ELG Black Powder Flintlock Derringer

[ncldwell]

Several years ago I received an heirloom after a relative passed away.  It is an ELG black powder flintlock derringer.  When I received it, it was in a shadowbox frame and I had it hung on my office wall.  Couple weeks ago I bumped the frame and it fell and shattered.  So...It gave me an opportunity to get a closer look at the pistol and it has my curiosity up a bit.  Hammer and trigger function well.

 

Anyone know much about these old pistols?  I've attached some photos below.

 

 

 

 

 

[RED333]

Is it not cap and ball?

Looks like a nipple under the hammer.

Nice little pocket pistol.

[ncldwell]

Is it not cap and ball?

Looks like a nipple under the hammer.

Nice little pocket pistol.

 

It does have a nipple beneath the hammer.  Looks like I have my terminology wrong.  Any idea how old this might be?

[TripleDigitRide]

The oval with "ELG" inside is a Belgium proof mark.

[Lowpower]

It's a purity lil cap-n-ball pistol. Maybe mid 1800's? About a .32 cal?

[ncldwell]

It's a purity lil cap-n-ball pistol. Maybe mid 1800's? About a .32 cal?

 

I've tested the barrel caliber.  It swallows a 9mm and a 45acp is tight.  The ball coming out of this thing was nice size.

[TripleDigitRide]

If I had to guess on its age, I'd say after 1860, but before 1900. A lot of those barrels were 12mm.

[ncldwell]

The oval with "ELG" inside is a Belgium proof mark.

 

Wish I had more family history on this gun.  Farthest I can trace it is my wife's great-grandfather.  They were from a line of Dutch immigrants.

[TripleDigitRide]

 It swallows a 9mm and a 45acp is tight.

That would make sense. A .45 is 11.43mm. If the .45 is tight, it's likely a 12mm.

[ncldwell]

If I had to guess on its age, I'd say after 1860, but before 1900. A lot of those barrels were 12mm.

 

This pistol has been well taken care of through the years.  I can tell from working the action on it that it was well made.  I really don't think after examining it closely that it was fired that much.  I put a ruler to the barrel end and it measures close to 12mm.

[Dolomite_supafly]

DO NOT POLISH IT!

 

Collectors are looking for original looking guns, not ones that have been fluffed and buffed.

 

Any kind of cleaning or polishing can seriously affect value. To give you an idea of how bad it can affect value I will tell you this. I watched a guy walk into a show with a very old and very rare Colt Single Action. In its original finish it was easily worth $3,000-$5,000, maybe even more but because he took a wire wheel to it the day of the show it turned it into a $500 shooter. He said he was trying to get the brown rust coloring off. It didn't appear to have any pitting and the grips were in nice shape other than where the wire wheel hit them. The dealer got a disgusted look on his face when the guy told him he cleaned it up using a wire wheel on a bench grinder.

 

It was pretty sad to see what was done to that gun and the seller didn't want to believe he ruined the gun. He was adamant it was worth more and it was up until a few hours before the show.

[ncldwell]

Given the condition, I'd bet folding money this 100+ year old pistol would function fine today.

[ncldwell]

DO NOT POLISH IT!

 

Collectors are looking for original looking guns, not ones that have been fluffed and buffed.

 

Any kind of cleaning or polishing can seriously affect value. To give you an idea of how bad it can affect value I will tell you this. I watched a guy walk into a show with a very old and very rare Colt Single Action. In its original finish it was easily worth $3,000-$5,000, maybe even more but because he took a wire wheel to it the day of the show it turned it into a $500 shooter. He said he was trying to get the brown rust coloring off. It didn't appear to have any pitting and the grips were in nice shape other than where the wire wheel hit them. The dealer got a disgusted look on his face when the guy told him he cleaned it up using a wire wheel on a bench grinder.

 

It was pretty sad to see what was done to that gun and the seller didn't want to believe he ruined the gun. He was adamant it was worth more and it was up until a few hours before the show.

 

The barrel is solid brass and the hammer / trigger is steel.  Thanks for the counsel, I haven't touched it.  It is in amazing condition and wouldn't think of messing it up with modern cleaners and polishes.  It is truly a family heirloom and I'd never sell this pistol.  Now that I've played with it some I'll put it back in a new shadowbox on the wall and just "admire' it everyday.

[RED333]

A bit of help, Look down the list of proof makes.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

 

This site is a bit tuff

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20site%20belge%20gb.htm

[ncldwell]

A bit of help, Look down the list of proof makes.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

 

This site is a bit tuff

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20site%20belge%20gb.htm

 

Thanks Red, this is excellent info.  Mark dates back to mid to late 1800's.

[RED333]

The 2nd link will give a lot more info, but you have to join, I did a google search to find them.

You are welcome, it is a cool pistol, and it being from the family makes it all the better.

Just might find it to be worth a lot of money.

[ncldwell]

The 2nd link will give a lot more info, but you have to join, I did a google search to find them.

You are welcome, it is a cool pistol, and it being from the family makes it all the better.

Just might find it to be worth a lot of money.

 

Thank you brother.  When it comes to things passed down the value is rarely monetary in nature.  I hope to pass that same sentiment down to my two younguns.  And I hope they feel the same as they mature.  Resale value only makes the desire to hold on to it that much better.

[RED333]

  When it comes to things passed down the value is rarely monetary in nature.  I hope to pass that same sentiment down to my two younguns.  And I hope they feel the same as they mature.  Resale value only makes the desire to hold on to it that much better.

The very way I feel, We have a sword from 1864, Civil War era, been in the family for years.