New from La Vergne, TN

[E4 No More]

Hello all! My name is Steve, and I was referred to this site by SVTOA members.

I am a 48 year old former Marine and "Police Sniper" for a suburb of Kansas City, MO, called Claycomo. I left the department in 1993 after 5.5 years of service, and up until almost a year ago I have been unarmed. Under a year ago I purchased a S&W M&P .45 for home defense, (I don't care for shotguns for home defense). For my birthday last August I bought a M&P 9mm compact for concealed carry and attended the concealed carry class in Murfreesboro. I guess I still have a few months to wait before I get my permit out of Tennessee.

I now wear bifocals and find sighting effectively/quickly to be difficult. I was a better instinct shooter anyways when it came to pistols, but I've been entertaining the idea of getting a LASER/light combo for the .45 and a Crimson Trace grip for the 9mm for concealed carry. I'm not worried about giving away my position because I wouldn't activate the LASER until I've already made the judgement to pull the trigger, and the light would need to be bright enough to dazzle the intruder.

Questions:

1. Are the Crimson Trace LASER grips worth $240?

2. Is there something better for concealed carry?

3. What LASER/light combo is recommended for the .45?

[musicman]

Welcome to the forum!! Thanks for your service in both the military and police roles you filled.

I'm not an expert on any of the things you have questions about, but I do think you will get more and better answers if you post those questions in the "handgun" section for questions about guns choices, and the "accessories" section for wuestion about the laser, etc.

Again, welcome!

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Welcome

[Angus]

Heya Steve...welcome aboard....and a hearty thanks from me as well for all your service.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Welcome Steve.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Welcome to the forum!

Just wondering,

Have you been to an optometrist lately? Many times, if you are willing to entertain the idea, folks can be fitted in contact lenses (monovision or multifocal contact lenses) that can be a boone for the presbyopic shooter.

[Guest tnmale46]

welcome

[Guest nj.piney]

welcome

[E4 No More]

Welcome to the forum!

Just wondering,

Have you been to an optometrist lately? Many times, if you are willing to entertain the idea, folks can be fitted in contact lenses (monovision or multifocal contact lenses) that can be a boone for the presbyopic shooter.

Within 6 months. Contacts were tried and failed. The multi-focals slid around my eye too much, and the monos in a "one eye for reading and the other for distance" configuration drove me nuts.

[Guest Major Pain]

Welcome to the TGO forum.--MP

[Guest Hyaloid]

Within 6 months. Contacts were tried and failed. The multi-focals slid around my eye too much, and the monos in a "one eye for reading and the other for distance" configuration drove me nuts.

Gotcha. Just out of curiosity, did you only try one multifocal? There are several designs, and they all work a bit differently.

Not trying to get too personal here, just trying to help.

Also, there is a form called modified monovision, where one eye is distance, and the other eye has a multifocal... sometimes this is a happy medium.

[Oh Shoot]

First, a hearty welcome to TGO.

I'm pretty farsighted (can see far, but not close), a pretty normal outcome of normal vision as one ages. So far, I haven't messed with "real" glasses, just always have reading glasses around neck. They are useful to about 4' out, and really necessary from about 2' and in. I use them so often, from everything from computer and reading to looking at the dash in my car, that they are actually on the tip of my nose about 75% of the time. I've just learned to look over them or down through them. Sort of a poor man's bifocals.

My point is, and you mention above that you're a decent "instinct" shooter, which I take to mean as shooting by "pointing" rather than "aiming", I wonder how important this really is? I've been working a lot more on "point" shooting from 10 yards and in; I'm not a TacticoolDude or anything, and I understand that you seem to have real world experience, perhaps even under fire too, but I don't need training to understand that in a quick reaction scenario, I'm not gonna be lining up them dots for a first (and probably not second or third) shot. IF I have time to actually AIM the weapon, of course I'm way better (even with my less than subpar skills), but then I can look down through the glasses. Actually, even without the glasses I CAN see the dots fuzzily, rendering significantly better shot placement.

BUT, I understand your point, and I suppose a well-sighted laser could be beneficial; and my vision situation may well be so different from yours that my comments aren't applicable. I'm just such a "Murphy was an optimist" thinker that I'd hate to hone my skills to be highly dependent on yet one more fallible part of the whole SD equation.

- OS

Edited September 27, 2008 by OhShoot

[Joseg]

Steve, I'm sorry you live in Lavergne, I just moved out of that AO and moved to the Boro. Welcome...

[E4 No More]

Gotcha. Just out of curiosity, did you only try one multifocal? There are several designs, and they all work a bit differently.

Not trying to get too personal here, just trying to help.

Also, there is a form called modified monovision, where one eye is distance, and the other eye has a multifocal... sometimes this is a happy medium.

I tried two mutli-focals and two mono combinations.

[DWARREN123]

Howdy and Welcome to TGO

[E4 No More]

First, a hearty welcome to TGO.

I'm pretty farsighted (can see far, but not close), a pretty normal outcome of normal vision as one ages. So far, I haven't messed with "real" glasses, just always have reading glasses around neck. They are useful to about 4' out, and really necessary from about 2' and in. I use them so often, from everything from computer and reading to looking at the dash in my car, that they are actually on the tip of my nose about 75% of the time. I've just learned to look over them or down through them. Sort of a poor man's bifocals.

My point is, and you mention above that you're a decent "instinct" shooter, which I take to mean as shooting by "pointing" rather than "aiming", I wonder how important this really is? I've been working a lot more on "point" shooting from 10 yards and in; I'm not a TacticoolDude or anything, and I understand that you seem to have real world experience, perhaps even under fire too, but I don't need training to understand that in a quick reaction scenario, I'm not gonna be lining up them dots for a first (and probably not second or third) shot. IF I have time to actually AIM the weapon, of course I'm way better (even with my less than subpar skills), but then I can look down through the glasses. Actually, even without the glasses I CAN see the dots fuzzily, rendering significantly better shot placement.

BUT, I understand your point, and I suppose a well-sighted laser could be beneficial; and my vision situation may well be so different from yours that my comments aren't applicable. I'm just such a "Murphy was an optimist" thinker that I'd hate to hone my skills to be highly dependent on yet one more fallible part of the whole SD equation.

- OS

I'm near-sighted, so the exact opposite of you. Having long arms from my 6'4" frame it puts the sights right at the point where the dots are fuzzy. This causes me to bob my head up and down trying to find the right place in my bifocals to clear them or just be less accurate. Instinct shooting would be fairly accurate at the distances in my home, but would not be accurate enough in a more public place such as a mall.

Some might find this paranoid, but I take heed of intelligence reports that say malls are one of the most likely targets for terrorists now days, and I think the divisive government that we have now will exacerbate that threat. I don't intend on me or mine being easy victims of either foreign or domestic terrorists. Since the 9mm will be my concealed carry weapon, I want the LASER sight for better accuracy than I'd get with trying the sights.

Even though I was an expert shot with a rifle, I never was really that good with a pistol. I feel it's because my long arms place the pistol further away from my center of gravity which amplifies any movement. I use to tell people they were much safer standing 50 feet away from me with a pistol in my hand than they were standing 500 yards away from me with a iron-sighted rifle in my hands.

[E4 No More]

Steve, I'm sorry you live in Lavergne, I just moved out of that AO and moved to the Boro. Welcome...

I'm beginning to like my neighborhood now. Fortunately, the housing crisis has driven most of the gang members out of the neighborhood.

It was because of the gangs that I got my M&P .45. I owned a nice Mustang GT with custom wheels, and one day while washing it out front of my house somebody drove by and yelled "Deuces!" out of their window at me. Although we had no gang problems where I was a police officer we still went through training and intelligence briefs, and that was enough to concern me to the point that I re-armed.

[~Emily~]

Welcome, Steve. I live in Antioch, but work in La Vergne and like it fine. Some would point out that I come from the frying pan into the fire but I've had no problems.

[Fallguy]

Welcome

[E4 No More]

Welcome, Steve. I live in Antioch, but work in La Vergne and like it fine. Some would point out that I come from the frying pan into the fire but I've had no problems.

Oh, I don't know about that. Considering what's gone on in Antioch lately with intrusions and murder at an ATM I think we're even. LOL!

[Guest superdrew4000]

Glad you love your M&P's so much, I know I love my .45 and really want one of the compact 9mm. Geez, there I go adding another firearm to the "wish list". Welcome to TGO!

[Guest Phantom6]

...............................We're glad you're here!

If you are having a hard time seeing the front sight of your pistol then seeing a laser is going to be worse for you. I too wear bifocals and know of the problems you are having. As an experienced pistolol shooter you know that you need to concentrate only on the front sight when you shoot at defensive distances. Might I suggest a HiViz front sight like this?

Place the red dot at center mass and 'squeeze easy'. They are available in red or green, your choice. This one happens to be for a Kimber but they make 'em for all types of pistols.

It has been my experience over the years that lasers are good training tools especially in point shooting techniques but other than that they are not worth the money.

[E4 No More]

If you are having a hard time seeing the front sight of your pistol then seeing a laser is going to be worse for you. I too wear bifocals and know of the problems you are having. As an experienced pistolol shooter you know that you need to concentrate only on the front sight when you shoot at defensive distances. Might I suggest a HiViz front sight like this?

Place the red dot at center mass and 'squeeze easy'. They are available in red or green, your choice. This one happens to be for a Kimber but they make 'em for all types of pistols.

It has been my experience over the years that lasers are good training tools especially in point shooting techniques but other than that they are not worth the money.

Guys, keep in mind that the experience that I had is 15 years ago. A lot has been forgotten, and more importantly, a lot has changed in that time. Even in the day I as a fair shot with my Glock .40 and Sig .45 before that. Today I'm lucky that I can still hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle!

This sight looks promising. I certainly like the price better than the LASER.

[Almond27]

welcome to TGO and thanks for your service

[PackinMama]

Welcome to TGO Steve!