How to fix the economy...

[NuTcAsE]

The NuTcAsE Plan....

There were 138,893,908 individual tax returns filed in the U.S. in 2007

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/07dbreturnfiled.pdf page 5

The Gov. is proposing a 700 billion dollar bailout.

1. Give every taxpayer 1 million to apply to their debt,, housing first, then all other debt and keep the balance.

2. No Tax Refunds in 2009. This would go back into what we pay out for this.

3. Pass the Fair Tax.

4. The Math:

I don't know the figures on what they would have to borrow and print, but lets say 75% of the 700 biguns' equals 525,000,000,000 that won't be added on to the national deficit. That leaves 175,000,000,000. (175 bill). Subtract the 138,893,908 leaves, 174,861,106,092.

5. The Plan:

1 mil. each to the taxpayers for debt reduction. This will somewhat bail out the Credit Industry. What of them don't survive fine.

This will give taxpaying Americans Housing relief.

The vast majority of taxpaying Americans should be debt free.

This will energize the Retail Sector with more Americans spending the balance, and bolster the state economies and add tax revenue.

Shore up social security and get it out of the gov.'s hands, repair our energy infrastructure, borders, customs, military, with the balance.

Next Year pass the Fair Tax, and REDUCE GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND IT'S SIZE!

Edited September 26, 2008 by NuTcAsE
clarify #2

[Volzfan]

Sounds logical to me but Washington doesn't understand logic so I won't hold my breath.

[Warbird]

Very interesting concept. Do you mind if I post this on a site for folks involved in ideas to clear up this mess? Please post or pm me your real name so I can appropriately source it. THX

[TGO David]

If you give $1mil to each taxpayer, you're going to end up with a national shortage of big screen plasma televisions and other such nonsense and a bunch of people still in debt.

[Guest jwp]

How about repealing the '86 machine gun ban and increase the NFA transfer tax on machine guns to $500?

That would increase the workforce.

Increase the tax base.

A no-brainer.

[Volzfan]

If you give $1mil to each taxpayer, you're going to end up with a national shortage of big screen plasma televisions and other such nonsense and a bunch of people still in debt.

I'll do all I can to make a shortage of Sig"s!!

But I won't have any debt.

Seriously though, If they would require that individuals would have to place at least 50% into something like a trust fund and then could spend no more than 50% of the remainder or 25% of the original amount on a home. People would also be allowed that same amount to bring a mortgage current, or pay off a mortgage, and have the payment drafted from the interest earned from the 500k that is in a savings acct of some sort.

There is a start and I would rather see this type of program set up rather than this huge bailout but I think the whole thing stinks of socialism and we have no business going there.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Volzfan

[Guest GT_Rat]

People will buy $1,000,000 houses they can't afford to maintain. Then go into debt in an effort to stay in the house and maintain it. Then will file bankruptcy, will loose the house and the proceeds from selling it will go to pay off the debt from maintaining it. They'll be right back where they started because they're too stupid to be rich.

[Guest canynracer]

I like it...I tell you right now, if I had 1mil, my FIRST priority would be to become debt free...Then the big screens and sigs, but that is revitalizing the retailers, so it works

[NuTcAsE]

If you give $1mil to each taxpayer, you're going to end up with a national shortage of big screen plasma televisions and other such nonsense and a bunch of people still in debt.

I'll do all I can to make a shortage of Sig"s!!

But I won't have any debt.

Seriously though, If they would require that individuals would have to place at least 50% into something like a trust fund and then could spend no more than 50% of the remainder or 25% of the original amount on a home. People would also be allowed that same amount to bring a mortgage current, or pay off a mortgage, and have the payment drafted from the interest earned from the 500k that is in a savings acct of some sort.

There is a start and I would rather see this type of program set up rather than this huge bailout but I think the whole thing stinks of socialism and we have no business going there.

People will buy $1,000,000 houses they can't afford to maintain. Then go into debt in an effort to stay in the house and maintain it. Then will file bankruptcy, will loose the house and the proceeds from selling it will go to pay off the debt from maintaining it. They'll be right back where they started because they're too stupid to be rich.

I'm mostly just thinkin out loud here. A friend at work and I were talking about this, this morning. He had the idea of giving every body a mil. each. I kinda took it and expanded it from there.

There would have to be stipulations and restrictions. Like you have to pay off your debt, house first then personal, then if you have any business debt you can apply it there. If you still have debt after that you'd have to be in a better position to manage it, and you couldn't aquire anymore for a certain time.

If you buy a house it would have to be restricted to what you could afford to maintain (tax liability, insurance and maintenance) on last years salary plus a percentage since you have no mortgage.

If you have a bad debt to income ratio, there would have to be restrictions on if or how much credit you could get for a time period. You can't legislate fiscal responsibility, but after this it's up to you swim or drown no more bailouts for anybody.

We could also apply the balance to an I.R.A. That would help relieve Social Security in the future. Plus it would be a boon to the markets since everyone would be investing.

You would want people spending a percent of it to get the economy moving again. A shortage on big screen TV's would be good, I'd like to have another 2 or 3, and a whole bunch of gun toys myself.

Edited September 26, 2008 by NuTcAsE

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

My thoughts:

The NuTcAsE Plan....

There were 138,893,908 individual tax returns filed in the U.S. in 2007

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/07dbreturnfiled.pdf page 5

The Gov. is proposing a 700 billion dollar bailout.

1. Give every taxpayer 1 million to apply to their debt,, housing first, then all other debt and keep the balance.

First issue I see here is the difficulty in ensuring that that money really does go towards debts. Either you create some kind of really complicated setup for distributing the money and monitoring its use, or else the majority of it gets turned into 24" rims, gold teef, PS3s, and plasma TVs.

Despite that, I am very much in favor of giving the taxpayers back their own damned money.

2. No Tax Refunds in 2009. This would go back into what we pay out for this.

Problem with this is that it's going to very arbitrarily distribute this burden among the population. The amount of tax refund a person is due is basically unrelated to their income level; the determining factor is really their planning. Lots of folks use tax refunds as a savings plan, while others plan on owing every year.

I don't think this can possibly fly at all, nor do I think it should.

3. Pass the Fair Tax.

100% agree with this.

4. The Math:

I don't know the figures on what they would have to borrow and print, but lets say 75% of the 700 biguns' equals 525,000,000,000 that won't be added on to the national deficit. That leaves 175,000,000,000. (175 bill). Subtract the 138,893,908 leaves, 174,861,106,092.

5. The Plan:

1 mil. each to the taxpayers for debt reduction. This will somewhat bail out the Credit Industry. What of them don't survive fine.

This will give taxpaying Americans Housing relief.

The vast majority of taxpaying Americans should be debt free.

This will energize the Retail Sector with more Americans spending the balance, and bolster the state economies and add tax revenue.

Shore up social security and get it out of the gov.'s hands, repair our energy infrastructure, borders, customs, military, with the balance.

Next Year pass the Fair Tax, and REDUCE GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND IT'S SIZE!

Other nitpicks: 1 million per taxpayer is a LOT of money. $200k would be a more reasonable (ballpark) figure. Anyone who's accumulated more than that and can't afford to pay it even after a $200k reduction is in over their heads and needs to get a butt-raping.

On a more abstract level, I'm not comfortable with the way that this would basically legitimize the folks who have consistently spent beyond their means. I understand that floating these people may be necessary to keep the economy afloat, but we have to be careful about basically telling these folks that we're willing to bail them out even though they've been stupid.

Finally, I don't pretend to have all the answers here; I merely offer my thoughts on things for consideration. I assert no authority or expertise.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Maybe I am missing something here, or I just didnt get enough sleep last night or coffee this morning, but...

138,893,908 people x $1,000,000 = $138,893,908,000,000.

$138,893,908,000,000 - $700,000,000,000 = 138,193,908,000,000.

Where is that extra 138 Trillion dollars going to come from?

[Paletiger13]

Let us import our favorite guns and see how the economy shifts. Maybe we should mention that to the senate.

[NuTcAsE]

My thoughts:

First issue I see here is the difficulty in ensuring that that money really does go towards debts. Either you create some kind of really complicated setup for distributing the money and monitoring its use,

Yes it would, it could be handled through the I.R.S. as their last "official" act. Set up and account, you take your debt to the I.R.S. they "pay it off" for you. It would take time.

or else the majority of it gets turned into 24" rims, gold teef, PS3s, and plasma TVs.

Gold "teef", hahahahah

Despite that, I am very much in favor of giving the taxpayers back their own damned money.

Fair tax!!!!!

Problem with this is that it's going to very arbitrarily distribute this burden among the population. The amount of tax refund a person is due is basically unrelated to their income level; the determining factor is really their planning. Lots of folks use tax refunds as a savings plan, while others plan on owing every year.

I don't think this can possibly fly at all, nor do I think it should.

Other nitpicks: 1 million per taxpayer is a LOT of money. $200k would be a more reasonable (ballpark) figure. Anyone who's accumulated more than that and can't afford to pay it even after a $200k reduction is in over their heads and needs to get a butt-raping.

Yeah, that's alot of money, but so is 700 Billion. Mostly I'm trying to point out a contrasting idea.

On a more abstract level, I'm not comfortable with the way that this would basically legitimize the folks who have consistently spent beyond their means. I understand that floating these people may be necessary to keep the economy afloat, but we have to be careful about basically telling these folks that we're willing to bail them out even though they've been stupid.

Neither am I, and I'm not too comfortable with the bailout plan as it is now. Those stupid people should be on a short leash any way. The good thing is it would kind of reward those of us who spend wisely as we would have more money left.

Finally, I don't pretend to have all the answers here; I merely offer my thoughts on things for consideration. I assert no authority or expertise.

Me either, I'm just a dumb ol' redneck hillbilly.

Edited September 26, 2008 by NuTcAsE

[NuTcAsE]

Maybe I am missing something here, or I just didnt get enough sleep last night or coffee this morning, but...

138,893,908 people x $1,000,000 = $138,893,908,000,000.

$138,893,908,000,000 - $700,000,000,000 = 138,193,908,000,000.

Where is that extra 138 Trillion dollars going to come from?

The same place the 700 Bill. will come from.... Welfare and foreign aid would be a good place to start.

LOL, damned zeroes.....

Edited September 26, 2008 by NuTcAsE

[Guest nraforlife]

How about paying off everyones credit debts and then outlawing credit companies. GO to a no loan basis. Pay in cash or take a hike

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

How about paying off everyones credit debts and then outlawing credit companies. GO to a no loan basis. Pay in cash or take a hike

I'd like to own a house before I'm 40, thank you very much.

Besides, the last thing we need is the .gov telling us more stuff we can't do.

[BrasilNuts]

If every U.S. taxpayer becomes and instant millionaire you would see the prices of all items go through the roof. People would be in a mad rush to spend and it would be just like we saw here a few weeks ago with the gas.

After I paid off my meager dept I would head south for a while... 1 million goes a long way down there.

[strickj]

Two words! Stu Pid!

If everyone was millionaires,then who would make my Big Mac!

[fury2neon]

Two words! Stu Pid!

If everyone was millionaires,then who would make my Big Mac!

The same illigal aliens that are making them now, duh!

[Guest abailey362]

The same illigal aliens that are making them now, duh!

no cause the dems would want $2 mil for the illegals...so they can send half back home to their families to help them get to america.....so much for $1 mil going a long way down south.

and +1 to the cost of EVERYTHING going up. a $250k house would now cost $4 mil and everyone would just have to take out even bigger loans....we'd be like the old mexican peso system very soon where it took 10k to buy a burrito

[ukerduker]

(FYI, Got this in an email)

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

(FYI, Got this in an email)

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

I have a better idea. Send whoever wrote this email back to elementary school to learn basic arithmetic.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425.

[strickj]

I have a better idea. Send whoever wrote this email back to elementary school to learn basic arithmetic.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425.

So basically what he is wanting to do is another Economic Stimulus Plan check,but for only 425.00 instead of the original 600 bucks

Now that I will agree to!

[ukerduker]

I have a better idea. Send whoever wrote this email back to elementary school to learn basic arithmetic.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425.

OOOOOK, so much for that solution. It's not like I read these emails. I just look for the attached pictures.

[NuTcAsE]

OOOOOK, so much for that solution. It's not like I read these emails. I just look for the attached pictures.

Yeah EasilyObsessed is good at those Zeroes! It's easy to forget one.

But, it made me realize the magnitude of this whole mess.

Here's what we're lookin at:

Last year the Fed took in 2,568 billion. That's 2,568 and (9) zeroes 2,568,000,000,000.

We spent $2,730 billion, generating a total deficit of $162 billion

The 700 billion is over a 1/4 of last year's income.

This is more than the government spent on defense ($549 billion), Social Security ($581 billion), or Medicare and Medicaid ($561 billion) last year.

And on top of all that the national debt is:

9,853,040,736,064.89

9 trillion, 853 billion ,40 million, 736 thousand, 64 dollars, and 89 cents.