Steel Guide Rods... Have you ever broken a plastic one???

[wileecoyote]

[quote name="Oh Shoot" post="1124845" timestamp="1394858025"]Oh yeah, AR-15 has partially plastic "guide rod" (buffer, which does mostly same thing) - OS[/quote] That's not true. The vast majority of AR15 buffers use a rubber or nylon bushing at the end of the buffer which does not contact or guide the spring, it only absorbs recoil when the buffer makes it to the end of the tube.

[wileecoyote]

I have worked on, cleaned, shot, and inspected literally thousands of guns over the years. I have seen at least 6 Glock guns with defective or malformed plastic guide rods. The defects varied in severity but typically did cause functioning problems and made the guns less reliable. I have also seen quite a few guns which use plastic parts in many areas. Whether this is practical or reliable depends on many factors including the type of polymer used, location and function of the part, type of cartridge fired, and volume of cleaning and firing. But in general I have found it to be an unacceptable risk for a carry gun, at least for all the high-function high-stress parts, so all of my defensive arms tend to be all metal with only a few high quality polymer exceptions and even those guns must have metal parts in the right places. For my casual shooting Glocks which get moderate to minimal use I tend to leave the cheap factory plastic guide rods in place, not because I like them but because I dislike spending $30+ to replace them, and because a failure is unlikely to cause anything other than mild annoyance. For any Glocks which I shoot a lot or carry for defense, I always upgrade to a stainless steel guide rod. One other thing to keep in mind: most polymer parts can be weakened or ruined by various cleaning solvents and even some lubricants. I suspect this is why some Glock rods fail... I have seen more than a few well-meaning but uneducated owners using all sorts of chemicals to clean or lube the plastic guide rods, which may not damage them immediately but can weaken them gradually over time, thus my second-hand purchases are always closely inspected and often upgraded.

[Oh Shoot]

That's not true. The vast majority of AR15 buffers use a rubber or nylon bushing at the end of the buffer ...

 

Rubber, nylon, polymer, plastic -- whatever --- all are "not metal".

 

- OS

[wileecoyote]

[quote name="Oh Shoot" post="1125003" timestamp="1394906579"]Rubber, nylon, polymer, plastic -- whatever --- all are "not metal". - OS[/quote] I agree all are not metal. However there is a huge difference between the various non-metal materials, and a big difference between the function of a plastic Glock guide rod and the nylon or rubber end of an AR15 buffer, which is why I replied to your post. Edited March 15, 2014 by wileecoyote

[eRay]

Last year when I attended the Glock Armorer class at the factory in Smyrna, My instructor had just started teaching classes after working 5 years in Glock's warranty department. He said one of the biggest reasons for Glocks being returned for warranty service was people installing metal guide rods. He said the Glock frame is designed to flex when firing and things tend to work better if the guide rod flexes with the gun. I have no dog in this fight and if you like a metal guide rod go for it, but I will stick with what Glock thinks works best.

[gregintenn]

Last year when I attended the Glock Armorer class at the factory in Smyrna, My instructor had just started teaching classes after working 5 years in Glock's warranty department. He said one of the biggest reasons for Glocks being returned for warranty service was people installing metal guide rods. He said the Glock frame is designed to flex when firing and things tend to work better if the guide rod flexes with the gun. I have no dog in this fight and if you like a metal guide rod go for it, but I will stick with what Glock thinks works best.

...and I'll stick with guns that don't come with plastic parts.

[eRay]

...and I'll stick with guns that don't come with plastic parts.

I have 12 1911's and only 6 Glocks, so it would be safe to say that I like metal guns better. But if my life were on the line and my gun absolutely had to work, I would pick up a Glock.

[Spiffy]

I put one in my glock 35 simply for the extra weight. Had to tame the nasty muzzle jump on that 40 minor load I use for IDPA.

[TN-popo]

I use a Wolff steel rod in my G19...not because of my aversion to the factory plastic rod, but because I prefer a 15lb recoil spring instead of the factory weight 18lb spring.

I've always felt that 9mm Glocks were "oversprung." 

[TGO David]

I use a Wolff steel rod in my G19...not because of my aversion to the factory plastic rod, but because I prefer a 15lb recoil spring instead of the factory weight 18lb spring.

I've always felt that 9mm Glocks were "oversprung." 

 

^^^ Still running this setup in my G19.  The few people I've let shoot it couldn't believe how much it improved the split between shots.

[Erik88]

^^^ Still running this setup in my G19.  The few people I've let shoot it couldn't believe how much it improved the split between shots.

 

It's less felt recoil with that setup?

[teecro]

Last year when I attended the Glock Armorer class at the factory in Smyrna, My instructor had just started teaching classes after working 5 years in Glock's warranty department. He said one of the biggest reasons for Glocks being returned for warranty service was people installing metal guide rods. He said the Glock frame is designed to flex when firing and things tend to work better if the guide rod flexes with the gun. I have no dog in this fight and if you like a metal guide rod go for it, but I will stick with what Glock thinks works best.

 

I would have to call a little bit of BS on what the "Instructor" said as the slide is made of metal right? Does the plastic frame have metal rails for the slide to ride on? It would seem that if either of these parts were to flex the gun could not be made to slide in a predicable manner.

[frankmako]

never broke one.  i guest you can.  

[TN-popo]

It's less felt recoil with that setup?

 

The best I can describe it is faster recoil, allowing you to get back on target faster, and it feels like you're fighting the gun less during recoil.

 

When I used to teach classes, I'd have a stock G19 and a G19 with a 15lb recoil spring side x side, loaded with the same ammo.

The vast majority of people noticed a positive difference when using the 15lb spring.  Also, I believe it offers increased reliability when firing from somewhat comprimised shooting positions.

 

Is it earthshattering?  No, but worth it to me.

And this is coming from an Armorer who believes Glocks are best left stock as much as possible.

Regards

Edited December 25, 2014 by TN-popo

[graycrait]

The only plastic Glock guide rods that I have seen "come apart" were the ones I knocked the end off of so I could try out different recoil springs.  I would suspect that they would break at some time.  It would be educational to see the truth about how some guns and their parts hold up while being used by professional shooters who shoot a lot, whether commercial or government.    

[tnhawk]

If I ever have a problem with the plastic guide rod in my Beretta pistols I'll replace it with steel.  The plastic has worked well for several years.

[TMF]

The only plastic Glock guide rods that I have seen "come apart" were the ones I knocked the end off of so I could try out different recoil springs.  I would suspect that they would break at some time.  It would be educational to see the truth about how some guns and their parts hold up while being used by professional shooters who shoot a lot, whether commercial or government.    

 

I think part of it too would be how the weapon is stored or abused.  The G19 I had which had a guide road break apart had not been taken care of.  I assume it was exposed to the elements quite a bit, such as extreme temps (high/low) and a lot of moisture.  The plastic was so brittle when it came apart it made me question the materials used to make it.  However, I haven't seen that in my personal G19 which has had a fair amount of rounds put through it.

[TXGunner]

I know this is an old thread, but in case anyone is still following, the plastic guide rod in my Walther PPS snapped today about 40 rounds in to my range session.  When I inspected it, it was badly bowed and literally split in half.  I had fewer than 1k rounds through this gun.  I was using this as my primary carry weapon, so I am glad this happened on the range and not when/if ever needed.  Needless to say, I am replacing it with a steel one and will replace all other plastic guide rods in the future. 

[Cookies]

I replaced the steel guide rod in my 96 brig with the plastic many years ago. The steel rod was showing wear, so I called beretta up for a rod and spring. They sent me the new style plastic, and I was slightly concerned. Beretta rep said it was updated version, if I didn't like it he would ship me a new steel rod. 

I've never went back. The plastic is smoother, faster cycling, doesn't seem to have any wear on it or the metal parts of the gun. It's got almost 20k rounds on it, looks like it's good for at least that many more. I can't tell any difference in muzzle flip or weight, but on an all metal pistol, the 1/2 oz diff is rather minute. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Cookies

[tnhawk]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2014 at 8:38 AM, tnhawk said:

If I ever have a problem with the plastic guide rod in my Beretta pistols I'll replace it with steel.  The plastic has worked well for several years.

I replaced the plastic guide rod with a steel fluted guide rod from Wilson Combat in my M9.  The pistol has functioned well with either one.

[A.J. Holst]

My 75B is an 06 model with thousands of rounds fired.

Replaced the recoil spring at some point, used the original plastic guide rod.

Sent to CGW, returned with new, but plastic guide rod.

If non metal is inferior, why weren't all these firearms designed using metal?

Save a few bucks doesn't make sense since so many are duty rated and approved Mil/LEO firearms.

It is plastic; inspect periodically for damage or wear.

If metal is superior, KAHR shouldn't have to recommend replacing the entire metal assembly after only 2500 - 3000 rounds.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Gotthegoods

[Will Carry]

My CZ-75 is all metal accept for the guide rod, which is plastic. I thought that was kind of cheesy for CZ to go cheap on the guide rod for and otherwise well made pistol. I was going to order an aftermarket guide rod until I read that the plastic guide rod was installed on purpose. It has something to do with preventing wear or something another. I has never given me any problems but every time I strip it for cleaning it bothers me.

My CZ-75 SP-01 is my range gun. It's a honey! I bought a holster for it from Israel that has a spare mag pouch on it. It's like wearing an anvil on my side. It pulls my pants down so much I don't use it. It's in a bag with all the other holsters I have bought and don't use. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Will Carry