First handgun?

[that_guy]

Ok guys i have run into a brick wall here. There are two handguns pf which I really want to purchase, but as of right now I can only choose one. Oh, and I have to make my decision tomorrow, otherwise i will lose out on both of them, and have to settle for something else. not exactly sure what exactly that would be. The Kimber Custom II i will purchase used for $750 and the Beretta 92FS I will purchase new for $627 and some change. I am looking for a good general purpose handgun, probably not going to carry it though. Have had some experience with both, but not exactly an expert in either. The reason I am looking at these particular models is because, parts are widely available, accuracy isn't too much of an issue, and neither is reliability (from what i have heard at least). The 1911 has over 100 years of being around, it's probably doing something right. And the Beretta, it's been in use as the Army's standard issue sidearm for more almost 30 years now, it's also probably doing something right.

I thank in advance for everyone of which tries to help.

Edited March 10, 2014 by that_guy

[KKing]

Surely you jest at "inferior quality". Even if you do, saying things like "just to piss people off" won't get you far around here If you want some sort of help, you might want to state what your purpose for this pistol will be. Are you going to carry it? Range gun? What? You've given us zero info to go on. If you truly want to talk about "inferior quality" you should buy a Hipoint...it will most likely run better than the Kimber you have your eye on. Edited March 10, 2014 by KKing

[Jonnin]

they are completely different guns and we have no idea what YOU like.

[that_guy]

Surely you jest at "inferior quality". Even if you do, saying things like "just to piss people off" won't get you far around here If you want some sort of help, you might want to state what your purpose for this pistol will be. Are you going to carry it? Range gun? What? You've given us zero info to go on. If you truly want to talk about "inferior quality" you should buy a Hipoint...it will most likely run better than the Kimber you have your eye on.

I am sorry if i have pissed you off sir, but I believe I have adequately updated my question. And i thank you for your input.

[that_guy]

they are completely different guns and we have no idea what YOU like.

I like good quality and information on what I am buying before I impulse buy something.

[KKing]

[quote name="that_guy" post="1122566" timestamp="1394423388"]I am sorry if i have pissed you off sir, but I believe I have adequately updated my question. And i thank you for your input.[/quote] Trust me, you've not pissed me off, i found it quite amusing. The pistols you listed are still two different animals, though. Beretta is what I would choose based on my less than impressive personal experiences with Kimber, and the fact that the Beretta you buy may very well be made here in TN

[that_guy]

Trust me, you've not pissed me off, i found it quite amusing. The pistols you listed are still two different animals, though. Beretta is what I would choose based on my less than impressive personal experiences with Kimber, and the fact that the Beretta you buy may very well be made here in TN

What kind of bad experiences have you had with Kimber. Just wondering, will you share your experience(s) with them please?

Edited March 10, 2014 by that_guy

[EMTRN]

I have owned a Kimber for several years. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and it is the most accurate pistol I own. I don't carry it much, but I have shot matches with it and done well.

[TnShooter83]

I've personally shot both. I don't like them for reasons none of which will be of a concern to you. It is purely a personal dislike.

But if I had to pick one it would be the Kimber. The Kimber shoots better for me.

 

For my "other" pick. It would be any Glock in 9mm.

If you want the option for a manual safety I'd pick an M&P9 or an M&P40.

The reason I recommend them is, that is what I have the most time with in the field or range.

Edited March 10, 2014 by TnShooter83

[KKing]

[quote name="that_guy" post="1122572" timestamp="1394424204"]What kind of bad experiences have you had with KImber. Just wondering, will you share your experience(s) with them please?[/quote] Sure, I don't like companies that blame extraction problems on a"break in period", I've owned pistols that required a break in period that never malfunctioned during that time. I sent the gun in and still had trouble afterward. There are problems that can be attributed to a break in period, extracting shouldn't be one. I won't go on into the whole ordeal with them simply because it was 2011 and from what I understand more recent customer service experiences have been overall better. I just know I have pistols I paid 1/3 the price of what I gave for the Kimber that I've been much happier with. Heck, I have a $105 Hipoint that has ran better. I may have had the dud, every company has them from time to time. I just know when I spend Kimber money I expect much more than what I got.

[that_guy]

Sure, I don't like companies that blame extraction problems on a"break in period", I've owned pistols that required a break in period that never malfunctioned during that time. I sent the gun in and still had trouble afterward. There are problems that can be attributed to a break in period, extracting shouldn't be one. I won't go on into the whole ordeal with them simply because it was 2011 and from what I understand more recent customer service experiences have been overall better. I just know I have pistols I paid 1/3 the price of what I gave for the Kimber that I've been much happier with. Heck, I have a $105 Hipoint that has ran better. I may have had the dud, every company has them from time to time. I just know when I spend Kimber money I expect much more than what I got.

I actually got a chance to play with a hi-point earlier today. It was kinda finicky the first mag or so, but after that it ran beautifully. 

[Patton]

The general opinion is that there are better 1911s out there for the money than a Kimber. Any handgun can be a lemon, no matter what brand. All of this assuming you are a 1911 fan, I am not. I have shot them but just think they are slightly outdated technology. As for the Beretta the price seems about right for a new one but some older used ones have more desirable parts. Not to mention they are often on the market for several hundred less. The military uses the Beretta because a long time ago they got convinced that it was the best value at the time. They liked the Sig 226 a slight bit better but saved money with the Beretta. I would like to own a Beretta after carrying one in Afghanistan and as a MP for years. The thing with the Beretta is everybody shoots them ok, noone seems to shoot them great though.

If I were buying my first handgun, not specifically for carry, I would look at a polymer framed compact or full sized Glock, M&P, or similar in 9. If I just found the right deal on a 40 I would buy it since ammo is more plentiful right now anyway. Edited March 10, 2014 by Patton

[Patton]

I see that you are military, you will not beat the blue label pricing on Glocks 9/40/357 are $450 New OTD at your nearest Glock LE dealer. All of this assuming Glocks appeal to you. It is too easy to find rental Glocks to try out before you buy one.

[that_guy]

I see that you are military, you will not beat the blue label pricing on Glocks 9/40/357 are $450 New OTD at your nearest Glock LE dealer. All of this assuming Glocks appeal to you. It is too easy to find rental Glocks to try out before you buy one.

I will make sure to try that. The Beretta is technically $618 and some change plus tax and background check, but, being military, I get 10% off at my local dealer.

[KKing]

To me, and I don't mean this offensively to anyone that likes fine, pretty weapons....I see it like this. A Kimber is something my wife would love. They're pretty, and fancy. She doesn't care that it may not be the best gun in the category for the money, she knows it looks great and it's popular, so she'll like it. To me, guns are utility items. Even my "nice" guns wouldn't be pretty by most standards. If a gun doesn't work twice as good as what it looks, I'm not interested. I guess that may be why I'm primarily a Glock guy, they work 10x better than they look lol

[MrBrian]

You also must decide if you want a 9mm that holds 15+1, or a 45 ACP that only holds 7+1....   Like everyone else has stated, these are two totally different animals...    You have to ask yourself what you're wanting out of the firearm.  You say you're probably not going to carry it, so are you just wanting a range toy, or a home protection/ night stand gun?  If you ever decide to carry it, how many rounds do you think you'll need?  You have to look at the cost difference of ammo.  Especially if you're wanting to do any kind of competition.  The cost of magazines for both of these guns are also on the upper end.   Don't get too caught up on company names, every brand is gonna have people that think they're the best and only guns in the world, and people that absolutely hate them....   

My very first gun was a Glock 19 Gen4.   Why did I choose it?  I wanted a mid-sized 9mm, that had good reliability, reasonably priced, could hold several rounds without weighing my belt down... I wanted ammo that was easily found, and I felt that I would be using it more for target practice than carrying...   I wanted something that felt good in my hand, that I could control, three dot sights, and a platform that I could upgrade relatively easy.  Having a manual safety wasn't a high priority because the only real safety is between your ears.     

All that being said, you're never going to be able to have other people pick which gun is best for YOU,  it's just not possible....    Make yourself a checklist of everything you're looking for in a gun....   make sure what you pick fits everything on that checklist....   and if it absolutely comes down to not being able to choose between two guns... flip a coin

[sybo]

I vote Glock 19...................................

[Jonnin]

I like good quality and information on what I am buying before I impulse buy something.

 

well the 1911 is a single action cocked and locked, low capacity,  large framed handgun.  For me the selling points are the trigger (short, light) and the frame (comfortable to hold for me, tames recoil, generally feels good).  The downsides to a 1911 are the barrel bushing and grip safety -- the bushing is annoying because of taking it out to clean it (extra tool, and very hard to get in and out if it is fitted, and if not fitted, accuracy suffers) and the grip safety is just annoying period.  Kimber specifically gets more $$ for its outstanding external appearance and brand name recognition.  The few I have shot were accurate and reliable, and it is a fine lower-mid grade 1911.  

 

The 92 is a medium-large frame, high capacity, DA/SA gun.  The grip is wide and less comfortable but the more than double capacity is an important feature if it is for defense.   The trigger is 'military'  which is a nice way to say that the DA is hard to pull for the first shot and the follow up shots the trigger is wiggly.  It is very accurate and if not too fat for your hands, also quite comfortable to shoot.  Recoil is low.  Reliable and well made guns -- there are some very pretty examples of it but most are fairly utilitarian.

 

For me it comes down to whether its a home defense weapon or a range target pistol.  1911 is a better target pistol due to the trigger.  The 92 has the edge in capacity.  Both are too big to carry (my opinion only).    Both are excellent, but if it were for my nightstand the beretta wins.  Also if the kimber you are looking at is 45, ammo price is a factor if you shoot a lot: 45 is pricy.

 

edit: let me add that as a first handgun, maybe you should try to rent/borrow/shoot one of each first?  These are not cheap guns -- you want to have shot something similar before you buy at random.   It is unclear where you live but if near me I have a 92 (very old model, fatter grips and goofy sights)  and a 1911 (a colt and a para) ...

Edited March 10, 2014 by Jonnin

[glowdotGlock]

I didn't take the time to read all of the above posts so it may have been mentioned above. I know these are the two you are looking at but if parts availabilty is one of your concerns I would go with a Glock. If you are a newbie in the pistol world it is much more user serviceable. That way you would only be out $500-550 and that would leave the rest of your budget for night sights and ammo. JMO Edited March 10, 2014 by glowdotGlock

[hipower]

You asked for opinions, so here goes...Jonnin has made the best case for this so far.

Pick you purpose. Pick one that is comfortable to carry and use within that stated purpose. Try rental guns to find out how each fit you. Then make your own decision based on those criteria.

Now for my opinion...get a Glock for your first gun as a semiauto. (Personally, I believe every person's first should be a good 4" revolver. Once you have achieved a degree of comfort and ability with it, go to a semi. But that's just my opinion. That's how my father, who was a competitive shooter for 20 years or so taught me. And it's worked for me.)

Glock 19. Good caliber, weight is acceptable for easy carry and concealment, makes a great house gun, a good range gun as well. Parts are readily available, easily cleaned, ammo is reasonably available and cost effective for sport and home defense.

That's my take on it.

[tercel89]

I didn't take the time to read all of the above posts so it may have been mentioned above. I know these are the two you are looking at but if parts availabilty is one of your concerns I would go with a Glock. If you are a newbie in the pistol world it is much more user serviceable. That way you would only be out $500-550 and that would leave the rest of your budget for night sights and ammo. JMO

This is my answer too !!!! Kimbers have had too many problems from all my friends making the mistake of buying them and finding it out later , and Beretta runs good but have way too many parts in my opinion. I think glowdotGlock hit the nail on the head for his answer . But if you just REALLY want a 1911 then get a SPringfield Armory Mil-Spec or a GI model . I have the Mil-Spec and it runs GREAT ! 

Edited March 10, 2014 by tercel89

[tercel89]

A Glock can be a carry gun , a house gun, a carry gun  and combat gun . It has only 30 something parts and the parts can be found really easy . Taking it all apart down to the last spring and pin is very easy .  I have carried one at work on my job for 17 yrs and it has never had a malfunction. This is why I say Glock. 

[quickbiscuit]

Sure, I don't like companies that blame extraction problems on a"break in period", I've owned pistols that required a break in period that never malfunctioned during that time. I sent the gun in and still had trouble afterward. There are problems that can be attributed to a break in period, extracting shouldn't be one. I won't go on into the whole ordeal with them simply because it was 2011 and from what I understand more recent customer service experiences have been overall better. I just know I have pistols I paid 1/3 the price of what I gave for the Kimber that I've been much happier with. Heck, I have a $105 Hipoint that has ran better. I may have had the dud, every company has them from time to time. I just know when I spend Kimber money I expect much more than what I got.

Very good observations above. Extractor issues cannot be fixed with a break in. Kimber sells guns based on appearance, usually to first time 1911 buyers. The problem is they put more time into creating guns that look good instead of using quality parts and making sure these parts are fit well and the gun functions 100%. No production line gun should need a break-in, and I hesitate using the term "break-in" on any 1911. Personally I have never seen an issue cured after putting 500 rounds down the pipe. I usually look at the sometimes recommended "500 round break-in" as an overall test in reliability. If you have no issues through 500 rounds of mixed ammo with a new 1911, it's built properly.

I have two Kimbers, one produced in 2007 that's a really good pistol and another produced in 2009 that is pure crap. I've replaced numerous parts on the 2009 and relieved several different areas on the pistol. It functions fine now, but the accuracy isn't there. Kimber makes so many different designs they almost always have a design that will appeal to anyone. The problem with their more expensive guns is you get no better fit, parts, or quality control with a Gold Match than you do a Custom II. They are all fitted the same. You pay for the styling upgrades. Which I guess can be a good thing for someone looking at a cheaper offering from Kimber.

The downsides to a 1911 are the barrel bushing and grip safety -- the bushing is annoying because of taking it out to clean it (extra tool, and very hard to get in and out if it is fitted, and if not fitted, accuracy suffers) and the grip safety is just annoying period.

Please explain why you need a tool to remove a 1911 barrel bushing. The only time a bushing wrench is nice is if you have a full length guide rod. If you find that a tightly fitted bushing is hard to get out you are not field stripping the gun properly. High end guns need a different procedure. Pull the slide back to the takedown notch and remove the stop with everything still intact in the slide, recoil spring parts and all. Catch the recoil spring and remove it. Now you can push the barrel forward and remove the barrel and bushing as a unit (now with the bushing positioned away from the muzzle). A tightly fitted bushing shouldn't be removed with the barrel in full battery position. Twisting and grinding on the parts that need the most precise fit is a good way to ruin a match bushing/barrel job.

Also, what is annoying about a grip safety? It's just a good safety feature that naturally works when you grip the gun. Edited March 10, 2014 by quickbiscuit

[that_guy]

ummm...bad experiences with Kimber don't make me feel very comfortable..... Anyone ever had bad experiences with Beretta?

[that_guy]

And good experiences please. That might relieve some of my discomfort. (With both, heard some horror stories about Beretta, but those might have just been bad apples)