 1st.

[TrickyNicky]

We're approaching that pretty rapidly. Can't wait till it becomes law. Too bad we have to wait till July 1st.

It'll be here before you know it , and the wait gives you plenty if time to stock up on extra handguns. You'll be loosing a lot with all those car break ins. ;)

I'm going to use the time to hopefully get a Glock 19. Seems like it would be the perfect car gun, especially when paired up with the keltec sub2K. I've already got some mags for it too, just seems to be the logical choice.

[Oh Shoot]

We're approaching that pretty rapidly. Can't wait till it becomes law. Too bad we have to wait till July 1st.

 

Not sure what happens if he vetoes it after Session adjourns, though. Aren't they about done? I guess they have to wait till next session to override or not, or do they have to start over?

 

There's no "pocket veto" in TN though.

 

- OS

[wk05]

It'll be here before you know it , and the wait gives you plenty if time to stock up on extra handguns. You'll be loosing a lot with all those car break ins. ;)

I'm going to use the time to hopefully get a Glock 19. Seems like it would be the perfect car gun, especially when paired up with the keltec sub2K. I've already got some mags for it too, just seems to be the logical choice.

 

My 19 will most likely be my vehicle gun as well  ;)

 

OS - that is what I am concerned about.  I believe for the most part that Sessions are about adjourned, and I can see Haslam trying to veto it.  Anybody know what the course of action would be then?

[phiferran]

According to the TN Legislature web site, the last action on the bill was the H. Speaker signed it and it has not been transmitted to Halem yet.  The 10 day period doesn't begin until it is transmitted to him.  http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1774

 

If Haslem vetos the bill while the legislature is adjourned, it is my understanding the legislature would have to come back for a special session to override.  If they do not come back in session to override, the bill would be dead. 

 

I did send an email to the bill sponsor, Sen. Mike Bell and he replied that he does not believe Haslem will veto the bill.  (Wouldn't hold my breath, but he does think Haslem will sign it or just let it become law without his signature on it.)  I am not in Mike Bell's district, but he did take the time to respond to my email. 

[wk05]

According to the TN Legislature web site, the last action on the bill was the H. Speaker signed it and it has not been transmitted to Halem yet.  The 10 day period doesn't begin until it is transmitted to him.  http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1774

 

If Haslem vetos the bill while the legislature is adjourned, it is my understanding the legislature would have to come back for a special session to override.  If they do not come back in session to override, the bill would be dead. 

 

I did send an email to the bill sponsor, Sen. Mike Bell and he replied that he does not believe Haslem will veto the bill.  (Wouldn't hold my breath, but he does think Haslem will sign it or just let it become law without his signature on it.)  I am not in Mike Bell's district, but he did take the time to respond to my email. 

 

Right on!  That is what I heard from my Senator as well.  I don't think Haslam would outright veto a pro-2A bill of this sort considering election times are nearing.  Not to mention he signed the original "guns in trunks bill" under a LOT more heat from big business than this has received (thankfully).  

[Oh Shoot]

Right on!  That is what I heard from my Senator as well.  I don't think Haslam would outright veto a pro-2A bill of this sort considering election times are nearing.  Not to mention he signed the original "guns in trunks bill" under a LOT more heat from big business than this has received (thankfully).  

 

Yeah, but this is allowing an actual, you know, firearm freedom for most everyone, so ya never know, coming from a member of MAIG, oops, I mean, lifetime NRAer.

 

- OS

[Worriedman]

Right on!  That is what I heard from my Senator as well.  I don't think Haslam would outright veto a pro-2A bill of this sort considering election times are nearing.  Not to mention he signed the original "guns in trunks bill" under a LOT more heat from big business than this has received (thankfully).  

The 'guns in trunks" bill you reference was purchased by "big business" from the legislature, as it still allows the permit holder to be fired if there is a written policy stating such by an employer, so the employer can still ban the practice of keeping a handgun in a private vehicle..

Edited April 20, 2014 by Worriedman

[RobertNashville]

Not sure what happens if he vetoes it after Session adjourns, though. Aren't they about done? I guess they have to wait till next session to override or not, or do they have to start over?

 

There's no "pocket veto" in TN though.

 

- OS

The legislature can come back into session specifically to override the veto if I recall correctly...also if I recall correctly that's exactly what happened with the first (or maybe it was the second or both) "guns in bars" bill(s).

That said, I rather doubt that the legislature we have now (at least the leadership) cares enough to come back into session.

[JayC]

The leadership is so far up inside the governor I doubt they would even allow a vote to override his veto if they were in session.

 

The legislature can come back into session specifically to override the veto if I recall correctly...also if I recall correctly that's exactly what happened with the first (or maybe it was the second or both) "guns in bars" bill(s).

That said, I rather doubt that the legislature we have now (at least the leadership) cares enough to come back into session.

[300winmag]

I think this is a good bill because you can keep a loaded firearm in your vehicle in most of the states surrounding TN without any license or permit.  Alabama is about the only state that requires a license to keep a loaded handgun in a vehicle that borders TN.  As far as I understand, you can still have a loaded long gun in a vehicle there without a license.

 

I look at my vehicle just like my home or business.  Why should I need a license to keep a loaded gun in my car when I don't need one for my home or business? 

 

The bill does not help me much except I will now be able to have a chambered long gun in my car if I choose to.  It will help a lot of people who do not care to buy a permit but do want to keep a gun in the car for protection.  I do think it is better to keep a gun on you than leaving it in a car, but that is for each person to decide.  If we can fix a few points of TN weapons law for folks with permits, then people can carry their handgun at a school or park legally.

[TrickyNicky]

One other thing to point out, for some people this will make the permit much less than attractive. For instance, if one can carry legally on their property when they leave in the morning, can carry legally at work, and now on their commute, you suddenly only need it to go out of state or into a business that isn't yours.

For some people that may be good enough.

Plus think about it, if a company like Walmart(for example) were to decide that maybe a permit isn't so important to them either then you would be able to go from home, work, Walmart, back home. Then McDonalds might sense the movement and you can go eat a Big Mac as well, and so on down the line.

Its a pipe dream, I know. It's still a nice one though.

[TMF]

One other thing to point out, for some people this will make the permit much less than attractive. For instance, if one can carry legally on their property when they leave in the morning, can carry legally at work, and now on their commute, you suddenly only need it to go out of state or into a business that isn't yours.
 

 

That's on the individual though.  If they don't want a permit then that is their business.  I think we can look at other states which have permitless open carry and vehicle carry as examples of systems that work just fine.  People still get permits who wish to travel out of state.  Honestly, while I support Constitutional carry, I have no problem with keeping a permit system for the purpose of carrying in other states, and I support those other states to have their own laws governing carry.  I don't live there so it isn't my business to say otherwise.

[JAB]

Sad? No, sensible.

 

What is the point of carrying a weapon in the car with you when you are just going to leave it there when you get out of the car? You know the odds of being carjacked? Traffic accident in which someone pulls a gun? Again HUGE odds against that. Or are you going to play superman and stop a mugging that you see? Oh wait, you can't leave the car with the gun. Or hows about when you are standing in line at the 7-11 and the guy that just walked in puts a gun to your head. Is that gun you left in the car going to help you then? Nope, didn't think so.

 

Have you ever lived in a bad neighborhood where you didn't have an attached garage and had a work schedule that meant you got home after dark?  I have.  In fact, before I moved in there my grandmother had her purse stolen in broad daylight in the back yard - the same back yard I had to walk across when I got home from work.  Before I had my HCP, with a crack house on the corner and drive-by shootings across the street (which, by the way, it took at least twenty minutes for LEO to respond to those shootings) it sure would have been nice to have been legally able to have my firearm in my car.  Not to prevent a carjacking 'on the street', necessarily  but to have for protection in case some low life decided I looked like a good target after arriving home one night (my great uncle and great aunt had their car stolen from that same back yard while they were eating Thanksgiving dinner with my grandmother - the cops found it stripped a few blocks away.)  But, hey, if someone lives in a bad neighborhood and can't get an HCP either because they may not have $200 plus to spare or because they aren't yet 21, screw 'em.  They deserve to get stabbed, robbed, beaten or shot, right?

 

Have you ever gone fishing in a remote location?  I have.  There is a little public ramp/fishing area in Blaine, back off the beaten path.  I was there one evening fishing, minding my own business, when a car with a couple of guys in it pulled in and parked at the other end of the gravel lot with their car facing me.  No one got out and I didn't see any fishing poles, etc. sticking out of the windows or anything so I got a bad feeling.  Tossed my fishing gear in the back of my truck and decided to leave.  As I was crossing the parking lot, the car started and they attempted to block me from the little driveway that was the entrance and exit.  Luckily, I learned to drive on gravel roads so I was able to just barely outmaneuver them (I was willing to ram them if necessary but that was no guarantee I would get out.)  I have no idea why they pulled that stunt but, as that was also before I got my HCP, it sure would have been nice to have been able to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle.  But, hey, incidences where you might need a gun just in your vehicle never happen, right?  Wrong.

 

Where I now live is very rural.  Possibly remote, even, by some standards.  There has been at least one body dumped under a bridge on a secondary road that I cross every day on the way to and from work.  There are pull offs at both ends of that bridge where people pull off to fish and there are sometimes some pretty sketchy-looking characters there.  Crime in the area is generally pretty low but it only takes getting killed once to pretty well ruin your day.  With the constant rise in meth related crimes even rural areas where crime has traditionally been pretty low - maybe even especially rural areas - are not necessarily safe.  To me, it would make perfect sense for a person to want to have a loaded firearm with them in their vehicle on such a commute even if they did not have an HCP and didn't want to carry everywhere.  But, again, that doesn't fit with your world view so it must be stupid.

 

Here is another aspect that no one is considering.  Have you ever needed to go in some place where firearms are not allowed but had a non-HCP holding adult with you who decided to stay in the vehicle?  Under the old law, that person could technically be in violation of the law if you left your loaded firearm in the vehicle with them.  If I understand the way the car carry bill is written, under the new 'car carry' law (if Haslam signs it) they would have nothing to worry about.

 

Yes, I prefer having my HCP and I prefer not having to leave a loaded firearm in my vehicle.  That was one of the reasons many of us really wanted the law changed so we could keep our firearm on us when eating in a restaurant where alcohol is served.  Still, I believe that having the option to keep a loaded firearm in the vehicle is preferable to not having any option for access to a loaded firearm outside of one's home, at all.

Edited April 21, 2014 by JAB

[JAB]

One other thing to point out, for some people this will make the permit much less than attractive. For instance, if one can carry legally on their property when they leave in the morning, can carry legally at work, and now on their commute, you suddenly only need it to go out of state or into a business that isn't yours.

For some people that may be good enough.

 

Quite possbily.  However, there is a flip side to that, too.  Some folks who would never have considered getting an HCP, otherwise, might start carrying in their cars, realize they like the idea of having their firearm with them and decide to take the next step and get an HCP.  In that way, car carry might turn out to be 'gateway carry' for some folks.

[RobertNashville]

The leadership is so far up inside the governor I doubt they would even allow a vote to override his veto if they were in session.

Can't say I disagree; unfortunately.  :(

[dcloudy777]

Quite possbily.  However, there is a flip side to that, too.  Some folks who would never have considered getting an HCP, otherwise, might start carrying in their cars, realize they like the idea of having their firearm with them and decide to take the next step and get an HCP.  In that way, car carry might turn out to be 'gateway carry' for some folks.

 

That's pretty solid reasoning.  I think we might see a short term dip in HCP applicants, but over the next 5-10 years people who "just want to carry in the car" are going to get used to having a gun around and go ahead and get the permit, and the numbers will increase.

[wk05]

I think that there are three groups of people who will see a big benefit - (1) those that aren't old enough to get an HCP (2) spouses who won't go get an HCP but whose other wants them to but don't want to carry everyday (3) those who for some reason can get, but don't want an HCP and car carry anyways now!  

 

I have one person in mind - corporate attorney I worked with.  Guy is a BIG hunter, and loves rifles, but isn't interested in carrying on his person everyday, but would be interested in starting to car carry.  I hope I can get him to go buy a handgun and begin car carrying this summer!  

[TrickyNicky]

Sorry , with all the threads on new carry laws I misplaced this one.

That's on the individual though.  If they don't want a permit then that is their business.  I think we can look at other states which have permitless open carry and vehicle carry as examples of systems that work just fine.  People still get permits who wish to travel out of state.  Honestly, while I support Constitutional carry, I have no problem with keeping a permit system for the purpose of carrying in other states, and I support those other states to have their own laws governing carry.  I don't live there so it isn't my business to say otherwise.

Quite possbily.  However, there is a flip side to that, too.  Some folks who would never have considered getting an HCP, otherwise, might start carrying in their cars, realize they like the idea of having their firearm with them and decide to take the next step and get an HCP.  In that way, car carry might turn out to be 'gateway carry' for some folks.

I never said that detraction from the permit process was a bad thing, not did I say anything about getting rid of permits. My sentiments on that pretty much equal those from TMF.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that more carry options are a good thing anyway you slice it. I wish the open carry bill had gone through, wouldn't have had a huge impact on the way I live life, I can't strap on a pistol and go about my day at work for example regardless of law there is company policy, but that's not the case for everyone. For those who CAN, and want to, they should be able.

I do particularly like the gun in cars bill because it is a big step IMO to removing the *necessity* of a permit to those who want to carry. Not to mention anyone who wants to carry a rifle with a round chambered.

While I wouldn't really expect Walmart or mcdonalds to publicly welcome non permit holder to carry , it's still a huge step for people like me who go primarily to work and home.

[TrickyNicky]

I think that there are three groups of people who will see a big benefit - (1) those that aren't old enough to get an HCP (2) spouses who won't go get an HCP but whose other wants them to but don't want to carry everyday (3) those who for some reason can get, but don't want an HCP and car carry anyways now!  
 
I have one person in mind - corporate attorney I worked with.  Guy is a BIG hunter, and loves rifles, but isn't interested in carrying on his person everyday, but would be interested in starting to car carry.  I hope I can get him to go buy a handgun and begin car carrying this summer!

You forgot group (4). Those who can get it and want it but somehow haven't yet and don't car carry because its illegal and they don't want to have their gun confiscated and blow their shot at maybe one of these days :rolleyes: getting said permit.


Guess what group I'm in. ;)

[Oh Shoot]

You forgot group (4). Those who can get it and want it but somehow haven't yet and don't car carry because its illegal and they don't want to have their gun confiscated and blow their shot at maybe one of these days :rolleyes: getting said permit.


Guess what group I'm in. ;)

 

A conviction for illegal carry/possession would not be a disqualifying conviction for getting an HCP, btw. 'Course, as you mention, you'd have to buy another gun to carry. :)

 

- OS

[TrickyNicky]

A conviction for illegal carry/possession would not be a disqualifying conviction for getting an HCP, btw. 'Course, as you mention, you'd have to buy another gun to carry. :)
 
- OS

Well the later is bad enough. Of course, good to know either way, hopefully it won't matter much longer.

[TMF]

[quote name="TrickyNicky" post="1141796" timestamp="1398224734"]Well the later is bad enough. Of course, good to know either way, hopefully it won't matter much longer.[/quote] Hopefully. In my home state is was a crime for me to transport my pistol in my car, but I was too young for a permit. Several years ago they changed the law to make it legal. It has helped me to reconcile my past criminal ways. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk